Topic: question on stand height

[bobsmith19]

hi, i'm still pretty new at stand taping and was wondering if i could get some opinions on stand height. 

my mics are cards (DIN), my stand can go to about 8ft tall and i have an extension for it that is maybe 1.5ft.  i tape mostly in noisy (chatty) clubs/bars with questionable acoustics.

how high should you run your mics? 

is there too high, or too low? 

should you not get too close to the ceiling?  i wonder about how it affects the sound the closer you get.

how far up above the crowd is high enough to get over the talking? 

does PA stack/speaker location affect stand height?  if the stack is hanging from the ceiling, or sitting on stage, should you raise or lower? 

i wonder about how it sounds up above where the mics are compared to what your ears are hearing at head height.  maybe there's a sweet spot that's above the noise, but not too far up where the sound is different? 

anyway, just looking for opinions and advice.  thanks, bob.

[travelinbeat]

I'm sure others will have better reasons and better explanations, but I've always just run what "feels" right (I'm normally a stealth guy, so my experience with stands is somewhat limited anyways).  I try and look at the room as though the tops of people's heads are the floor, and the ceiling is the ceiling, then fly just about in the middle.  If the crowd is particularly chatty or anything (clapping above their heads, etc), I'll fly higher, working on the belief that it's harder for me (personally) to be disappointed by a recording which has a weird audio property such as a ceiling three feet above the mics than to be disappointed by some jerk screaming all over the tape.  It's much much much harder for me to even notice weird audio anomalies like ceilings, walls, etc.  I'd say so long as your not hugging a barrier (translation: don't run two inches below the ceiling-- give yourself a pad of air between the mics and the ceiling in this case) you should be fine.  Test at home if you want though, you won't need people talking, just turn on some loud music and fly high, fly low, fly middle, fly all over the place.... then just review what sound you like and when the walls / ceilings start affecting your mics.

Hope it helps
-b

[su6oxone]

Agree with ^^^^

I'm hardly a seasoned taper, but I would say the higher the better, in order to minimize crowd noise, which can be considerable.  I wouldn't go lower than 8ft up, and if the speakers are hanging from the ceiling it's probably best to have the stand as high as possible to improve the 'directness' of the sound reaching your mics.  I think 10-11' would be ideal unless the speakers are sitting on the ground.   

[Roving Sign]

I've become increasingly aware of vertical positioning over the years...

Speakers have polar patterns too - I like to keep my mics in line with the mid-range frequencies. Those seem to be the ones that give clarity to recordings.

I've had situations - especially taping close to a stage - where I'd get too much tweeter from the PA, because I ran too high and was right on axis of the PAs tweeters...

Also - Im really picky about having space around my mics - I'd perfer to run a little low, rather than get too close to a ceiling.

I think you really have to look at the speaker system in the club - 3 way, 2 way?

I think mics are generally more forgiving when it comes to crowd noise - espcially in louder club band type environments...I usually find chatter to be "not as bad as I thought" when I finally listen to the show.

[rsimms3]

You can also run lower and point up if you have adjustable shocks or mounts, utilize your cap pattern too.  I had to run shoulder height at a recent outdoor show so I pointed up about 30 degrees using Cards.  I was originally at about 8 ft. but security said everyone was complaining.  If I had known I was going to have to run that low I would have switched to the Hypers.  It turned out better than I thought.  If I can't get quite as high as I like or the place is small I usually run the hypers.

[bobsmith19]

thanks for the all the suggestions.  bob.