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Author Topic: Ceiling Mount Considerations?  (Read 13223 times)

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Offline wehideandseek

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2024, 04:26:51 PM »
Please humour my thrift-store mindset: Would any of these be sufficient to mount in two rooms that i don't often frequent, pull listenable tapes & wouldn't really be bummed if they got thrashed?
They'd be most likely run by two road-weary Zoom H4Ns.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174723487155

https://retrogearshop.com/products/shure-570s-pair

https://www.ebay.com/itm/126383203158

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/135000125517


ETA: Small capacity (150-300) shoebox like venues with hanging PAs (approx 25' apart with base of speakers approx 10' high). Plenty of mount options along weight-bearing beams approx 10' high running parallel to stage, approx 15' to 20' from stage)

Venue 1 (usually run ortf clamped upon on the curtain conduit directly above stage-lip, angled downwards; was thinking of centre-mounting at the second beam back from stage near disco ball, but could also mic the stacks):







Venue 2 (usually run just below the stuffed buffalo head, but thinking of mounting above it or again, at each side of PA):



« Last Edit: April 30, 2024, 08:09:11 PM by wehideandseek »
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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2024, 01:57:21 PM »
Venue 2 (usually run just below the stuffed buffalo head, but thinking of mounting above it or again, at each side of PA):

It would be fun to abuse it for a binaural recording (as a dummy head).

Offline wehideandseek

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2024, 02:03:35 PM »
BiSon of a gun, that's a great idea!

Venue 2 (usually run just below the stuffed buffalo head, but thinking of mounting above it or again, at each side of PA):

It would be fun to abuse it for a binaural recording (as a dummy head).

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2024, 03:46:33 PM »
Ha! Love the binaural bison idea!  It already looks like it's listening intently.

Careful going above the bison head. Looks like that may be right around where high-frequency vertical coverage from the PA speakers is likely to drop off. 

As mentioned in the other recent thread about installed ceiling-hung mics, I feel a pair of spaced omnis, each placed in-line with the primary listening axis of the PA speaker on each side and hung something like 4'-10' out into room is the ideal setup for this type of installed arrangement.  You get excellent clarity by being on-axis and directly in front of each PA, and that PA content will be clear, SBD-like and perceptually centered.  You get as much or as little room ambiance as you want by adjusting how far out into the room the mics are from the PA (this is the main thing you may want to go back and tweak after the first few recordings).  The wide split will provide a big, open portrayal of the room sound along with a wide, diffuse portrayal of the audience, rendering specific audience contributions less intrusive.  And the mics will be close enough to the stage to capture some of the on-stage sound and live percussion transients.

You can run a typical near-spaced stereo pair most anywhere, but not this kind of setup.  To my way of thinking that make it a good situation to take advantage of the opportunity.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2024, 01:20:57 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline wehideandseek

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2024, 01:33:23 AM »
+T/hanks Gut!

I'd love to read your opinion on the omnis linked above:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/174723487155

https://retrogearshop.com/products/shure-570s-pair

https://www.ebay.com/itm/126383203158

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/135000125517

Ha! Love the binaural bison idea!  It already looks like it's listening intently.

Careful going above the bison head. Looks like that may be right around where high-frequency vertical coverage from the PA speakers is likely to drop off. 

As mentioned in the other recent thread about installed ceiling-hung mics, I feel a pair of spaced omnis, each placed in-line with the primary listening axis of the PA speaker on each side and hung something like 4'-10' out into room is the ideal setup for this type of installed arrangement.  You get excellent clarity by being on-axis and directly in front of each PA, and that PA content will be clear, SBD-like and perceptually centered.  You get as much or as little room ambiance as you want by adjusting how far out into the room the mics are from the PA (this is the main thing you may want to go back and tweak after the first few recordings).  The wide split will provide a big, open portrayal of the room sound along with a wide, diffuse portrayal of the audience, rendering specific audience contributions less intrusive.  And the mics will be close enough to the stage to capture some of the on-stage sound and live percussion transients.

You can run a typical near-spaced stereo pair most anywhere, but you can't get away with that kind of setup everywhere.  Good situation to take advantage of this opportunity.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2024, 01:39:36 AM by wehideandseek »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2024, 12:06:38 PM »
^ I've not used or can recall hearing any of those specifically. 

But looking at the images and seeing their size I imagine the're likely to be somewhat directional in the highest frequency range, so you may want to make some effort to point them directly at the PA or toward the drum kit if possible.  However, don't let that stop you from trying hanging them from their own cables pointing straight down first, which will be the simplest to arrange and to manage.  If you decide you want to point them at the PA or drum kit, you then might play around with some coat hanger wire to bend up some little hangers to change the orientation of the mics if they are being hung from their own cables.  Same idea as the hangers for the little AT 853 mics which look like this -



The key to pointing the mic sideways using something like that is positioning the vertical cable part if it directly over the center of gravity of the mic. Biggest problem in using those is keeping the mic from rotating away from the direction you want it pointed as the cable relaxes with the mic hanging on it.  Might need to re-orient them a few times until the cables stretches out and relaxes sufficiently.  An alternative is securing the orientation using a monofilament fishing line guy wire to the rear or side but that's a PITA.  Another is hanging them from a rigid rod or tube rather than relying on the cable.

Whatever you do, make sure they're well secured and won't fall on someone below.  Keep in mind the effect of vibration over time.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline wehideandseek

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2024, 01:14:44 PM »
Thanks so very much for the time & consideration let alone wisdom & experience behind each of your replies Gut!
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Offline wehideandseek

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2024, 06:59:28 PM »
Getting close to installing a stereo pair of AKG SE300B / CK91 in the first room pictured (run as PAS or ORTF).
I'd prefer the mount be as close to the underside of the beam as possible.
Is there such a thing as a 5/8" mic thread adapter or spigot that has, for lack of a better term, an elongated self-tapping screw / thread end?

Envisioning a longer version of this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/284333-REG/Manfrotto_MIBA_Female_3_8_to_5_8.html
Or this w/ a screw end: https://www.manfrotto.com/us-en/double-end-stud-1-4-20-3-8-adapter-spigot-013/

I could always slap one of these on to a large screw, but i want it to be more flush: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546494-REG/Manfrotto_014_14_014_14_Rapid_Adapter.html

Here are the two bars i could sacrifice for such venue mounts:
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Offline admkrk

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2024, 07:24:26 PM »
I might be misunderstanding, but wouldn't a simple ratchet strap work with the second mount?
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Offline wehideandseek

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2024, 07:35:27 PM »
That's a good suggestion for something temp until i figure this out. Thanks!

ETA: perhaps even better for the Atlas bar as the shockmount screws off & would leave a natural recession for the strap...
« Last Edit: May 16, 2024, 07:37:04 PM by wehideandseek »
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Offline admkrk

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2024, 11:42:03 PM »
I did not look that close, but yea that one might be a better choice.

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Offline illconditioned

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2024, 02:33:40 AM »
Here’s my first attempt.  Not bad for a $200 matched pair. 
https://archive.org/details/rb2024-01-10.InsideOut_s7
Great work! The main thing is get the mics up there, and keep recording.  People will thank you later when you can produce great tapes of memorable shows. I had the great fortune of having installed setups in two clubs in the past.  I didn't run them enough but always smile at the great tapes I got.



Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline wehideandseek

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Re: Ceiling Mount Considerations?
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2024, 12:11:08 PM »
Ill, can you kindly share the details of what / how you mounted & ran?
"Situation gets rough, then i start to panic..."

 

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