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Offline guitard

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MK41 config
« on: September 13, 2023, 02:33:16 PM »
I hate asking stupid questions, but ...

I am in the market for a stand and t-bar to use with my rig that includes MK41s.  While looking around at various bars and mounts, I saw this hat mount for MK41Vs:



And it surprised me because my first thought was that if you wear this in the front of your hat, the mics will be pointing away from the sound source.  So now for the (potentially really stupid) question - should I be pointing my MK41s in the same directions?  If that's the case, I've literally been pointing them the wrong way.  But I know that MK41s and MK41V are two different mics, so maybe I'm not as stupid as I first thought (fingers crossed!).  Basically, I've just been positioning them so that they are (generally) pointed forward and positioned on either side of the front part of my kangaroo.  Of course, the NBobs and caps are positioned horizontally.
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline todd e

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2023, 02:52:19 PM »
imagine a kangol being worn backwards... 8)  (i.e. samuel jackson)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2023, 02:56:57 PM by todd e »

Offline goodcooker

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2023, 03:13:38 PM »

The MK41V is side address - the diaphragm is mounted in the middle of the vented housing facing the side so sound enters through the side vents

Your MK41 is end address - the capsule is mounted near the end facing the vents on the end so sound enters where you have it pointed.

I would not use this mount for 41s - it's intended specifically for the vertically mounted mk41V - keep doing what you have been doing.

My favorite mounting setup for the 41s was a Vark bar, Schoeps SGC mini clips and a A20 mount to hold the vertical attachment for the bar.
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Offline guitard

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2023, 07:03:16 PM »

The MK41V is side address - the diaphragm is mounted in the middle of the vented housing facing the side so sound enters through the side vents

Your MK41 is end address - the capsule is mounted near the end facing the vents on the end so sound enters where you have it pointed.

I would not use this mount for 41s - it's intended specifically for the vertically mounted mk41V - keep doing what you have been doing.

My favorite mounting setup for the 41s was a Vark bar, Schoeps SGC mini clips and a A20 mount to hold the vertical attachment for the bar.

Part of my ignorance is that I've literally never taped with another true taper; let alone someone who tapes with the same mics.  Having said that, thank you for letting me know my stupid question didn't turn out to be stupid!
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline guitard

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2023, 07:16:46 PM »
My favorite mounting setup for the 41s was a Vark bar, Schoeps SGC mini clips and a A20 mount to hold the vertical attachment for the bar.

Do the Schoeps SGC mini clips screw onto the Vark bar?  I looked at several websites selling those clips, but they all use the same pic and don't offer a view of the underside of the clip.

I gather you snap your MK41s into the mini clips that are attached to the Vark bar, and then adjust the direction of the mics accordingly?
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline goodcooker

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2023, 10:23:08 PM »
My favorite mounting setup for the 41s was a Vark bar, Schoeps SGC mini clips and a A20 mount to hold the vertical attachment for the bar.

Do the Schoeps SGC mini clips screw onto the Vark bar?  I looked at several websites selling those clips, but they all use the same pic and don't offer a view of the underside of the clip.

I gather you snap your MK41s into the mini clips that are attached to the Vark bar, and then adjust the direction of the mics accordingly?

Yes the sgc clips thread onto a 3/8 attachment. You thread the cable through the slot in the top of the clip then slide the little nipple base at the bottom of the capsule connector into the clip.

I don't think Vark is in business any longer so those bars may be hard to come by but MacArthur makes one a lot like it that they sell at Posthorn - https://www.posthorn.com/Macvk_4.html. It has a 20cm vertical bar that attaches in the middle then goes into a 20mm shockmount turned 90 degrees. The whole bar is shockmounted instead of the individual mics.
Line Audio CM3/OM1 || MBHO KA500 hyper>PFA|| ADK A51 type IV || AKG C522XY
Oade Warm Mod and Presence+ Mod UA5s || Aerco MP2(needs help) || Neve Portico 5012 || Apogee MMP
SD Mixpre6 || Oade Concert Mod DR100mkii

pocket sized - CA11 cards > SP SB10 > Sony PCM A10

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City
"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Online Scooter123

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2023, 12:16:17 PM »
I made an identical mount looking for MK4s (which of course fit MK41s).  I just took an old bathroom or kitchen plastic garbage can and started cutting to make a similar shape for a Kangol brim.  Its a little fussy getting the exact right shape for the hat (fits forward in the space by the brim), but with a small garbage can, you've got at least a half dozen attempts, or you can cut it oversize and trim away to get the perfect shape. 

I then drilled a series of 4-6 small (1/16th") holes on the side of the mount, each hole being about a quarter inch from the other.  The row should be oriented for the direction of the microphone either straight forward or at an outward angle.  I found the direction didn't make any audible difference for an audience tape. 

I then repeated this row about the thickness of the MK4, about an inch and a quarter.  I then repeated this on the other side of the mount.  I then added elastic waist band material (obtained from a fabric store) and sewed the elastic into the mount using stout waxed thread and using the tiny holes for the thread.  Stretch it tight before sewing. 

Holds the MK4s perfect in a Kangol. 

I can PM pictures if anyone wants. 
Regards,
Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline guitard

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2023, 01:00:33 PM »
I can PM pictures if anyone wants.

Yes please!
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline phil_er_up

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2023, 07:05:34 AM »
I can PM pictures if anyone wants.

Yes please!
Would like pictures too. Thank you!
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Offline jb63

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2023, 09:50:02 AM »
Send me those pics, too, if you don't mind. Though I can't picture wearing my hat backwards, I would give it a try!
once again, lost in all the noise

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2023, 11:10:13 AM »
Apparently, one may not send a picture, only a link, in a PM, so anyone wanting a picture of my garbage can MK4 mounting semi-circle, please PM me with your email.

It is just a semi-circle fitting under the brim of a Kangol with elastic bands holding the microphones.  The semi-circle has to be trimmed to fit the brim of your particular Kangol, but looks nearly identical to the one pictured but the microphone alignment has the mikes facing forward, not to the side. 
Regards,
Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline guitard

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2024, 01:01:00 PM »
Second row center at a Judas Priest show - with the Vs in a kangaroo Shapeways mount.  How should I orient the red dots?
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline breakonthru

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2024, 02:55:01 PM »

The MK41V is side address - the diaphragm is mounted in the middle of the vented housing facing the side so sound enters through the side vents

Your MK41 is end address - the capsule is mounted near the end facing the vents on the end so sound enters where you have it pointed.

I would not use this mount for 41s - it's intended specifically for the vertically mounted mk41V - keep doing what you have been doing.

My favorite mounting setup for the 41s was a Vark bar, Schoeps SGC mini clips and a A20 mount to hold the vertical attachment for the bar.

Part of my ignorance is that I've literally never taped with another true taper; let alone someone who tapes with the same mics.  Having said that, thank you for letting me know my stupid question didn't turn out to be stupid!
not a stupid question. in fact the 110 deg ortf mounts that are popular for end-address caps turn out to be perfect for me when "run backwards" at 70 deg for side-address caps for FOB work

Offline breakonthru

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2024, 02:55:54 PM »
Second row center at a Judas Priest show - with the Vs in a kangaroo Shapeways mount.  How should I orient the red dots?
towards the stacks

Offline guitard

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2024, 09:01:37 AM »
Second row center at a Judas Priest show - with the Vs in a kangaroo Shapeways mount.  How should I orient the red dots?
towards the stacks

It's an arena, so there won't be any stacks - just the more typical left & right hanging speaker arrays.  From second row center, those hanging speaker arrays are going to be quite a ways above my head at about 10 o'clock on the left, and 2 o'clock on the right.  Although I didn't mention it in my original post, I was already aware of this and knew that I would have to orient the red dots to point almost straight up above me if I was going to point them at the speaker arrays from that location.  I wasn't sure if that was a good idea; hence my posting my original question.
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2024, 09:26:49 AM »
Point them in the direction of wherever the clearest sound is originating.  If that's above you, so be it.  From the second row there may be secondary fill speakers directed toward that area, so look and listen for them and determine if directing toward those rather than the main PA array is the better bet.  Those fills if present might be placed low across the front of the stage, off to either side angled inward, above facing down, or incorporated into the hanging PA itself.
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Offline guitard

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2024, 10:05:22 AM »
Point them in the direction of wherever the clearest sound is originating.  If that's above you, so be it.  From the second row there may be secondary fill speakers directed toward that area, so look and listen for them and determine if directing toward those rather than the main PA array is the better bet.  Those fills if present might be placed low across the front of the stage, off to either side angled inward, above facing down, or incorporated into the hanging PA itself.

Great advice - thanks Lee.
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline guitard

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2024, 09:31:26 AM »
Point them in the direction of wherever the clearest sound is originating.  If that's above you, so be it.  From the second row there may be secondary fill speakers directed toward that area, so look and listen for them and determine if directing toward those rather than the main PA array is the better bet.  Those fills if present might be placed low across the front of the stage, off to either side angled inward, above facing down, or incorporated into the hanging PA itself.

Great advice - thanks Lee.

So, I did what I highly recommend all tapers do—I followed Lee's advice. 8)

I didn't record the opening act Sabaton, but I used their sound to try and figure out where the sound was coming from.  It wasn't very obvious, actually.  As I suspected, the speaker arrays were almost directly above my head and off to the sides—so not much of a factor.  There were wedge and side stage monitors, but all of the band members had IEMs, so I am not sure how much those monitors factored into the on-stage sound.  Although, I suspect there were other speakers on the stage; but they just weren't visible.  There were also no guitar/bass amps visible, but the guitarist on the left side of the stage was much louder in the mix than the guitarist on the right side (I was center-left of the stage).  They were likely in their normal spots, but were covered up. 

I decided to orient the red dots upward about 12-15 degrees (starting from originally being oriented straight forward).

To my ears, in spite of being in the 2nd row, there isn't much snap or clarity to the drums, or for that matter, any of the instruments.  But the vocals (somehow!) come through fairly clear.  Although, it sounds more like a stack tape to me.

Judas Priest posted this picture at their FB page from the end of the show.  If you look closely, you can see me and my grandson. 



We both shot video, which I mixed and synced with the MK41V audio.  Here's a sample:

https://youtu.be/j-YxPuO-jYE
« Last Edit: May 07, 2024, 09:33:58 AM by guitard »
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline todd e

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2024, 10:28:50 AM »
awesome pull, congrats and getting it done

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2024, 01:08:49 PM »
No mention of how the pipes on the motor scooter sounded. Boo!  :tomato: :lol:

Offline achalsey

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2024, 04:45:36 PM »
That does sound great.

Off topic of audio, but what did you use to record the video?

Offline guitard

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2024, 01:10:30 AM »
That does sound great.

Off topic of audio, but what did you use to record the video?

I shot this show with my 13 yr old grandson and we both used Panasonic ZS100s.

Here is a long thread about this camera - started by me five years ago ;D.

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=189720.0
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline achalsey

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Re: MK41 config
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2024, 11:06:47 AM »
Cool, Thanks.  That's some really solid video for a little point and shoot.

 

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