Topic: A recording contract to consider the venue?

[RemotelyLocated]

Just got off the phone with a leader of a swing band. He's going to permit me to record a live show next month. This is strictly for me as a hobby/no money changing hands and no distribution from me save perhaps a CD for the bandleader afterwards.

He's concerned the venue may object, since they have their own "sound people" (who wouldn't be recording). The band does have a vocalist and I asked if the house P.A. would be used for that or the band and ... he said no, they have their own P.A. on stage, presumably just for the vocalist--the 18-piece band doesn't use amplification. Anyway, my takeaway from that was that the venue's sound people have no function for the event and I certainly wouldn't be patching into anything except an A/C outlet ...

I suggested a recording contract that specifies the recording wouldn't be sold nor distributed, in case the venue thinks they'd be missing out on a revenue share OR that they'd simply feel better about me traipsing around running cables and mic stand ... I've seen a few examples here of contracts but none? that seemed to include the venue's position. Got advice? We have about 30 days to get this settled.

It may wind up being just a 2-party agreement he shows to the venue and they say, "whatever, fine ..."

Thanks!

[page]

size/capacity of the venue? The bigger the venue (typically) the more complex and official the documentation needs to be. I've found that venues that max out at 200 patrons barely need anything other than the person in charge on the band end saying "this person is with us as a roadie for purpose XYZ" at the beginning of the night.

I do a lot of stuff like this anymore and while I don't use contracts to assuage venue issues, if I were going to, I'd do a simple 2 party agreement since you only need AC power and most bands that have riders have riders that include the usage of AC power (if the band doesn't have a rider or it's just a small verbal one, then chances are the venue is small enough that they won't care either). The biggest thing I can suggest is for the purposes of the gig, you want to be considered part of the band's crew. Either a "roadie" or some other sub-classification that is staff related, but not associated with the house crew. Since you won't be impacting the house, the majority won't bat an eye after that. My toughest run ins are all with me being not affiliated with either the venue or the band and instead coming in as a third party.

Also, kudos for working this out in advance.  pro-tip: Make sure that you check in about 5-7 days before the event to ensure that everything is still going as planned.

[RemotelyLocated]

That's an interesting angle and makes sense, thanks. And yes, I'll be coming in from out of town for this and showing up about an hour before the band leader, so I'll need a venue contact who's on board ahead of time so there are no surprises.

[John Willett]

On thinks like this you do need to specify that any CD of the recording is for the band only and that no commercial use be made of the recording.

If they *do*, later, want to make commercial use of the recording; then you would want a fee (and you may also then have to pay a venue fee).

This covers you if you capture a great performance that they want to release - in which case you deserve a fee.

[acidjack]

I have a standing contract in place with a venue. However, based on the specifics of this, I would just ask the venue. I highly doubt a contract is needed. And if it is, this venue might want to reconsider its priorities....

[RemotelyLocated]

I'm thinking to use wording that shows the agreement he and I have, and that he'd be able to show the venue as a way of letting them know who's gaining access.

As far as distribution is concerned, even if this is the "recording of the century" it won't be sold nor distributed and the contract will say that.

[John Willett]

As far as distribution is concerned, even if this is the "recording of the century" it won't be sold nor distributed and the contract will say that.

I would leave the door open - because if it *does* turn out to be something special you don't want to have to ditch it for release because the contract banned it.  But you do need to just say that if release is desired at a future date it would need a new contract and payment.

[RemotelyLocated]

Fair enough-makes sense, thanks.

[vanark]

I have a standing contract in place with a venue. However, based on the specifics of this, I would just ask the venue. I highly doubt a contract is needed. And if it is, this venue might want to reconsider its priorities....

Thank you for saying this, Jonas.  I really think a contract is overboard in this case.

[runonce]

I think S.O.P. should be just fine...

Making such a big production out of this might only make it harder for other tapers at this venue...("hey buddy, where's your contract...?")

And since you've declared it "hobby/no money" - I think you're basically working for free - and the product belongs to the band.

[DigiGal]

I think S.O.P. should be just fine...

Making such a big production out of this might only make it harder for other tapers at this venue...("hey buddy, where's your contract...?")

And since you've declared it "hobby/no money" - I think you're basically working for free - and the product belongs to the band.

^^^ This, the initial tendency would be to fear contracts the more detailed the bigger the fear.  If they are asking for a contract then that's different.

[runonce]

I think S.O.P. should be just fine...

Making such a big production out of this might only make it harder for other tapers at this venue...("hey buddy, where's your contract...?")

And since you've declared it "hobby/no money" - I think you're basically working for free - and the product belongs to the band.

^^^ This, the initial tendency would be to fear contracts the more detailed the bigger the fear.  If they are asking for a contract then that's different.

I think even in a pro, for-pay scenario, the recording engineer gets paid to work that day, record the show - and that's it...unlikely they see any of the "revenue" side of the job.(probably true for the venue, as well)

Such affairs are generally worked out by the artist management - kinda out-of-bounds for the recording engineer.

And if the venue thinks they have some stake - that's up to them to arrange.

[kirk97132]

I think S.O.P. should be just fine...

Making such a big production out of this might only make it harder for other tapers at this venue...("hey buddy, where's your contract...?")

And since you've declared it "hobby/no money" - I think you're basically working for free - and the product belongs to the band.

^^^ This, the initial tendency would be to fear contracts the more detailed the bigger the fear.  If they are asking for a contract then that's different.

Absolute agreement.  Even at the college where I work, one year we were required by the dept Dean to secure "permission to archive" the recording for school use only and it made things way worse than just asking

[willndmb]

I have a standing contract in place with a venue. However, based on the specifics of this, I would just ask the venue. I highly doubt a contract is needed. And if it is, this venue might want to reconsider its priorities....

Thank you for saying this, Jonas.  I really think a contract is overboard in this case.

i typed the same thing before page posted and deleted it because what do I know
But it seems like a contract is overkill, just ask/tell them what you are up to

[page]

I have a standing contract in place with a venue. However, based on the specifics of this, I would just ask the venue. I highly doubt a contract is needed. And if it is, this venue might want to reconsider its priorities....

Thank you for saying this, Jonas.  I really think a contract is overboard in this case.

i typed the same thing before page posted and deleted it because what do I know
But it seems like a contract is overkill, just ask/tell them what you are up to

that's sort of unfortunate to hear. I don't intend for my posts to be mechanisms of silence, just a different view point.