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Author Topic: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount  (Read 15232 times)

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Offline cd2go

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my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« on: September 13, 2011, 09:03:32 PM »
Thought I'd throw this up here since it's simple and works well for me. I like to travel light most of the time, so I came up with a 3-in-one bar with as little hardware as possible.

Started with a 6' length of 1/2" x 1/4" piece of plexiglass from eplastics.com for $6; the edges are beveled nicely, not sharp. Did some measurements, then cut a piece and drilled the holes. The outermost are for DIN, the next set in from the ends are for ORTF, and the extra hole on the left side is for XY (used in conjunction with the DIN hole). Sharpie lines indicate alignment for the base of the shock mounts:

***UPDATE*** Plexiglass is indeed way too fragile so I re-fabbed with a piece of 1/8" aluminum. Still lightweight, and now indestructible:





I had to hand file a notch to allow enough adapter thread to stick through:



For the shockmounts I pre-drilled a hole through the base and used 6-32 x 3/4" round slotted brass screws with knurled nuts. I used a bit of Loctite as well:



As mounted with mics in the ORTF position; since the lyres are a bit flexible, there is a tendency for the mics to "sag" a bit. To prevent this I Velcro the cables so the mics remain level:



As mounted in the XY position and fitted with DPA UA0896 windscreens. It doesn't look it since the mics are so short relative to the screens, but the caps are perfectly aligned on the vertical:



Whadaya think?

-james
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 05:12:31 PM by cd2go »

Offline hi and lo

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 4022 > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 09:16:36 PM »

Whadaya think?

Wow! Really nice work here. :)

Hardly specific to the 4022's, this would be a great solution for a few 4021 owners I know. Could even replace a few kwon/nola bars I own!

Offline cd2go

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 4022 > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 09:43:49 PM »
Wow! Really nice work here. :)

Hardly specific to the 4022's

Thanks! I changed the thread title...

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 10:18:02 PM »
Have you noticed any jitter with using only one lyre (and the stand gets hit or the floor is thumping) compared to the normal 2 for stabilization?

I used an INV-6 as a kwonbar-style replacement for the traditional A20 in my setup. I hadn't thought about just taking apart the shockmount and using select pieces of it though, kudos; that's an interesting use of the lyres.
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2011, 01:57:44 AM »
Nice work.  You might consider adding more slack between the mics and the point to which you attach the cables to the stand.  More cable slack will help dampen stand vibrations and minimize the possibility of them reaching the mics.
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2011, 03:32:30 AM »
That's pretty slick, cd2go!  Great job and very cool!

Have you noticed any jitter with using only one lyre (and the stand gets hit or the floor is thumping) compared to the normal 2 for stabilization?

I used an INV-6 as a kwonbar-style replacement for the traditional A20 in my setup. I hadn't thought about just taking apart the shockmount and using select pieces of it though, kudos; that's an interesting use of the lyres.

I run 4021's all the time in my INV-6's just like in these pictures and have no issues whatsoever.  Threading the mic cable through the clip at the base of the mount also contributes to the isolation.  FWIW, the DPA-made shockmounts for the 402x series only hold the mics around a single point, too

By the way, you can buy/order the lyres by themselves at B&H for $13.  "70mm Wide Lyre with 19/25mm Clip" (#042205) is the one they use on the INV-6 and -7.

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2011, 09:56:25 AM »
That's pretty slick, cd2go!  Great job and very cool!

Have you noticed any jitter with using only one lyre (and the stand gets hit or the floor is thumping) compared to the normal 2 for stabilization?

I used an INV-6 as a kwonbar-style replacement for the traditional A20 in my setup. I hadn't thought about just taking apart the shockmount and using select pieces of it though, kudos; that's an interesting use of the lyres.

I run 4021's all the time in my INV-6's just like in these pictures and have no issues whatsoever.  Threading the mic cable through the clip at the base of the mount also contributes to the isolation.  FWIW, the DPA-made shockmounts for the 402x series only hold the mics around a single point, too

true, I'd forgotten about the DPA mounts. Thanks.
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2011, 11:02:01 AM »
Interesting - but I think I would have used the INV-2 - that's the one with the small clip at the rear to hold the back of the capsule.  Then it would not droop and you would have been able to address the cable properly - the picture suggests that you will get noise transmission along the cable to the mic.


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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2011, 11:54:21 AM »
^^ Depends on the DPA mic.  For the 4021, the INV-2 wouldn't work, as the cable is too narrow to be held by the back lyre. 

I have similarly run my 4021s in a single lyre of the INV-6 clamped to a balcony with absurd amounts of shock, to the point my entire clamp apparatus was visibly moving up and down, and had no issues (other than being scared one of my windscreens would be jarred loose and fall into the crowd).
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 12:38:48 PM »
Nice work James, very clean.

Be careful not to accientally drop the bar or knock the stand into something with the bar attached, since plexiglass is somewhat brittle and can crack if stressed.  The higher stress locations and where breakage is most likely are around the holes are and especially the thinner filed down section around the center mounting hole.  Might be wise to carry a small roll of gaff tape just in case.
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2011, 12:57:55 PM »
I prefer polycarbonate when making stuff like this.  Acrylic/plexiglass is too fragile and prone to cracking, IMHO.

A lot of plastic suppliers will rape you on price.  It's worth looking/asking for 'drops' or scraps.  A few years back I was buying polycarbonate drops for .25/lbs from an automotive plastic supplier.

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 02:02:15 PM »
It'd be really useful if someone who has these trick new rycote mounts would share a comp with us.

I'm thinking something like put one mic in your old mount, one mic in new.  Stomp floor, tap stand.  Post sample.


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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 02:59:28 PM »
^^ Didn't record it, but I detailed my first impressions of the InVision mounts in a recent post HERE.  Having a recorded comp between a few shockmounts sounds like a good idea.

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2011, 03:52:53 PM »
It'd be really useful if someone who has these trick new rycote mounts would share a comp with us.

I'm thinking something like put one mic in your old mount, one mic in new.  Stomp floor, tap stand.  Post sample.

I could between a rycote and a shure donut if I had a tbar...

actually, I have a clamp with redundant outs that might work without compromising the test. I'll check this weekend if someone doesn't do one first.
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2011, 05:34:49 PM »
By the way, you can buy/order the lyres by themselves at B&H for $13.  "70mm Wide Lyre with 19/25mm Clip" (#042205) is the one they use on the INV-6 and -7.

Thanks for pointing this out.  I was just about to ask. 
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Offline cd2go

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2011, 06:45:44 PM »
Thanks for all the input everyone  :-*  I've learned so much from this site I'm glad I could contribute something small like this. Quick responses:

Have you noticed any jitter with using only one lyre (and the stand gets hit or the floor is thumping) compared to the normal 2 for stabilization?

I have never noticed any issues due to this set-up, and I like acidjack, have seen it bounce pretty good. I primarily record amplified rock music, but I suspect if you were to be recording softer music in an acoustic/jazz/classical setting, something a bit more stable would be better, as you would be much more likely to hear bumps/shakes in those situations. Previously I was using the DPA UA097 dual-rubber shock mount that comes with the 352x kit. That mount (as well as the single-rubber DPA circle-style compact shock mount and the gooseneck mount) are quite "bouncy" themselves, and never had a problem with that set-up either.

I prefer polycarbonate when making stuff like this.  Acrylic/plexiglass is too fragile and prone to cracking, IMHO.

I will look into getting that material, thanks! I have 2' left of this stuff if anyone wants to fool around with it, just pay shipping. I was also thinking aluminum but it would be heavier; plus theoretically, vibrations transmit better through denser material correct? So plastic should be better (durability aside) than any metal for this application, no?

Be careful not to accientally drop the bar or knock the stand into something with the bar attached, since plexiglass is somewhat brittle and can crack if stressed.  The higher stress locations and where breakage is most likely are around the holes are and especially the thinner filed down section around the center mounting hole.

Great call, I learned this the hard way. I had left the mount in my bag with both the top and bottom adapters still attached; last week I grabbed it out of my bag, and it fell to the ground, splitting in 2 pieces  :'( Good thing I always lug around a 60-yd roll of Shurtape.

-james
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 06:48:53 PM by cd2go »

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2011, 10:25:40 PM »
you could probably substitute one of these for the plexiglass and just use a washer so that the nut doesn't go through. they are made out of lightweight aluminum and it is even predrilled in the middle for your light stand or bogen rapid adapter.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/534727-REG/K_M_23550_500_55_23550_Adjustable_Microphone_Bar.html


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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2011, 10:44:10 PM »
I prefer polycarbonate when making stuff like this.  Acrylic/plexiglass is too fragile and prone to cracking, IMHO.

I will look into getting that material, thanks! I have 2' left of this stuff if anyone wants to fool around with it, just pay shipping. I was also thinking aluminum but it would be heavier; plus theoretically, vibrations transmit better through denser material correct? So plastic should be better (durability aside) than any metal for this application, no?

Acrylic can be so finicky to cut, and drill. Some is worse than others - maybe the more scratch resistant stuff is harder.

Plastic should dampen better than metal.  Wood is great at dampening vibrations.  Aluminum dampens better than steel.  Plastic intake manifolds make cars more quiet.

Maybe mount them on hockey pucks? :P


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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2011, 06:59:31 AM »
^^ Depends on the DPA mic.  For the 4021, the INV-2 wouldn't work, as the cable is too narrow to be held by the back lyre.

The back clip does not hold the cable, but the back of the mic. where the cable exits - from the pic. at the top you can see it's thicker there.


I have similarly run my 4021s in a single lyre of the INV-6 clamped to a balcony with absurd amounts of shock, to the point my entire clamp apparatus was visibly moving up and down, and had no issues (other than being scared one of my windscreens would be jarred loose and fall into the crowd).

With a small mic. you can use s single clip - but you need to get the balance right and carefully loop the output cable and clamp it so as not to transmit noise via the cable (NB: not as in the pic. at the top).

Offline cd2go

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2011, 07:31:23 AM »
The back clip does not hold the cable, but the back of the mic. where the cable exits - from the pic. at the top you can see it's thicker there.

The smaller back lyre is still too big for the collar on the back of the 4022 mics--it is designed to securely hold the wider lemo connector of the 4023 mic...I guess you could "rest" the cable on the back lyre, but that wouldn't prevent forward droop, just rear droop.

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2011, 10:00:21 AM »
The back clip does not hold the cable, but the back of the mic. where the cable exits - from the pic. at the top you can see it's thicker there.

The smaller back lyre is still too big for the collar on the back of the 4022 mics--it is designed to securely hold the wider lemo connector of the 4023 mic...I guess you could "rest" the cable on the back lyre, but that wouldn't prevent forward droop, just rear droop.

I have derlin sleeves machined that take the OD of a 4022 collar up to the size of the 4023 lemo and Schoeps collar.  I should probably get around to taking pictures and marketing them.   ;)
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2011, 10:59:34 AM »

I have derlin sleeves machined that take the OD of a 4022 collar up to the size of the 4023 lemo and Schoeps collar.  I should probably get around to taking pictures and marketing them.   ;)

I'd love to see those!

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2011, 09:54:47 PM »

I have derlin sleeves machined that take the OD of a 4022 collar up to the size of the 4023 lemo and Schoeps collar.  I should probably get around to taking pictures and marketing them.   ;)

I'd love to see those!

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2011, 12:35:07 AM »

I have derlin sleeves machined that take the OD of a 4022 collar up to the size of the 4023 lemo and Schoeps collar.  I should probably get around to taking pictures and marketing them.   ;)

I'd love to see those!

^
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2015, 09:59:11 PM »

I have similarly run my 4021s in a single lyre of the INV-6 clamped to a balcony with absurd amounts of shock, to the point my entire clamp apparatus was visibly moving up and down, and had no issues (other than being scared one of my windscreens would be jarred loose and fall into the crowd).

So this should work just as well with my Schoeps caps, right? I was looking on B+Hs website, and saw a package deal of [2] lyres for $32 that look like theyd work for me. I would rather have each capsule shockmounted rather than shockmounting my whole vark bar, which is rather heavy to shockmount. That way, I could mount my vark bars directly onto my stand and shock JUST the Schoeps caps. Seems like it would be a better shocking option than doing the whole vark bar :)

Don't get me wrong though, I've had my whole stand swaying gently back and forth quite a few times at rowdy crowds and when some spunion knocks into my stand numerous times within 5 minutes, and my A20S shocks have done the job really well, because those instances arent audible on my recordings ;D But I just want something new honestly :)

By the way, you can buy/order the lyres by themselves at B&H for $13.  "70mm Wide Lyre with 19/25mm Clip" (#042205) is the one they use on the INV-6 and -7.

Thanks for pointing this out.  I was just about to ask. 

Thanks for the link. I just wish B+H had a picture of these before I order so that I know exactly what I'm getting! Then Id just need to figure a way to mount the lyres onto the 3/8" threading of my vark bars! I normally run my NOLA active bars 99% of the time, but the few venues where I need to run PAS, Id feel more comfortable shocking each capsule vs. the whole vark bar. Thanks for all of this great info fellas ;D 8)
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2015, 10:19:20 PM »
So this should work just as well with my Schoeps caps, right?

Yup!

I just wish B+H had a picture of these before I order so that I know exactly what I'm getting!

It's just the "shock" portion of the INV mount; it has a hole at the base that you can put a thin screw/bolt through. With a little DIY it makes a very lightweight setup. Go for it!

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2015, 10:29:18 PM »
So this should work just as well with my Schoeps caps, right?

Yup!

I just wish B+H had a picture of these before I order so that I know exactly what I'm getting!

It's just the "shock" portion of the INV mount; it has a hole at the base that you can put a thin screw/bolt through. With a little DIY it makes a very lightweight setup. Go for it!

Thanks for the info 8) And I always love a good DIY project ;D
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2015, 10:02:23 AM »
I would rather have each capsule shockmounted rather than shockmounting my whole vark bar, which is rather heavy to shockmount. That way, I could mount my vark bars directly onto my stand and shock JUST the Schoeps caps. Seems like it would be a better shocking option than doing the whole vark bar :)

In terms of actual shock isolation its actually more effective to suspend the entire bar and capsule assembly together. The greater mass of the whole assembly has more inertia than the lightweight capsules.  The elastic shockmount and whatever is suspended with it form a resonant system based upon the spring rate of the suspension and the mass of the load.  A more massive load and/or softer spring lowers the resonant frequency of the system, which means isolation from vibration to a lower frequency. 

This is why there are lyre inserts with different spring-rates which ideally are matched with weight of the microphone.  The suspension needs to be 'wiggly enough' while still providing enough support.  Not 'wiggly enough' means not well isolated against low frequency vibration.  Stand bumps and knocks are predominantly low frequency vibrations.

Another unrelated issue is that if the entire bar is suspended, the relationship between the two capsules is locked rigidly in place- one can't wiggle independently of the other, which could conceivably cause some wobbling of the stereo image.  Not sure if that would actually be much an issue though.  If things are wiggling that much, that often for very long, you probably have more pressing issues to deal with.  The first point is of greater concern.

Of course practicality trumps both these concerns.  A single shock mounted bar is typically attractive because it is more compact, minimalist and easy to setup.  However if two separate shocks works better for you for whatever reason, there's no reason not to do that.
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2015, 10:37:03 AM »
A Vark bar with SGC clips or a fixed-angle bar works great mounted in this INV 7HG:
http://www.rycote.com/products/invision-inv-7hg-mkiii/
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 10:38:39 AM by uncleyug »
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2015, 01:48:32 PM »
So this should work just as well with my Schoeps caps, right?

Yup!

I just wish B+H had a picture of these before I order so that I know exactly what I'm getting!

It's just the "shock" portion of the INV mount; it has a hole at the base that you can put a thin screw/bolt through. With a little DIY it makes a very lightweight setup. Go for it!

Thanks for the info 8) And I always love a good DIY project ;D

FWIW, Bean, with my Schoeps, I either use a kwon bar in an INV-HG Rycote, or with Rycote INV-5s, which have a back stabilizer that works with the Schoeps caps. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?gclid=CjwKEAiAxNilBRD88r2azcqB2zsSJABy2B9617W3HmnXgV6FvGVNwk-MnvDprS1MvhH6LaGTAqxIDhoCCFTw_wcB&is=REG&sku=554997&Q=&O=&A=details

Not sure how possible that is with DPA 402x; it would not work with 4021s for sure. But yes, my Rycotes have withstood some pretty insane amounts of  noise and movement.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2015, 03:51:26 PM »

In terms of actual shock isolation its actually more effective to suspend the entire bar and capsule assembly together.
..
A more massive load and/or softer spring lowers the resonant frequency of the system, which means isolation from vibration to a lower frequency.
..
Not 'wiggly enough' means not well isolated against low frequency vibration.  Stand bumps and knocks are predominantly low frequency vibrations.

My current thinking is that the optimal shockmount setup varies depending on the situation. I have always wanted to do some controlled testing of that, exciting resonant frequencies and whatnot, but haven't gotten around to it.

There is a venue where there is a strong temptation to place your mics on a drink rail.  Unfortunately some folks like to thunk their bottles when setting them down. A few folks think knocking a bottle on a table is a good alternative to applause. I think that is a good example of a low frequency source, where a loosely coupled shockmount, and light mics, are advantageous.

Other examples are stands placed on bouncy wooden floors, excited by subwoofers or stomping feet. You've got some guy who is going to play acoustic guitar and you setup a pair of mics a few feet in front of him.  He starts playing, everything is great, then he starts stomping his foot like an absolute wild man. The stand is practically bouncing off the wooden floor. ("why didn't you tell me you were a stomper?"). That is a case where having some rubber tips on the feet of the stand may be helpful.

Whenever I have tried to mount full size bodies (cmc6's) on a bar in a single shockmount, it feels like too much mass for one shock mount, and too rigidly coupled.

I think another important factor is the loudness of the source and the amount of amplification required.  A quiet source that requires 40 or 50 dB of gain will make the mics far more sensitive to vibration than a loud show. The same is true of wind noise, and the amount of required wind protection.

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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2015, 12:13:25 PM »
I was taping Lotus at Summerdance this past Labor Day weekend, and in the last 30 minutes of the last night of music, some K-tard comes right up to my stand and starts hitting it while he was dancing and throwing his hands in the air. Had I not been injured, tired, and spaced out from a long weekend, I would've leveled this fucker. However, you can't hear it at ALL on my recording! And I mean this guy stood there for well over 5 minutes and hit my stand a total of about 75 times. He's lucky I was injured 8) But anyway, not audible on my tapes AT ALL ;D 8) And that's with my Schoeps a20s shocks!!! I did re-band them with Scunci hair ties, which make them pretty rigid, maybe a little more than a real a20s, so that's why I've had a hard time "upgrading" to the Rycotes that everyone has been praising. Because if you cant hear this guy hit my stand 75+ times, and not in a gentle manner, then they are doing exactly what I want/need them to do, and I have no need to buy different shocks. That makes me want to buy another one or two a20s shocks before summertime. I wish that someone would make a delrin version of the a20s, because they'd be indestructible and last a lifetime. However, they're made of shitty plastic and I would like to have a backup for each of my rigs :P ;D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
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Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2015, 03:42:16 PM »
My current thinking is that the optimal shockmount setup varies depending on the situation. I have always wanted to do some controlled testing of that, exciting resonant frequencies and whatnot, but haven't gotten around to it.

There is a venue where there is a strong temptation to place your mics on a drink rail.  Unfortunately some folks like to thunk their bottles when setting them down. A few folks think knocking a bottle on a table is a good alternative to applause. I think that is a good example of a low frequency source, where a loosely coupled shockmount, and light mics, are advantageous.

Other examples are stands placed on bouncy wooden floors, excited by subwoofers or stomping feet. You've got some guy who is going to play acoustic guitar and you setup a pair of mics a few feet in front of him.  He starts playing, everything is great, then he starts stomping his foot like an absolute wild man. The stand is practically bouncing off the wooden floor. ("why didn't you tell me you were a stomper?"). That is a case where having some rubber tips on the feet of the stand may be helpful.

Whenever I have tried to mount full size bodies (cmc6's) on a bar in a single shockmount, it feels like too much mass for one shock mount, and too rigidly coupled.

I think another important factor is the loudness of the source and the amount of amplification required.  A quiet source that requires 40 or 50 dB of gain will make the mics far more sensitive to vibration than a loud show. The same is true of wind noise, and the amount of required wind protection.

More massive suspended microphone assemblies can be made less prone to "handling noise" than a lighter ones.  That's because a heavier suspended mass is less susceptible to the mechanical transmission of unwanted low frequency vibration than a lighter mass due to its inertia- it takes much less energy to start a lightweight mass moving when some unwanted vibration comes along and shakes it.  Yet as a practical matter it is often much easier to suspend and rig small, lightweight microphones simply because they are, well, small and lightweight. Especially when they are perched atop a top-heavy light-stand.  It's sort of a trade-off.

Likewise, big heavy luxury cars are easier to make smooth-riding and quiet than small lightweight economy cars for the same reason. Sports cars and race cars transmit more vibration and noise into the cockpit because they are less massive and their suspensions are intentionally not as compliant for increased road feel and improved stability control with reduced body roll.

Bottle clunking and metal rail pinging may actually transmit plenty of higher frequency noise as well, but that's easier for a flexible suspension to isolate than low frequency noise.  One of the Rycote Lyre advantages is that the suspension is extremely complaint with an especially long range of motion in the axis perpendicular to the diaphragm, which is the axis in which the microphone is most susceptible to low frequency mechanical noise.  They are available in different compliances to better 'tune' the suspension to various microphone masses, the less massive the suspended microphone, the more compliant the suspension needs to be to provide acceptable vibration isolation.

Acceptable suspension performance is a "good enough" thing.  As long as it's good enough that handling noise isn't heard on the recording, other things become more important.

A higher source SPLs and resulting higher output signal level certainly helps suppress most sources of noise: mechanical  'handling noise', microphone self-noise, environmental room noise, crowd noise, wind-noise, the bar next door or stage in the next field, or whatever.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

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