Topic: Best Portable Recorder for Concert shows

[colors]

just inquired about some c4's.  they look nice.  Also I have been looking at boundary mics .  How are the crowns?

[NOLAfishwater]

If you don't have vocals, boundry mics are the way to go for Jazz.   Get two boundry mics (perhaps the Audio Technica -U851R)  and a Marantz PMD660.

This way you can place the mics unobtrusivly, on-stage, in any possition you desire.  With the package I described below you dont need a mic stand or cables....

2- U851R = $300
1- Marantz PMD660 = $425
 

Agreed. It is super easy to use but you have to get it modified for it to sound good. There are a couple of them on the yard sale right now.

[Javier Cinakowski]

crowns are really good boundry (PZM) mics.  Audio Technica is another good one...

IMO
boundry mics->PMD 600,

doesn't get any easier than that.


Give a good look at the Audio Technica U851R.  The have interchangable capsules with omni, card and hyper.  They use the same capsules as the well respected AT853 mics...

[illconditioned]

crowns are really good boundry (PZM) mics.  Audio Technica is another good one...

IMO
boundry mics->PMD 600,

doesn't get any easier than that.


Give a good look at the Audio Technica U851R.  The have interchangable capsules with omni, card and hyper.  They use the same capsules as the well respected AT853 mics...

I would recommend "standard" mics.  Even AT853, before the boundary.  You can get good sound from these, but it is a little more tricky.  You never know how they will sound... unless you put your ear way down on the ground and listen, I suppose...

Since you already know where the "sweet spot" is, just get a good set of condensers and go from there...

  Richard

[Nick's Picks]

same.

now, I dont know if it will do the trick, but perhaps one of the ZOOM recorders, or the upcoming Sony PCM-D50 would be the total solution for you.

read up.
have fun!
zoom h4
zoom h2
sony pcm-d50

but if you're going condensers, you need phantom power in the preamp/recorder you will be using.
A lot more than you want to spend, but an Edirol R4 coupled with a pair of SP C4 condensers, and you'd be "future proof", for your endeavors.
you might be able to put that together for a grand

[Arni99]

for stealth-recording MY best recorder(best internal preamp on line-in) is the sony mz-rh1 hi-md recorder.
i had 2 edirol r09(got faulty- mic input... 2 times), iriver h120, zoom h2(had only 1 channel on line-in...).

my rh1 hi-md recorder survived them all and pulled the best sounding recordings.

am sure the new sony pcm-d50 will be top notch too, without the 94min55seconds PCM WAV limit of HI-MD and the sonic-stage transfer dilemma(which I don´t mind at all).

[attheshow]

Yeah, the MZ-RH1 is sweet. It's so small, light, and sounds so good. I keep talking myself out of "upgrading". If only HiMD discs could store 2 meg instead on one... then it would be perfect.

And if you're on Mac the HiMD transfer software on Mac OSX is great!

[Nick's Picks]

for some reason...all MD preamps pretty much smoke all of our "high end" hand held recorders.
always have.

that is why even the older ATRAC MDs still pulled great recordings w/a pair of cheap mics running right into them.


that said..
I think either the zoom H2 or the upcoming Sony ...placed "in the sweet spot" or on stage / stage lip, will give you what you need and do it with the least amount of hassle.  Though nobody has heard one, i'm guessing the sony will be the best sounding unit of the pack.
the Zoom offers various recording options that the sony will not.
the sony will have better mics.
the zoom might be more flexible.

you'll have to research and then weigh your options, but I do think this is the way to go for you.

[Jammin72]

The Fostex FR2LE sounds damn good for a stock box.  Going rate on ebay is about $450 shipped, no need for a mod even for very loud recordings, onboard phantom power, and a rock solid file system that seems to be usable with most flash memory cards. It's line in should be able to take the output from virtually any SBD without worry, something the more consumer based products may take issue with. Later you can get it moded if you so desire, upgrade mics or even get a small mixer to mix the sub group outs from your board with your audience mics.

A really great choice IMO for what you're doing.

[Javier Cinakowski]

I would recommend "standard" mics.  Even AT853, before the boundary.  You can get good sound from these, but it is a little more tricky.  You never know how they will sound... unless you put your ear way down on the ground and listen, I suppose...

Since you already know where the "sweet spot" is, just get a good set of condensers and go from there...

  Richard

I disagree.  I find it easier to pull a good recording with a pair of boundary’s than a typical stereo pair. (on-stage especially)  The boundary eliminates a good bit of reverberant reflections taking one variable out of the equation.  How often has a recording you made with a typical stereo pair sound the same as it did at the show?  The mics capture a different sound and the same thing for boundary mic.  Respectfully, I don't see your point.  Another bonus with boundary mics is placement can be made anywhere on stage, unobtrusively. 

Now, I wouldn't use a boundary away from the stage unless there was some huge wall located perfectly in the sweet spot...

Here are 2 samples of the same band.  The first is from a pair of AT853's in ortf/stage-lip.  The second is a pair of U851R boundary’s placed 8' apart on stage.  Now, both recordings are acceptable, perhaps the 853 better, however the boundary is a much simpler and unobtrusive solution for a musician trying to record himself.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/MP3files/PRODUCTS/sp-cmc-8ls.mp3    (at943/U853c->CA9100->Oade SBM-1->iRiver)
http://www.treespine.com/rig/rig_files/grimace2007-10-29s105.flac            (U851R->Oade PMD660)

[Krispy D]

If you don't have vocals, boundry mics are the way to go for Jazz.   Get two boundry mics (perhaps the Audio Technica -U851R)  and a Marantz PMD660.

This way you can place the mics unobtrusivly, on-stage, in any possition you desire.  With the package I described below you dont need a mic stand or cables....

2- U851R = $300
1- Marantz PMD660 = $425
 

Ding Ding Ding!  that's what I was gonna say.  (Fred must be really smart!    )

[illconditioned]

for some reason...all MD preamps pretty much smoke all of our "high end" hand held recorders.
always have.

that is why even the older ATRAC MDs still pulled great recordings w/a pair of cheap mics running right into them.

I agree.  MD seem to work great for quiet recordings and/or low output mics.  The self-noise is very low.  For louder stuff I have a slight preference for the R09 preamp, but the MD preamps are really quite good.  And certainly better than using anything like NJB3 or iRiver line input.

  Richard

[kuuan]

many good advices given, maybe the R09 and some fitting Mics to be found in the yardsale? Wish you good luck Rogueleader, and see, the best hint could be this one:

where do you live at? In keeping with the poster above, maybe there is a taper in the area who'd record some gigs and help set you up?

Do get your own gear and record, but you just may have an experienced taper around who has fun trying to do his best and from whom you can learn a lot, and chances that are you'll have much better recordings. You said you want to make money, well, maybe the taper wanted too, but maybe not, having fun.

best luck,
kuuan

[Ozpeter]

If only HiMD discs could store 2 meg instead on one... then it would be perfect.

You get seven hours of 256kbps on one Hi-MD disc and that's convertible to wave on download - chances of being able to hear the difference between that and "original' wave format are slim (heh, at risk of starting a long debate!).

The H2's four mics recorded onto separate stereo tracks do give you a great deal of options when mixing them down afterwards, and they enable you to get a very spacious sound if you want - for me, a simple crossed pair of cardioids always sounds kind of flat.

[fmaderjr]

I couldn't agree more with with Ozpeter. I do most of my MZ-RH1 recordings at 256 (Hi SP) because I never need to change the disk. The recordings sound fabulous and nothing is better for stealth. I keep the machine in my shirt pocket and can easily see and change levels if necessary. I cut a hole in the shirt pocket for the mic cable and hide the mics in my hat. Nobody can ever tell I'm recording. I usually go line in with the tiny Church audio battery box also in my shirt pocket, but the mic preamps are supposed to be quite good as well. I would guess that the MZ-RH1 at 256 (let alone wave) will make better sounding recordings than either of the ZOOMs at 24/44.1 or higher. From what I've read on the Zoom forum, they seem to have a lot of limitations.