Topic: Lip of stage techniques?

[Since85]

Hi,

For those of you who do more than a bit of lip of stage microphone recording......

What polar pattern is most preferred, and with what type of positioning setup?

Will cardioids @ ORTF work well? Another pattern? What about hypers and positioning?


Lastly, how high do you want the stand to be? Obviously you do not want to block the band, but would, say 2.5 feet be sufficient?

Thanks!

[terrapinj]

for stage lip/onstage i have had really great results with ORTF - many people like to run XY as well but i've never really been much of a fan. you can probably get great results with most stereo techniques so don't be afraid to try something different. If you have the capabilities blumlein sounds really nice at the stage lip IMO. never run hypers at stage lip, but I have others have mixed results. Wide cards (sub card) or split omnis can be very nice depending how loud the crowd is gonna be 

i usually try to set up so I am centered with the drum kit and go about waist high, maybe lower depending on sight lines. also, be aware that you will generally get minimal vocals, although you can sometimes pick up a decent bit from the monitors depending

[Since85]

Great advice, +T and a big thanks!!

[Patrick]

ORTF, NOS, and Midside are all great configs to run stage lip.  I'd stick with cards or sub cards, I've never really run hypers on stage but then again, I don't own hyper caps.  You'll be getting a lot of potentially good sounding music from the stage and a card/subcard pattern run wider than usual can SMOKE if the situation is right for it.

Depending on how big/how high the stage is built, you'll want to keep your mics maybe a little higher than the amps/drums on stage.  You don't want to be in the line of fire of a guitar amp, crash cymbal, anything for that matter.  Keeping your mics a little bit above these sound sources will provide a much more tolerable mix.

Be careful of monitors.  These can either ruin a tape or make it great.  Most of the times they are nothing but loud and distorted speakers that do nothing but add uneccesary stage noise, and therefore making it hard to make a good tape.

Good luck!  

[F.O.Bean]

I run Cards/DIN or ORTF depending on band/setup/venue

I tend to keep the mics about level to the top of the kick drum on teh drum set. about that high anyway. you want to be high enough to get over the stage monitors but not so high that you arent picking up some of the stage monitors as well

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

Cards ORTF all the way baby unless your talking split omnis which sound great but only in full rooms from my experience.

[bluevolvo]

as usual depends on alot doesn't it?

i think i prefer 414's M/S on the lip and split omni's ["decca"] matrix - with a chic singer on acoustic 

[balou2]

While not a "standard" technique, I've gotten GREAT results with split cards.  Often you'll have a fatty monitor setup dfc onstage, so I've opted to go 12" on either side and found some monumental sound.  Just consider the size of the stage.  Smaller stage = "bigger" sound, so you can split a little easier.

[Nick's Picks]

I'll be different.
the closer I am to the source..the more i'm running some kind of coincident pattern.  XY if farther back...(but close, close close to stage lip)...and even on stage.
blumlien or M-S smokes on stage.  my favorite.

it depends on what you have for mics.  Currently, having only cards and no stereo mic, if I"m lip or on stage, its XY at 110deg.
I'm of the opinion that coincident stereo recording yields the best sonic "images" in terms of sound location on playback.  And since thats what I like... so thats how I run.

but honestly, when you are on top of the band like that, anything will sound good.  Its about how good your stereo is, your ear is, and your experience w/your gear.  A little time w/all of these factors and you'll have your own "go to" method.

try it all!  set breaks are your friend.

[F.O.Bean]

I'll be different.
the closer I am to the source..the more i'm running some kind of coincident pattern.  XY if farther back...(but close, close close to stage lip)...and even on stage.
blumlien or M-S smokes on stage.  my favorite.

it depends on what you have for mics.  Currently, having only cards and no stereo mic, if I"m lip or on stage, its XY at 110deg.
I'm of the opinion that coincident stereo recording yields the best sonic "images" in terms of sound location on playback.  And since thats what I like... so thats how I run.

but honestly, when you are on top of the band like that, anything will sound good.  Its about how good your stereo is, your ear is, and your experience w/your gear.  A little time w/all of these factors and you'll have your own "go to" method.

try it all!  set breaks are your friend.

Nick, do you have any GREAT mod461/3>MMP recordings yet that I could hear? anything on archive.org perhaps that I could stream

[Nick's Picks]

nope.  I've only used the mics twice.  thats going to change soon though.  I have a shitload of good shows coming up in July.
that DSO show came out pretty good, imo...and I could send you that if you'd like. 

[Nick's Picks]

Oh...and if you ever want to play w/my MR1.  lemme know.  I'd love to spread the joy of these sweet fucking boxes.

[Gedit]

i do a lot of stage lip recordings .. ORTF as mentioned above.

[gratefulphish]

I have found from doing many on stage recordings that the mic placement is more important than any particular configuration.  The concept that mics need to be dead center, with a fixed pattern, just does not work in many small venue settings.  If your stand ends up dead center, three feet from the drum kit, you are not going to be pleased, especially if the guitar amp is far left or right, with a bass player between the drums and guitar.  The bass from both the bass drum and bass amp can just kill the guitar sound.  I will frequently set up off-center in those situations, and adjust mic angles accordingly.  As someone else mentioned above, I sometimes use two stands, and split the mics, particularly to avoid the center drum/bass issue.  Again, depending on how shallow the stage is, and/or how close to the lip amps and drums are located, I will run at card when they are back further, but usually subcard the rest of the time.

[F.O.Bean]

I have found from doing many on stage recordings that the mic placement is more important than any particular configuration.  The concept that mics need to be dead center, with a fixed pattern, just does not work in many small venue settings.  If your stand ends up dead center, three feet from the drum kit, you are not going to be pleased, especially if the guitar amp is far left or right, with a bass player between the drums and guitar.  The bass from both the bass drum and bass amp can just kill the guitar sound.  I will frequently set up off-center in those situations, and adjust mic angles accordingly.  As someone else mentioned above, I sometimes use two stands, and split the mics, particularly to avoid the center drum/bass issue.  Again, depending on how shallow the stage is, and/or how close to the lip amps and drums are located, I will run at card when they are back further, but usually subcard the rest of the time.

totally agreed, i just give pattern names for reference. many times i have recorded onstage/stage-lip, I am not dead center in the middle of the stage. I setup where there is going to be an equal amount fo music coming into each mic. many times onstage mic setups look very weird, cause they are just that, they are not your typical DIN/DINa/ORTF setup usually. you just have to go with the layout of the stage/band and go from there.