Topic: Acapella Group Recording - thoughts?

[Patrick]

I've been asked to record a friend's acapella group for a live release.  He explained the stage plot to me today and it basically looks like this:

Code: [Select]

USR      USC      USL
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|    x x x x |
|       Harmony Group (~10) |
| x x x x x x  |
| x x x x x x x |
| |
| |
|  BBox Mic      Lead Vocal    Vocal #2 |
-----------------------------------------------------------------
DSR     DSC      DSL


To start, I have an Edirol R4, and will have an Edirol UA-5 with my laptop for 2 (or even 4 if needed) extra channels.  I've got more mics, cables, clamps, and stands then I'd care to admit.  So basically 6 channels to play with with an unlimited amount of microphone options.

The three Sm58's downstage are usually mobile (they are picked up and handheld when used).  That rules out the possibility of individually mic'ing each person with one of my mics.  I am hesitant to take direct outs from the board for these three channels, but it seems like that is the only viable option.  I am afraid of some of the effects that the engineer will use, and will be recorded by me.  Hopefully the FOH mixer's inserts are pre-fader (most usually are, right?) 

Any tips for mic-ing the big group of singers?  Should I use a conventional stereo pair in front/above the group, or some sort of overhead A/B pattern using 2 stands above the singers?  What about doing a 3 mic mix- 2 ovh's and one omni in front of the group?  I've have not really had experience with this before, so I am not sure what works and what doesn't.  I am also worried that splitting the mics too far can cause some phasing problems if the group moves around, dances, etc.

They also want me to capture the audience as well.  Omni's on stage corners should do the trick I assume.  This might even be a good downstage fill for sound that aren't being picked up by the onstage mics.

Finally, I am planning on running a normal 2 track rig back by the soundboard to round out the mix. I've heard this group's board mixes before, I'm avoiding that signal at all costs. 

Any other suggestions?  Like I said, this is one of the first times doing this type of recording and want to make sure that I am not missing the mark.

Thanks in advance!

[Patrick]

Bump for those who didn't see it the first time around...

Thanks!

[bluegrass_brad]

The effects like reverb wont come through the directs.  Those are sent out an aux and then fed into the main mix through an aux return or an unused channel.  Do you know what kind of board it is? 

[Patrick]

The effects like reverb wont come through the directs.  Those are sent out an aux and then fed into the main mix through an aux return or an unused channel.  Do you know what kind of board it is? 

I know how the effects sends work, but these effects are most likey going to be onboard (ie. a powered mixer setup).  I'm not really sure what type of board it's going to be (that certainly would help my planning a bit), but hopefully they have individual channel returns for me to use.

[bluegrass_brad]

even onboard effects wont come through the directs.  Most boards (well at least the Allen Heath's, Mackie's and Yamaha's Ive used) with built in effects have a dedicated aux for them, or are routed right to the main mix with a dedicated level knob. Havent seen many powered boards with direct outs though.

[Patrick]

even onboard effects wont come through the directs.  Most boards (well at least the Allen Heath's, Mackie's and Yamaha's Ive used) with built in effects have a dedicated aux for them, or are routed right to the main mix with a dedicated level knob. Havent seen many powered boards with direct outs though.

Most of those Mackie powered mixers have 'em on each channel.  Anyways it's going to be an unpowered Mackie board (of some type) so everything should be fine.  There is not going to be a stage snake so I'll have to find a place to set up offstage to avoid trans-room cable runs.   

BTW, this is an acapella group from ASU; didn't you go to school up there?

[bluegrass_brad]

Im pretty sure what your thinking of is the send on each channel for the dedicated aux to the onboard effects generator.  I use one of those 16 channel CFX (not powered) Mackies with onboard effects about 2-3 times a month mixing shows at Warren Wilson. Pretty sure none of those powered Mackies have directs either. The VLZ's have directs on some of the channels (the VLZ16 has directs on the first 8 channels), but they arent powered. I did go to school up at ASU.  Is the show up there?

[Patrick]

Im pretty sure what your thinking of is the send on each channel for the dedicated aux to the onboard effects generator.  I use one of those 16 channel CFX (not powered) Mackies with onboard effects about 2-3 times a month mixing shows at Warren Wilson. Pretty sure none of those powered Mackies have directs either. The VLZ's have directs on some of the channels (the VLZ16 has directs on the first 8 channels), but they arent powered. I did go to school up at ASU.  Is the show up there?

I was actually referring to the channel inserts, which every Mackie mixer that I know of has, whether powered or not.  Since the FOH is not going to be using outboard effects, I'll be plugging in (halfway, of course) and running into the r4.  This is really the only way that I can think of to get individual channel patches from the board, without having a transformer isolated split or the convienence of direct outputs.

And yes, the show is on campus.  It's in the new student union, one of the theatres up there, not sure what it's called.

[bluegrass_brad]

Gotcha, you referred to directs earlier so I was confused about that. Your right, All decent boards have inserts. Same thing though, no worries about getting any effects out of an insert send. As long as he isnt using any compressors or EQ's on a channel you'll be fine.