Topic: V3s>744s Is it just me?

[gratefulphish]

I have seen a bunch of rigs lately, where people are running V3s into 744s.  Am I missing something here, or wouldn't just about any bit bucket do the trick, as long as it could patch out of the V3?  I could see a V2 maybe, but I am not sure that I would have spent the extra $ on the 744, unless I was going to take advantage of its pres and A/D.  I opted for an R-4 Pro, and am considering a V3, but I am going to borrow one, so that I can field compare first.

[Kyle]

V3 analog out > SD744 =

[bkirby]

I think a lot of people already had V3s before the SD boxes came out. With the lack of V2s on the used market, better to keep the V3 until a V2 shows up. I have been casually looking for a V2 for a while now, but no real luck!

[Shawn]

I have seen a bunch of rigs lately, where people are running V3s into 744s.  Am I missing something here, or wouldn't just about any bit bucket do the trick, as long as it could patch out of the V3?  I could see a V2 maybe, but I am not sure that I would have spent the extra $ on the 744, unless I was going to take advantage of its pres and A/D.  I opted for an R-4 Pro, and am considering a V3, but I am going to borrow one, so that I can field compare first.

I could be wrong, but I think the 744 only have 2 pres in it, so if you want to run 4 channel you have to run an external pre.

[sygdwm]

I have seen a bunch of rigs lately, where people are running V3s into 744s.  Am I missing something here, or wouldn't just about any bit bucket do the trick, as long as it could patch out of the V3?  I could see a V2 maybe, but I am not sure that I would have spent the extra $ on the 744, unless I was going to take advantage of its pres and A/D.  I opted for an R-4 Pro, and am considering a V3, but I am going to borrow one, so that I can field compare first.

I could be wrong, but I think the 744 only have 2 pres in it, so if you want to run 4 channel you have to run an external pre.

correct.

[scb]

the V3 is way more pre than the V2.
I'll take real meters over a single flashing, color changing led any day of the week.
The trim feature on the V2 sucks my nut-sack.
I sold my V2, and have no interest in going backwards.

but the meters are in th digital realm.  if you're using the v3 as a pre only, those meters won't do anything for you

[terrapinj]

the V3 is way more pre than the V2.
I'll take real meters over a single flashing, color changing led any day of the week.
The trim feature on the V2 sucks my nut-sack.
I sold my V2, and have no interest in going backwards.

are those meters really necessary with the 722 meters? - i haven't run a v3 so I can't compare but it seems to me that the v2/722 are a perfect match together - what don't you like about the v2 trim knobs?

[ethan]

I think a lot of people already had V3s before the SD boxes came out. With the lack of V2s on the used market, better to keep the V3 until a V2 shows up. I have been casually looking for a V2 for a while now, but no real luck!

Although I haven't moved on from my V2>AD1K ( have two working AD1K's now) I will never get rid of my V2...it's just too useful.

[bkirby]

are those meters really necessary with the 722 meters? - i haven't run a v3 so I can't compare but it seems to me that the v2/722 are a perfect match together - what don't you like about the v2 trim knobs?

The V2 trim knobs are actually decreasing (in 1db increments) the gain that was already established on the large knobs (essentially padding the signal). The V3 small knobs actually add gain in 1db increments. I never used the V2 trim knobs, and I still wouldn't use them running into the 722. I would set the gain in 5db increments (using the larger knobs) closest to my liking on the V2 or V3, and add the couple extra db (if needed) by using the 722 knobs! Basically the way I have to run it with the M148!!! Just my $0.02...

[terrapinj]

the V3 is way more pre than the V2.
I'll take real meters over a single flashing, color changing led any day of the week.
The trim feature on the V2 sucks my nut-sack.
I sold my V2, and have no interest in going backwards.

are those meters really necessary with the 722 meters? - i haven't run a v3 so I can't compare but it seems to me that the v2/722 are a perfect match together - what don't you like about the v2 trim knobs?

the V2 attenuates signal if you trim it, and it also reduces headroom.
The V3 adds gain, positively.
To run at unity requires a little fudging. The 722 inputs are slightly sensitive, so, you need to attenuate slightly at the 722, and back the gain down to below 0db gain, and, or, slightly less output from the V3.
I prefered to get the gain from the V3, so I'll back the 722 off, and run the V3 at proper analog output.

In actuality, I have not run the V3 in many months (since june06 / Seda-Kourosh). I've grown accustomed to, and, like the 722's slight bit more 'punch' from the onboard pre's. So the grace has just been ballast in my gear bag, and not been used much.
I don't want to take a bath on the $$ value of the V3, so I'll hold onto it.

which reminds me I still don't think i've tracked out that Kourosh show and given you a copy - i'll get to it eventually 

[ts]

the V3 is way more pre than the V2.
I'll take real meters over a single flashing, color changing led any day of the week.
The trim feature on the V2 sucks my nut-sack.
I sold my V2, and have no interest in going backwards.

ditto

[ts]

I use it as an analog pre all the time, and its dead on accurate as far as analog meters.
I don't think that I've used it more than once in the last two years, as a digitizing preamp.

light up the greens, and flicker the first amber, and you can run in perfect unity.

ditto . Exactly what I've been doing with all my cassette transfers and taping to ofcourse plus it's great for patchers, that are friends

[balou2]

I got nothin' to add, but this is a great thread.  Thanks for all the info.

[F.O.Bean]

are those meters really necessary with the 722 meters? - i haven't run a v3 so I can't compare but it seems to me that the v2/722 are a perfect match together - what don't you like about the v2 trim knobs?

The V2 trim knobs are actually decreasing (in 1db increments) the gain that was already established on the large knobs (essentially padding the signal). The V3 small knobs actually add gain in 1db increments. I never used the V2 trim knobs, and I still wouldn't use them running into the 722. I would set the gain in 5db increments (using the larger knobs) closest to my liking on the V2 or V3, and add the couple extra db (if needed) by using the 722 knobs! Basically the way I have to run it with the M148!!! Just my $0.02...

this is exactly what i do too brad!

and as for the v2 being a step backwards, i dunno about that, the v2 has ALL locking xlr connectors including the 4-pin xlr for my battery setup, that way all rt-angle can be achieved easily

and the sound is right there with the v3 IMO, just diff gain structures, and the v2 gets ALOT of battery life, just like running the v3 analog only(like i did all summer) to conserve battery power because the ADC wasnt being used, like moke is saying.

[gratefulphish]

Why, that's impossible!  Everyone knows the 722 pre can't run standalone

That's why I started this thread.  I was trying to figure out why people were spending $2-4,000 on 722s and 744s, and still running external pres and A/Ds.  Will there EVER be a device that will have the pres and A/Ds that "inquiring ears want to hear", so that we can just carry one single piece of gear with a battery?  Excluding mics, stand, cables, etc. etc.

[Wiggler]

Why, that's impossible!  Everyone knows the 722 pre can't run standalone

That's why I started this thread.  I was trying to figure out why people were spending $2-4,000 on 722s and 744s, and still running external pres and A/Ds.  Will there EVER be a device that will have the pres and A/Ds that "inquiring ears want to hear", so that we can just carry one single piece of gear with a battery?  Excluding mics, stand, cables, etc. etc.

Another choice for about the same price as a V3 plus a 744 you could get a Nagra V.

[ghellquist]

I was trying to figure out why people were spending $2-4,000 on 722s and 744s, and still running external pres and A/Ds.  Will there EVER be a device that will have the pres and A/Ds that "inquiring ears want to hear", so that we can just carry one single piece of gear with a battery?  Excluding mics, stand, cables, etc. etc.

That is exactly what I do as well as a lot of other people. The pres are good. In objective listening tests there is very little difference between the 722 pres and the V3...

IF...

if you use the 722 pres in their sweet spot. It is below -12dB -- blinking yellow lights, never any red lights. The V3 has a different sweet spot -- up close to zero with blinking red lights.

People that are used to the V3 or running old time 16 bit equipment try to run the 722 the same way and end up outside the sweet spot. The difference in volume is very easily handled in post production on your PC. Once the volume has been normalized I bet very few living persons can reliably detect the difference. Very few. You may check this thread, the main difference is difference in levels (it has been proven in numerous tests that the ear always preferr the stronger signal):
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,75230.0.html

Regardless, there is a difference if your ears hear it which is really all it takes. But perfectly pristine perfect recordings can be done with only the 722 and a good stereo mic setup.

Gunnar

[sygdwm]

Will there EVER be a device that will have the pres and A/Ds that "inquiring ears want to hear", so that we can just carry one single piece of gear with a battery?  Excluding mics, stand, cables, etc. etc.

marantz pmd 671 modded by the oade's.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

marantz pmd 671 modded by the oade's.

Except that it doesn't have enough gain for acoustic stuff, right?

Anyone posted a comp of the stock 671 vs the oade?  Same for the ACM P2. It seems like I never see the comps but would like to hear them..  Preferably no PA and live music only.

[china_rider]

Will there EVER be a device that will have the pres and A/Ds that "inquiring ears want to hear", so that we can just carry one single piece of gear with a battery?  Excluding mics, stand, cables, etc. etc.

[/quote]

Hard to say considering that 'what inquiring ears want to hear.' is different between many people.  After taping about 20 shows with it, I'm very happy with my busman mod R-4 with no pre in front of it.  Can't wait to hear it when it comes back with his new lower gain mod.

[F.O.Bean]

I think the 722 can hold its own as an all-in-one box with the right pair of mics that is

I think if i had to sell my v2 id be perfectly happy, i just prefer the grace>722 sound. and preamps to us are like shoes to women, i like having a few preamps to run with Options are a great thing...

[gratefulphish]

Well, I have a loaner V3 that I will try to compare, head to head, with direct in to my R-4 Pro (Busman Mod)  I would love to NOT carry one more piece of equipment, plus battery and cable.  The sound will tell.

[F.O.Bean]

I also like running the 722 line-in because it saves alot of power too. last moedown i ran just 481>722 one day and the next just 483>722 quite happy, especially with the 483>722 sound but the batts were a bitch to keep charged and all that jazz, thank god for them letting me charge at the tent stage

BUT, I wish I wouldve ran my v3 instead I only ran it a few sets on teh first day with some 140's and some mg 200's. i think the tapes wouldve come out better, it seems the v3 smooths everything out over the whole spectrum, which i like alot Its like it always picks the right things to pickup out of the musical spectrum. No matter what mics I shall be running. I think grace>722 will be behind it for quite some time

[BobW]

...so that we can just carry one single piece of gear with a battery?  Excluding mics, stand, cables, etc. etc.

Perhaps the Sonosax Mini R82 ?

[baustin]

the V3 is way more pre than the V2.
I'll take real meters over a single flashing, color changing led any day of the week.
The trim feature on the V2 sucks my nut-sack.
I sold my V2, and have no interest in going backwards.

but the meters are in th digital realm. if you're using the v3 as a pre only, those meters won't do anything for you

1 - Can anybody elaborate on this?

2 - For those of you running V3~>Analog~>7xx, where do you set your levels? -6 on the 744t?

[thegreatgumbino]

the V3 is way more pre than the V2.
I'll take real meters over a single flashing, color changing led any day of the week.
The trim feature on the V2 sucks my nut-sack.
I sold my V2, and have no interest in going backwards.

but the meters are in th digital realm. if you're using the v3 as a pre only, those meters won't do anything for you

1 - Can anybody elaborate on this?

2 - For those of you running V3~>Analog~>7xx, where do you set your levels? -6 on the 744t?

1) The V3 meters work just fine, you just have to change your thought process since the analog output of the V3 doesn't match the numbering on the face (digital). 

2) Run the 7xx levels at "0" and use your V3 for the gain.  This keeps the 7xx in unity (no pre).

See this thread for some good discussion and elaboration on the issue of V3 (analog) > 7xx.