Topic: edirol r-09 in the real world: a rant!

[pgoelz]

I'd have to agree with you.... if the levels as reported by the display went from something to zero in an instant, this sounds like a software issue.  I can think of several things that could cause a sudden loss of sound but nothing that could cause the level indication to go to zero other than pressing and holding the level button.  And like you said, that would stairstep down.  I'd call Roland and see if you can talk to someone.  Not good.  And even more interesting that yours seems to be the first reported case? 

Paul

[uspino]

floete, I'm a journalist myself so I can feel your pain. I'm constantly looking for the perfect device, and so far the R-09 is the best I've used. I also wish it would have a slightly better design, a tiny loudspeaker and, above all, some simple editing functions. Just being able to crop a file would be a dream for us quote-hungry journalists. I can't go with the Nagra because I love being able to record to SD cards. And I agree with you: how can we go back to tape or MD when we have been spoiled with the beautiful R-09?

Good luck next time.

[divamum]

Not sure if this is any kind of clue or not, but I discovered (thankfully when running the unit as a TEST) that if there is anything at all plugged into the mic in socket, it will set itself to external mic and if there ISN"T actaully a mic running you record.... white noise. i had intended to leave an L adapter in there for when I use external mics but clearly that won't work.

Is it possible the menu somehow got switched to "external mic" during recording? Seems unlikely, but.....

Just musings.

[floete]

well, a call to edirol proved fruitless: "I have no explanation for that, honestly," the tech fellow said.  "I really don't know what's going on."

for further edification, here are two cool edit screen shots, one of the whole recording, the next a close up of the cut off point.  maybe somebody will see something in these that i don't.  i do note, however, that in the big picture, the levels midway through seem to go to the max, then drop to about halfway for about 15 minutes, then cut out altogether.  hmmm.  thoughts, anyone?

[divamum]

Very weird. Doesn't this suggest some kind of actual malfunction, especially since it's now down it more than once? 

As a new R09 owner, I'm definitely following this.....  Be interested to see what further response Edirol has (did you send them the screenshots?)

[pgoelz]

At the cutoff point, I see the level drop to a very low level.  But then it comes back up...... but is recording noise instead of mic audio?  That looks more like an internal problem in the audio path and is not what I would expect to see if the level control was actually at zero. 

Was the AGC on?  If so, something could have failed and caused it to reduce the level. 

What that looks the most like is what you would see if something shut off the mic power.  Or disconnected the mics altogether. 

Are you SURE the level display said zero after this happened?

Paul

[floete]

hi paul: the cut-off point is at around the 1:09 mark.  is that what you're looking at?  when i look at it all i see is flat line until the end of this particular recording. 

nope, agc was never on.

i'm not *exactly* sure that the level read zero but certainly if it'd read 1 i would have gotten something recorded, instead of nothing.

btw / wouldn't it make a kind of sense to have  the lowest possible level input setting be 1 instead of zero?  baring that, what i'd really like to see is an internal menu option that'd allow me to specify a lowest level input setting, which would hopefully keep this kind of thing from happening.  otoh, if it is a malfunction, all bets are off.

i'm going to email the pix to roland and see what they say, if anything.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I agree that the 0 mute option should not be on the scale.. We've discussed this in the threads before. It IS a problem waiting to happen if you're changing levels without looking.  It would be nice if there was an option to change it.. Though I'm not sure we'll ever get one.  Edirol seems to do their products pretty well the first time, declare them DONE and move on (only releasing essential bug fixes).

FYI, I measured mute on the r09 as about -58dB. It is not a total mute. So if you were getting input, there's a chance something may be buried in the noise.

[floete]

you're right, freelunch -- if i take the dead zone and use cool edit to add full strength amplication, i do get a reading at -59dB.  sadly, it's complete and total noise.  thanks for the thought, though!

[pgoelz]

Sorry, I didn't see the flat line after the end of audio.  I was looking at the dip at the 0:55:00 mark. 

If you expand that point, does it indeed go to zero in an instant?  You might be able to glean something by looking very closely sample by sample at the point where it drops.  However, -50dB or so of white noise sounds to me like a LOT more than you would have if the level went to zero.  Sounds more like an internal failure before the mic pre. 

Paul

[floete]

hi paul et al:

here are two close ups of the instant where it drops down to what i'm calling zero:





to me they look as flat line as you can get.  that said, maybe there's noise there that's only apparant at full amplication.  in any event, here is what roland technical support has to say:

"If your AGC is set to OFF, your source signal is unchanging and the level is dropping without manually adjusting the input gain then it sounds like your R-09 needs service. Please call our customer service department at 323-890 3700 ext 2289 to make arrangements."

next step -- another call to roland.  will keep ya'll posted!

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I recall that the r09 makes a small noise when the gain is adjusted.  Perhaps you can familiarize yourself with that sound, verify that you can hear it elsewhere and then listen for it in the suspect zone?

[sleepypedro]

"If your AGC is set to OFF, your source signal is unchanging and the level is dropping without manually adjusting the input gain then it sounds like your R-09 needs service. Please call our customer service department at 323-890 3700 ext 2289 to make arrangements."

while they have it, ask them to strengthen the solder connection for the line input jack to prevent imminent failure.

you want a real world rant?  saturday night, i broke my THIRD r09 input jack.  after having line input #2 break, i've been babying this one at unprecedented levels.  guess what?  can't change the fact that it's a poorly designed POS if it's that prone to in-field failure when used with external mics.

roland customer support leaves a lot to be desired as well.  good luck!

[BlackLab]

I am surprised a reporter would use one. I keep reading how fragile these units are

[divamum]

Something happened yesterday which made me think of this thread.

Were you by any chance keeping it in a Treo phone case?  I used mine yesterday and as I was setting the levels (with the case on, iow pushign the buttons through the elastic sides) I set them and stopped.... and it kept going. Clearly the elastic was tight enough to keep the button "contact" in the pushed position so it kept changing it. I took it out of the case and it immediately stopped.  No problem with it when I recorded the performance (another great tape using the INTERNAL mics - I'm just gobsmacked by the quality it gives me!)

It's a longshot, but I thought it worth posting what had happened as a heads up for anybody else using that case.  I plan to cut holes for those buttons to avoid any further problem.

FWIW.