Topic: Any opinions on Sennheiser MKH 8020?

[dogmusic]

I wanted to move up the mic ladder somewhat (I currently have an AT4050ST and a stereo set of Beyerdynamic MC930's. I run an SD USBPre2 digital out into a SONY PCM-D50.). I wanted an omni pair and found a pretty good price (for Canada...) on a stereo set of Sennheiser MKH 8020's and I wondered what people on the forum thought of them.

I only found one review from 2009 which kind of slammed the mic. But recently on Gearslutz someone wrote "The early ones had some issues, which have apparently been addressed. If you are buying new, I'd recommend them wholeheartedly." So perhaps that reviewer was experiencing the problems of the initial units.

I know that John Willett owns them and likes them and I respect his experience and opinion, but I can't find too many other users of this mic.

There have been some comparisons to the Schoeps CMC6/MK2 (which would be far more expensive) but the 8020 is described as darker. It's also been criticized for having too boomy a bass and not enough high end. Yet others says it's one of the flatter omni's around.

I live in the sticks so it makes it hard to try out equipment and return it.

I want to use them to record grand piano sometimes, and also do field recording (outdoors soundscapes). Any opinions?

Thanks for any help on this.

[DSatz]

Beware of oversimplification re: the "flatness" of any omni; it's not a property of a microphone by itself, but of the interaction among the sound source(s), the acoustics of the recording space AND the microphone. How "flat" an omni is, depends (among other things) on how it is placed in relation to the sound source(s). An omni can be flat for direct, on-axis sound ("free-field equalized") or for sound that arrives from all angles equally ("diffuse-field equalized"), or for something in between. But an omni can't be flat in all different types of placement, unless it is so small that it would be rather noisy.

I happen to use Schoeps microphones primarily, and their product line illustrates this nicely. Please visit www.schoeps.de and look particularly at the curves for the capsules MK 2, MK 3, and MK 2S (or MK 2H as an alternative). The MK 2 fits the first description in the paragraph above: flat for direct, on-axis sound and thus very nice for studio recording, or for the occasional concert recording in which you would find it suitable to place a stereo pair fairly close to the sound sources. The MK 3 fits the second description (flat in the diffuse sound field), but it is rarely used for stereo recording, since it's really designed for more distant placement than you would usually choose, assuming that you have a choice.

The MK 2S and MK 2H on the other hand represent the type of omni typically chosen for a main stereo pair; they're at carefully chosen points between free-field and diffuse-field designs. Their published graphs show a rise in on-axis response at high frequencies, but the microphones actually sound flat when used at moderate distance from sound sources in typically reverberant performance spaces. That's because there is absorption of high frequencies in the reflected sound, and that reflected sound makes up about half (or perhaps somewhat more) of what is being picked up at those distances.

--best regards

[dogmusic]

Thanks for that explanation. It helps in my thinking about this mic.

[DSatz]

You'll have many good choices among small omnidirectional condenser microphones once you know the characteristics you're looking for. They aren't necessarily obvious, and they aren't the same for everyone. I don't suggest trying to reach the absolute ultimate in a hurry.

Also, you may want to explore patterns other than omnidirectional, since (for example) with a pair of so-called "wide cardioids" you can get about 90% of what people like most about omnis (the overall naturalness and the powerful, deep bass)--but you can also mount both microphones on a single stand and get a stable stereo image in your recordings, which omnis won't give you unless you put some kind of a separating body between them, such as a sphere or disk or dummy head.

--best regards

[F.O.Bean]

I agree, a pair of schoeps mk21 subcards would work perfectly for that scenario. I will def be buying another pair down the line!

[dogmusic]

Thanks again for these suggestions. They are definitely expanding my view of what I could use.

I have seen set-ups where two omnis have been mounted on a single stand without a physical barrier between the mics, and with good results, particularly with piano.

My attraction for the MKH 8020's is that they apparently have very good bass response which I like for field recordings and the piano. I'm wondering if their high frequency response is as good, since I've read criticism of it.

Has anyone compared the older model MKH 20 with the new MKH 8020? Would there be any advantage sound-wise to the previous model?

[John Willett]

Has anyone compared the older model MKH 20 with the new MKH 8020? Would there be any advantage sound-wise to the previous model?

I have both the MKH 20 and the MKH 8020, but have not compared the two side-by-side.

The 20 has a ruler flat frequency response, the 8020 was designed to me more "organic".

You can read "The MKH Story" here and an interview with the designers here.

They both go down low - the 20 will go down to 5Hz with a modification - the standard is 12Hz for the 20 and 10Hz for the 8020.

My next omnis, however, will be the Gefell M221 which go down to 5Hz - SOS review here.

[dogmusic]

Has anyone compared the older model MKH 20 with the new MKH 8020? Would there be any advantage sound-wise to the previous model?

I have both the MKH 20 and the MKH 8020, but have not compared the two side-by-side.

The 20 has a ruler flat frequency response, the 8020 was designed to me more "organic".

Thanks for your response, John. What does more "organic" mean? An HF lift?

I was wondering if you felt the MKH 20 had a better high end frequency response than the MKH 8020.

And since I know you use the MKH 8020 set for piano, do you feel that it's a "dark" mic as some have said, or are you satisfied with the high end of the MKH 8020 recordings?

[John Willett]

Has anyone compared the older model MKH 20 with the new MKH 8020? Would there be any advantage sound-wise to the previous model?

I have both the MKH 20 and the MKH 8020, but have not compared the two side-by-side.

The 20 has a ruler flat frequency response, the 8020 was designed to me more "organic".

Thanks for your response, John. What does more "organic" mean? An HF lift?

I was wondering if you felt the MKH 20 had a better high end frequency response than the MKH 8020.

And since I know you use the MKH 8020 set for piano, do you feel that it's a "dark" mic as some have said, or are you satisfied with the high end of the MKH 8020 recordings?

The MKH 20 falls off very quickly after 20kHz - the 8020 goes all the way up to 60kHz.

Read the article I linked to with the interview with the designers - it tells you a lot about the design.

Despite the 8020 not having such a flat response as the 20, the designer still says that the 8000 series is the most uncoloured mics they do.

[dogmusic]

Has anyone compared the older model MKH 20 with the new MKH 8020? Would there be any advantage sound-wise to the previous model?

I have both the MKH 20 and the MKH 8020, but have not compared the two side-by-side.

The 20 has a ruler flat frequency response, the 8020 was designed to me more "organic".

Thanks for your response, John. What does more "organic" mean? An HF lift?

I was wondering if you felt the MKH 20 had a better high end frequency response than the MKH 8020.

And since I know you use the MKH 8020 set for piano, do you feel that it's a "dark" mic as some have said, or are you satisfied with the high end of the MKH 8020 recordings?

The MKH 20 falls off very quickly after 20kHz - the 8020 goes all the way up to 60kHz.

Read the article I linked to with the interview with the designers - it tells you a lot about the design.

Despite the 8020 not having such a flat response as the 20, the designer still says that the 8000 series is the most uncoloured mics they do.

Thanks again.

[cashandkerouac]

not much to add to the discussion other than to say i own a pair of MKH8020 mics and like them a lot.  i don't get many opportunities to run them, as the MKH8040 (cardioid) is my main "go-to" mic and is the right tool for most of the shows i record. 

if you are not totally set on an omni mic you might want to check out the MKH8090 wide cardioid.  http://en-us.sennheiser.com/studio-condenser-microphone-cardioid-recordings-orchestral-mkh-8090     

[F.O.Bean]

not much to add to the discussion other than to say i own a pair of MKH8020 mics and like them a lot.  i don't get many opportunities to run them, as the MKH8040 (cardioid) is my main "go-to" mic and is the right tool for most of the shows i record. 

if you are not totally set on an omni mic you might want to check out the MKH8090 wide cardioid.  http://en-us.sennheiser.com/studio-condenser-microphone-cardioid-recordings-orchestral-mkh-8090     

I'd get those subcards for recording piano

[John Willett]

not much to add to the discussion other than to say i own a pair of MKH8020 mics and like them a lot.  i don't get many opportunities to run them, as the MKH8040 (cardioid) is my main "go-to" mic and is the right tool for most of the shows i record. 

if you are not totally set on an omni mic you might want to check out the MKH8090 wide cardioid.  http://en-us.sennheiser.com/studio-condenser-microphone-cardioid-recordings-orchestral-mkh-8090     

I'd get those subcards for recording piano

I prefer omnis for piano

[F.O.Bean]

not much to add to the discussion other than to say i own a pair of MKH8020 mics and like them a lot.  i don't get many opportunities to run them, as the MKH8040 (cardioid) is my main "go-to" mic and is the right tool for most of the shows i record. 

if you are not totally set on an omni mic you might want to check out the MKH8090 wide cardioid.  http://en-us.sennheiser.com/studio-condenser-microphone-cardioid-recordings-orchestral-mkh-8090     

I'd get those subcards for recording piano

I prefer omnis for piano

I guess Im just not a huge fan of omnis. The subcards could be placed on one stand tho and still get an amazing stereo image. Omnis, however, would optimally be split to sound the best on each of their own stands

[John Willett]

I guess Im just not a huge fan of omnis. The subcards could be placed on one stand tho and still get an amazing stereo image. Omnis, however, would optimally be split to sound the best on each of their own stands

I don't agree - for grand piano I nearly always use 20cm spaced omnis on a stereo bar on a single stand.

For a live performance I use the MKH 8020s on a Y-cable and the dedicated Sennheiser MKH8000 system stand - great results and almost invisible to the audience.

Also - you don't need a "great stereo image" with a solo grand piano, that's why 20cm spaced omnis are so great for this.