Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount  (Read 15285 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

  • Trade Count: (58)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6696
Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2015, 03:51:26 PM »

In terms of actual shock isolation its actually more effective to suspend the entire bar and capsule assembly together.
..
A more massive load and/or softer spring lowers the resonant frequency of the system, which means isolation from vibration to a lower frequency.
..
Not 'wiggly enough' means not well isolated against low frequency vibration.  Stand bumps and knocks are predominantly low frequency vibrations.

My current thinking is that the optimal shockmount setup varies depending on the situation. I have always wanted to do some controlled testing of that, exciting resonant frequencies and whatnot, but haven't gotten around to it.

There is a venue where there is a strong temptation to place your mics on a drink rail.  Unfortunately some folks like to thunk their bottles when setting them down. A few folks think knocking a bottle on a table is a good alternative to applause. I think that is a good example of a low frequency source, where a loosely coupled shockmount, and light mics, are advantageous.

Other examples are stands placed on bouncy wooden floors, excited by subwoofers or stomping feet. You've got some guy who is going to play acoustic guitar and you setup a pair of mics a few feet in front of him.  He starts playing, everything is great, then he starts stomping his foot like an absolute wild man. The stand is practically bouncing off the wooden floor. ("why didn't you tell me you were a stomper?"). That is a case where having some rubber tips on the feet of the stand may be helpful.

Whenever I have tried to mount full size bodies (cmc6's) on a bar in a single shockmount, it feels like too much mass for one shock mount, and too rigidly coupled.

I think another important factor is the loudness of the source and the amount of amplification required.  A quiet source that requires 40 or 50 dB of gain will make the mics far more sensitive to vibration than a loud show. The same is true of wind noise, and the amount of required wind protection.

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Team Schoeps Tapir that
  • Trade Count: (126)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40690
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
    • MediaFire Recordings
Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2015, 12:13:25 PM »
I was taping Lotus at Summerdance this past Labor Day weekend, and in the last 30 minutes of the last night of music, some K-tard comes right up to my stand and starts hitting it while he was dancing and throwing his hands in the air. Had I not been injured, tired, and spaced out from a long weekend, I would've leveled this fucker. However, you can't hear it at ALL on my recording! And I mean this guy stood there for well over 5 minutes and hit my stand a total of about 75 times. He's lucky I was injured 8) But anyway, not audible on my tapes AT ALL ;D 8) And that's with my Schoeps a20s shocks!!! I did re-band them with Scunci hair ties, which make them pretty rigid, maybe a little more than a real a20s, so that's why I've had a hard time "upgrading" to the Rycotes that everyone has been praising. Because if you cant hear this guy hit my stand 75+ times, and not in a gentle manner, then they are doing exactly what I want/need them to do, and I have no need to buy different shocks. That makes me want to buy another one or two a20s shocks before summertime. I wish that someone would make a delrin version of the a20s, because they'd be indestructible and last a lifetime. However, they're made of shitty plastic and I would like to have a backup for each of my rigs :P ;D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15754
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: my "ultralight" DPA 402x > Rycote INV-6 XY/DIN/ORTF mount
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2015, 03:42:16 PM »
My current thinking is that the optimal shockmount setup varies depending on the situation. I have always wanted to do some controlled testing of that, exciting resonant frequencies and whatnot, but haven't gotten around to it.

There is a venue where there is a strong temptation to place your mics on a drink rail.  Unfortunately some folks like to thunk their bottles when setting them down. A few folks think knocking a bottle on a table is a good alternative to applause. I think that is a good example of a low frequency source, where a loosely coupled shockmount, and light mics, are advantageous.

Other examples are stands placed on bouncy wooden floors, excited by subwoofers or stomping feet. You've got some guy who is going to play acoustic guitar and you setup a pair of mics a few feet in front of him.  He starts playing, everything is great, then he starts stomping his foot like an absolute wild man. The stand is practically bouncing off the wooden floor. ("why didn't you tell me you were a stomper?"). That is a case where having some rubber tips on the feet of the stand may be helpful.

Whenever I have tried to mount full size bodies (cmc6's) on a bar in a single shockmount, it feels like too much mass for one shock mount, and too rigidly coupled.

I think another important factor is the loudness of the source and the amount of amplification required.  A quiet source that requires 40 or 50 dB of gain will make the mics far more sensitive to vibration than a loud show. The same is true of wind noise, and the amount of required wind protection.

More massive suspended microphone assemblies can be made less prone to "handling noise" than a lighter ones.  That's because a heavier suspended mass is less susceptible to the mechanical transmission of unwanted low frequency vibration than a lighter mass due to its inertia- it takes much less energy to start a lightweight mass moving when some unwanted vibration comes along and shakes it.  Yet as a practical matter it is often much easier to suspend and rig small, lightweight microphones simply because they are, well, small and lightweight. Especially when they are perched atop a top-heavy light-stand.  It's sort of a trade-off.

Likewise, big heavy luxury cars are easier to make smooth-riding and quiet than small lightweight economy cars for the same reason. Sports cars and race cars transmit more vibration and noise into the cockpit because they are less massive and their suspensions are intentionally not as compliant for increased road feel and improved stability control with reduced body roll.

Bottle clunking and metal rail pinging may actually transmit plenty of higher frequency noise as well, but that's easier for a flexible suspension to isolate than low frequency noise.  One of the Rycote Lyre advantages is that the suspension is extremely complaint with an especially long range of motion in the axis perpendicular to the diaphragm, which is the axis in which the microphone is most susceptible to low frequency mechanical noise.  They are available in different compliances to better 'tune' the suspension to various microphone masses, the less massive the suspended microphone, the more compliant the suspension needs to be to provide acceptable vibration isolation.

Acceptable suspension performance is a "good enough" thing.  As long as it's good enough that handling noise isn't heard on the recording, other things become more important.

A higher source SPLs and resulting higher output signal level certainly helps suppress most sources of noise: mechanical  'handling noise', microphone self-noise, environmental room noise, crowd noise, wind-noise, the bar next door or stage in the next field, or whatever.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.16 seconds with 28 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF