Topic: A recording contract to consider the venue?

[willndmb]

I have a standing contract in place with a venue. However, based on the specifics of this, I would just ask the venue. I highly doubt a contract is needed. And if it is, this venue might want to reconsider its priorities....

Thank you for saying this, Jonas.  I really think a contract is overboard in this case.

i typed the same thing before page posted and deleted it because what do I know
But it seems like a contract is overkill, just ask/tell them what you are up to

that's sort of unfortunate to hear. I don't intend for my posts to be mechanisms of silence, just a different view point.

dont get me wrong, I say deleted as I never hit post and like I said what do I know
My thought was just the a thought, I have no experience with contract nd venues
It just seemed like overkill to me
Your post and others have helped educate me

[RemotelyLocated]

My understudying is that the contract we'll have for this is firstly to make the band leader comfortable so that he can go to the venue with an explanation as to why a 3rd party is gonna show up early and start setting some recording gear up. But yeah, in the end the venue's either gonna shrug or come back with an objection.

[John Willett]

And since you've declared it "hobby/no money" - I think you're basically working for free - and the product belongs to the band.

No, this is dangerous!

I know "hobbyists" that can produce recordings of equal (or better) than many professionals.

So - always retain your just rights over your recordings - because if you do produce something exceptional it is very unfair for the band to make lots of money from it and you get nothing.

Recording for free for band copies only is fine, but if anything ends up as a commercial product you *do* need your just rewards - and getting this sorted up-front is fine.

[acidjack]

My understudying is that the contract we'll have for this is firstly to make the band leader comfortable so that he can go to the venue with an explanation as to why a 3rd party is gonna show up early and start setting some recording gear up. But yeah, in the end the venue's either gonna shrug or come back with an objection.

Unless the band leader is an attorney (well really, even if he is) tell him a contract is not necessary and to simply inform the venue when he gets there.  If he's really that concerned about it, tell him to print out whatever e-mails you have back and forth.

The only way a venue will ever give an artist a hard time about letting someone record them is if the venue charges its own fees for recordings.  This sounds like a pretty small band, not Bob Dylan playing Carnegie Hall or something. The artist is going to walk in, at most tell the sound guy what's up, and that guy is going to shrug and it'll be fine.

[obaaron]

^^

This has been my experience.  Never had an issue with any venues as long as the artist is OK with it.

[capnhook]

^^

This has been my experience.  Never had an issue with any venues as long as the artist is OK with it.

yep.....load in with the band, even better.

[page]

^^

This has been my experience.  Never had an issue with any venues as long as the artist is OK with it.

yep.....load in with the band, even better.

+1 on both accounts.

It's the equivalent of the "Professional's Guestlist," especially at smaller venues (sub 400ish people).

I had a string of shows of something like 18 shows from early June to this past weekend where I didn't pay to get in because I was there when the band arrived and walked in with them. Thats why, in my earlier post, I said you want to be part of "the crew"  for an event and behave accordingly. I looked and acted the part of a crew member.

[kirk97132]

I had a string of shows of something like 18 shows from early June to this past weekend where I didn't pay to get in because I was there when the band arrived and walked in with them. Thats why, in my earlier post, I said you want to be part of "the crew"  for an event and behave accordingly. I looked and acted the part of a crew member.

I agree 100%.  Of course, I think that the majority of"tapers" I have run into have no idea what it means to be part of a crew during load in.  They just have never done it and when around people who do it for a living it is blatantly obvious.  And I don't know for sure but I am willing to bet that you are a "little" older Page.  I know that being older myself means I am less likely to be questioned by some 20 something venue staff person when I show up around load in.  And I work in production.  There is  a lot to be said for being able to walk the walk and talk the  talk.  So I'd suggest to some of our younger people here.  Go early find the soundguy, tell him straight up , hey how can I help out?  I don't really know what you need but just tell me and I'll do it.  Worry about your gear AFTER the band and house are set up.  Get some experience being around band set ups and road crews, and get your local soundguys familiar with your face.  It will give you large returns later on.

[runonce]

I had a string of shows of something like 18 shows from early June to this past weekend where I didn't pay to get in because I was there when the band arrived and walked in with them. Thats why, in my earlier post, I said you want to be part of "the crew"  for an event and behave accordingly. I looked and acted the part of a crew member.

I agree 100%.  Of course, I think that the majority of"tapers" I have run into have no idea what it means to be part of a crew during load in.  They just have never done it and hwen around people who do it for a living it is blatantly obvious.  And I don't know for sure but I am willing to bet that you are a "little" older Page.  I know that being older myself means I am less likely to be questioned by some 20 something venue staff person when I show up around load in.  And I work in production.  There is  alot to be said for being able to walk the walk and talk the  talk.  So I'd suggest to some of our younger people here.  Go early find the soundguy, tell him straight up , hey how can I help out?  I don't really know what you need but just tell me and I'll do it.  Worry about your gear AFTER they band and house are set up.  Get some experience being around band set ups and road crews, and get your local soundguys familiar with your face.  It will give you large returns later on.

A friend works tech/production for local university venue - they had Jackson Browne awhile back and some fellows rolled in with the band members and a van driver - carrying gear. Walked out to the center handicapped section and setup video and mics. It wasn't until about halfway through the show the venue staff figured out they weren't part of the show - and even then...they just let them roll because they were afraid to say anything! They did actually ask my friend - his response was basically..."not my job man..."

[guitard]

The only way a venue will ever give an artist a hard time about letting someone record them is if the venue charges its own fees for recordings.

Another thing to consider ...

Depending on the location, there is also the matter concerning union work rules.  Some places require that certain work be done by a union member.  So by entering into a contractual agreement - that could potentially open up a can of worms with the local union.

[bombdiggity]

The only way a venue will ever give an artist a hard time about letting someone record them is if the venue charges its own fees for recordings.

That's not actually the only way.  That is the major issue but there can also be the union issue mentioned.  In addition there are some venue owners/managers/employees/promoters that just have their own issue with recording and even with band permission open recording can be a major battle/blowout.  I've run into a few of those over the years.  The bands typically will defer to the venue (as they generally want to return).  That can be a true test of tact... 

[acidjack]

The only way a venue will ever give an artist a hard time about letting someone record them is if the venue charges its own fees for recordings.

That's not actually the only way.  That is the major issue but there can also be the union issue mentioned.  In addition there are some venue owners/managers/employees/promoters that just have their own issue with recording and even with band permission open recording can be a major battle/blowout.  I've run into a few of those over the years.  The bands typically will defer to the venue (as they generally want to return).  That can be a true test of tact...

Sorry, you are right of course. I should have said, "a venue of that size". Carnegie Hall or Lincoln Center probably give you a hard time about taping no matter what.

400 person club like what I think is being discussed? Very very rare. I don't believe venues that size are unionized, and unless the owner is weird about it for some reason (possible, though not terribly common) the main issue is likely to be if they want to try and make money off of it.

I'd echo the obvious about what KirkD said too -- it's great to be there at load-in, but if you are, realize you're basically just "in the way" and try and be as unobtrusive, polite and helpful as possible. If you can lend a hand, do it. 

[runonce]

The only way a venue will ever give an artist a hard time about letting someone record them is if the venue charges its own fees for recordings.

That's not actually the only way.  That is the major issue but there can also be the union issue mentioned.  In addition there are some venue owners/managers/employees/promoters that just have their own issue with recording and even with band permission open recording can be a major battle/blowout.  I've run into a few of those over the years.  The bands typically will defer to the venue (as they generally want to return).  That can be a true test of tact...

Sorry, you are right of course. I should have said, "a venue of that size". Carnegie Hall or Lincoln Center probably give you a hard time about taping no matter what.

400 person club like what I think is being discussed? Very very rare. I don't believe venues that size are unionized, and unless the owner is weird about it for some reason (possible, though not terribly common) the main issue is likely to be if they want to try and make money off of it.

I'd echo the obvious about what KirkD said too -- it's great to be there at load-in, but if you are, realize you're basically just "in the way" and try and be as unobtrusive, polite and helpful as possible. If you can lend a hand, do it.

Agree - and Lincoln and Carnegie would have this covered in their contracts!

Sounds like calling attention to yourself is the biggest risk here...

[RemotelyLocated]

FWIW, I've sent off the simple agreement between myself and the bandleader using verbiage that said no distribution etc. and left it at that. He can show it to the venue or not, even though I didn't include anything in there that would cause them to want/need to sign it. If there are any objections or further concerns they'll be voiced. Until then I won't worry about it and expect to get approval in a few days.

Regarding load-in, that would be my preference but I am not sure it will happen. The show starts at 8, the bandleader will show up around 7 ... but here's the thing. Some other group is using the dance floor for dancing lessons at 7:15 and I don't want to be running wires and be in their way, so I may try to show up earlier, around 6 and that means showing up way before any of the band.

Either way I'd want a contact name at the venue who's cool with that.

[page]

I've gotten in the habit of asking about load-in times and when the first person is arriving.

With jazz or big brass bands, it's whoever is drumming, everyone else just sort of shows up 20 minutes before they go on which is sort of nerve-wracking...

best of luck.