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Author Topic: Best ORTF mounting solution?  (Read 14373 times)

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jnorman34

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Best ORTF mounting solution?
« on: May 24, 2009, 06:14:01 PM »
What is the best mounting solution to acheive a correct ORTF setup?  a plain stereo bar with a spacer on one side to raise one mic above the other?  the shure A27M?  others?  why do so many people sell their A27M's?  thanks.

Offline dennisrtyler

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2009, 06:21:33 PM »
because they are so heavy. i would go with a vark bar and whatever stock clips you use.
4. im so abrasive i make sandpaper nervous.

Schoeps CMR/mk4 > Naiant PFA > Oade Concert Mod Marantz PMD-661

Offline boojum

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2009, 07:32:37 PM »
I have done it both ways.  Both ways work.  The Shure is heavy.  The Shure does not break.   ;o)
Nov schmoz kapop.

Offline John Willett

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2009, 06:38:39 AM »
Grace SpaceBar.



Distances and angles all clearly marked for a very fast set-up.

A riser comes with each one so you can get one above the other.


Offline sanaka

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2009, 05:55:49 PM »
Quote
Grace SpaceBar

Dear Lord that's beautiful  :o

It's like the Porsche/Jessica Alba of T-Bars!

Peace


Offline ghellquist

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2009, 06:24:29 PM »
Best - this?
http://www.posthorn.com/S_ortf.html

--- below for a great diversion from the question....

But you could argue about the text at that page. ORTF is not really related to the size of the head if you ask me, more of a coincidence. Compare with for example DIN placing the mics 30 cms apart.

I like this part (applies to me) "Placement is relatively uncritical, and the technique produces good results even in the hands of an inexperienced or hasty user."

And the CMC 6 does not accept phantom power between 12 and 48V, it accepts either the 48V standard OR the 12V standard, not non-standard values in between.


// Gunnar

Offline boojum

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2009, 08:50:54 PM »
Gunnar, et al, I checked the reference against the Schoeps site and that particular part of the Posthorn page is a direct quote from the Schoeps site.  Now the question is how accurate is the translation by Schoeps from German to English?

ORTF is a good setup, but is it more "magical" that DIN, DINa, NOS and whatever similar setups there are?  And then there is Williams.  But Lee (Gutbucket) has said that most of Williams thrust seems to be to get the stereo spread even between the speakers on playback. 

We are in danger of falling into the classic "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" argument here.  Not that it has not happened before.     8)

I will bow out.

Cheers
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 11:13:55 PM by boojum »
Nov schmoz kapop.

jnorman34

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2009, 09:05:34 PM »
we are sort of going all over the place with this.  we do not have any control over speaker placement for the average listener, so i dont know how that actually figures in.  i have always just set up to ensure that the group fit comfortably inside the mic angle, but that results in uneven signal level across the stereo image (regardless of speaker placement) - you can measure the signal level L-C-R and see that if the angle is not wide enough, the level in the center is higher than the R and L levels, resulting in an uneven stereo spread, heavy in the middle.  if the angle is too great, the L and R signals are higher than the C level, resulting in a hole in the middle.  it seems to me that you truly need to be rather precise for ORTF to acheive the best, most accurate result. 


Offline Jammin72

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2009, 06:41:25 PM »
Wow!  That Grace piece is beautiful  The capacity to angle the bar a bit upward on a flat stand should scream "love me" to the FOB folks.  Now to get your shock mounts to align perfectly with the 0deg mark on the individual mounts...
Yes, but what do you HEAR?

Offline 0vu

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2009, 08:12:15 AM »
The Grace is pretty and for many techniques works well but for the easiest way to set up ORTF with the correct angles and spacing, using pencil type mics (up to 20mm diameter - or maybe 21mm if you don't mind snapping the odd mic clip from time to time!), the Schoeps UMS20 has the edge.



Just set everything to the click stops next to the green dots, and, if you're using Schoeps mics, underline the engraved word "SCHOEPS" in the logo on the body with the edge of the mic clip, then twist the clips to take care of the height offset and you're ready to go. (If you're not using Schoeps mics, you'd need to measure and perhaps mark your mic bodies for the correct spacing but once done it's a doddle to use.

The UMS20 is also designed to fit into a Schoeps shock mount (the A20S with the thicker elastic) at which point you get shock mounting, with cable strain relief clamp, and the option of angling the bar without needing to use a boom stand. It can also set several other configurations that would be fiddly with other bars

It's useless with anything other than pencil mics though. And the settings do develop a tiny bit of 'play' over time. A quick trip back to Schoeps for some TLC cures this, or you could brave the spring loaded ball bearings inside the sliding clips yourself and replace the little slilicon slip washers to tighten things up again. (Don't underestimate this job though - I opened one of these on the stage at the Royal Albert Hall in London and after a small 'PING' and the soft clicking and rolling sound of very small things landing and vanishing on a very large floor, I rapidly came to regret having bothered! Lucky I have spare UMS20s!)


Or there's always the various fixed spacing/modular bars for use with active capsules/compact mics which are even easier to set up but tend to be very model specific.


The A27 is a dinky idea but I find that even with the tightest spacing, it sets the mics too far apart vertically for my liking.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 08:19:50 AM by 0vu »

Offline Jammin72

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2009, 11:03:29 AM »
I've used the schoeps bar in the past an loved it for those mics. For the $$ however it looks like Grace really machined a solid piece there. I was always shocked at how much money the UMS-20 sold for. It's a reason I don't think we see more of them out there... well that and the remote capsule craze.
Yes, but what do you HEAR?

Offline chris319

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2009, 11:42:12 PM »
FWIW, I plan to build an ORTF mount out of a plank of wood and some mic flanges. I want something where the angles are locked in and things don't come unscrewed. I'm planning to use maybe a 6" piece of 1" x 3" with one side double thickness to achieve the vertical displacement. Each side will have a male flange and a shock mount to hold the mics:

http://www.atlassound.com/Product.aspx?id=1509&pI=1491

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/OnStage-Stands-MY320-Condenser-Shockmount-Mic-Clip?sku=452077&src=3WWRWXGB&ZYXSEM=0

The shock mounts will be screwed tight to the flanges, possibly glued in place, so the angle will be fixed. On the bottom will be a female flange for attachment to the stand:

http://www.atlassound.com/Product.aspx?id=1507&pI=1491

I'll post a pic when it's finished. Right now I'm waiting for the shock mounts to arrive.

dorrcoq

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2009, 12:34:02 AM »
Grace SpaceBar.
Distances and angles all clearly marked for a very fast set-up.

A riser comes with each one so you can get one above the other.


Man, I need to save up and get me one of those!

Offline John Willett

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2009, 05:13:18 AM »
Grace SpaceBar.
Distances and angles all clearly marked for a very fast set-up.

A riser comes with each one so you can get one above the other.


Man, I need to save up and get me one of those!

I'm delighted with mine - and Grace are about to make it even better as there will shortly be a "bridge" to mount a centre mic. as well.  ;D

Offline E@rl

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Re: Best ORTF mounting solution?
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2009, 06:20:11 PM »
So I was thinking of running this at an up coming show. I'm using the shure a27m bar and Busman mics and busman shockmounts.


I "think" i have this setup right.. 17cm from cap to cap angle of 110



I just a little confused, is it better to mount on the same plane, or does the vertical setup matter??  ???



Busman BSC1 K1 K2 K3 K4> BM2p+ mod UA-5> JB3 or MacBook

 

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