Topic: Why are my recordings all drums & vocals, but no guitars?

[newplanet7]

Personally, I am gonna say that the mix in that room is horrid.
I have no problem hearing the guitar/drums/vocals. The Guitar sounds a little washed out but is still very present.
NOO BASS TO SPEAK OF but, hey it's a crappy room mix to start and I can't ever remember hearing bass in Skid Row.

I think if you upgrade the mics you will be better. However, a crappy room mix isn't your fault and you have little control over that being far back besides choosing a different polar pattern and narrower set-up which will have very little effect here.

[jj69]

I don't think it was the room mix.  As far as acoustics and PA quality go, this is literally one of the best concert rooms in the northeast.  The sound in the room has never been anything short of spectacular. 

Acidjack may be right that the mic could be getting overloaded.  The odd thing is that I'm using a 12V battery supply with it and the volume in the room is hardly what I would call earsplitting. 

The Olympus mic with the MTII (which puts out 5V of PIP through its MIC input) made amazing recordings in this room, dependent on position, of course. 

The lack of bass is due to me using the Sony's internal bass cut (200Hz). 

Also, I have tried the Sony's internals in this room and it was obvious that they were completely overloaded. 

[jj69]

Just for comparsion's sake, here's a clip of a different artist in the same room, recorded about a year ago with the Olyumpus/MTII combination:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W89RE5R9

I think it's obvious that this is a significantly better recording.  The Olympus' claimed frequency response is 100Hz - 15kHz, so it's rolling off the bass in a good place. 

I don't think there's any sign of that mic getting overloaded. 

I'm not sure what was going on with that Olympus/MTII combination.  I was very happy with it, but the MTII has become too unreliable to keep using.  I don't know if the "magic" I was hearing with that combo came from the mic, the MTII, or some synergistic match between the two.  I have tried the Olympus mic with other decks (Tascam and the Sony) using the MIC input with poor results.  Either the MTII has an outstanding mic stage, or the problem is the PIP of the other decks.  I recently learned that the MTII's mic input supposedly has 5V of PIP, which is a lot higher than most decks (most are 3V or less).  That's why I'm thinking of trying the Olympus into a 12V battery box into the LINE IN of the Sony.  Perhaps that will provide enough power and give me the same result I got with the old combo? 

[newplanet7]

Yes it's overloaded but that has zero to do with you original post and question.
The vocals drown out the instruments in the mix that you recorded. I have no doubt that some spots in the room it sounded great.
But the mic wasn't capturing that mix. The guitar doesn't sound that bad but the bass is nonexistent. But you know why.
I wouldn't worry about this recording to be honest. If you are now concerned with the distortion
acidjack says it, get new mics.

[acidjack]

The 12V BB could be more than the mic can handle.  Some mics can take higher voltages than others.  The spec sheet says it's good for 1.5V-10V.  So that is part of your problem right there.

I wasn't even getting to the question of the room mix - which also seems bad - because the distortion is the most evident problem.  That and the total elimination of all bass.

I am not 100% sure I agree that you wouldn't hear more guitars if the distortion wasn't present.  The guitars and the distortion kind of wash together for me. 

I'd put little faith in that 100-15,000 figure... also it's more than just the response, it's how flat the response is at those different levels. My guess with this thing is "not very" as it's not designed to be - it's designed for speech.

Look at the online reviews for it - almost everyone is using these for lectures and other speech applications, where something that accentuated say, the vocal range, would be ideal.

[page]

Well, at least we are in agreement (I said the mix and distortion in my PM a couple days ago).

Some gear highlights certain elements of a performance. Some gear I don't think produces a realistic, pleasant, or balanced recording, but it can technically produce one without failure (e.g. no distortion).

[gratefulphish]

I listened to your first sample, and as noted above, it really does not sound particularly good at all.  I ran it through a compressor, which at least brought down the vocals relative to the rest of the signal, and the guitar at the end of the clip sounded markedly better.  But as people have suggested, you are never going to get a better recording than your mic can produce.  I think that you would find a vast improvement with CA or any other small card mics, mounted on glasses or in a hat.  Even though there may not have been anyone on the floor for several feet in front of you, the sound level and clarity drop dramatically as you lower the height level down.  Just duck down a foot or more at the next show you are at and see what I mean.  Height usually means unobstructed space between you and the sound source, which translates into much clearer recordings.

Depending on the club, and how they mix (or don't mix) certain instruments, you have to place your mics accordingly.  If all of the guitar is coming out of the stage amps, and your are further back with omnis, you are going to get a muddled sound, particularly when you have the mics attached to you with a tie clip, which in and of itself is blocking some of the sound.  Using cards, with a narrower angle (if all the guitar is coming off the stage in particular) should result in a significant improvement.

As already noted, do NOT run your limiter at all, and avoid using the built-in bass roll-off of a deck like the M-10.  You can always EQ in post (which is not the sin that certain people make it out to be).  It is very difficult, if not impossible to replace completely rolled off and otherwise distorted low end.   Finally, 24 bit will do nothing to resolve your crux issue here.  The benefit of 24 bit is being able to run at lower levels, assuring that you will not need that limiter, and allowing you to raise the level in post, without increasing the noise floor.  If you can, borrow a pair of cards, run them in a hat, and see what happens.  I seriously doubt that any of your prior recordings coming out great was due to any "magic" associated with the Micro-crapper.