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Author Topic: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....  (Read 27456 times)

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Offline bdasilva

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Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« on: September 11, 2005, 12:35:51 PM »
For you tapers that have run these... Could a set of AT853s w/ phantom power and all the caps be good enough to be your only set of mics?
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Offline The Kilted Taper

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2005, 12:44:47 PM »
I wouldn't see why not. You could do a lot worse.
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Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2005, 03:31:44 PM »
For you tapers that have run these... Could a set of AT853s w/ phantom power and all the caps be good enough to be your only set of mics?

I'm using my AT853's a lot, and my answer is yes.  You can either use phantom power, or "three wire" battery power.  (I use a home-made battery box for this.)  Standard two wire power (eg., Soundprofessionals) will distort.

But you should probably be a little more careful about placement.  I've gotten great results running up close, either stack tapes,
or wearing them close up in the crowd.  Sometimes these are the best places to be anyway, eg., when you've got a bad room.  If you're taping farther away, like from the section, they don't sound as good (IMO).  I don't know why.  Anyway, in this case I'd try to get a board feed to compensate.  Mixed together it will sound great though!

  Richard
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
Pre/ADC: Presonus Firepod & Firebox, DMIC20(x2), UA5(poorly-modded, AD8620+AD8512opamps), VX440
Recorders: Edirol R4, R09, IBM X24 laptop, NJB3(x2), HiMD(x2), MD(1).
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Offline Sanjay

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2005, 03:34:16 PM »
For you tapers that have run these... Could a set of AT853s w/ phantom power and all the caps be good enough to be your only set of mics?

I'm using my AT853's a lot, and my answer is yes.  You can either use phantom power, or "three wire" battery power.  (I use a home-made battery box for this.)  Standard two wire power (eg., Soundprofessionals) will distort.




how would such three wire battery power be done?  Is there a diagram around for this?
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Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2005, 03:49:25 PM »
For you tapers that have run these... Could a set of AT853s w/ phantom power and all the caps be good enough to be your only set of mics?

I'm using my AT853's a lot, and my answer is yes.  You can either use phantom power, or "three wire" battery power.  (I use a home-made battery box for this.)  Standard two wire power (eg., Soundprofessionals) will distort.




how would such three wire battery power be done?  Is there a diagram around for this?

There is a thread about this:
 http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=18846.0;all
but this is for connecting the Samson adapters.  But I don't really trust the Samson quality.  I would try to use AT adapters only.

My homemade box is as follows:

There are three wires on each mic: Red, Yellow and Shield.  (Well, red and yellow are really a twisted pair, both containing the
same signal.)

Connect Red on each mic to + on a 9V battery.  Shields to battery negative terminal.
Put a load resistor (say 22K or 27K) between yellow and shield for each mic (two resistors).
Put a capacitor (say 2.2uF metal film) from the yellow wire to audio output (two capacitors).
Take audio outputs from the film capacitor (side opposite yellow wire) and from ground.
That's it!

Note: I soldered everything to avoid connectors between the batt. box and the mics.  I glued all the parts on top of a battery holder.  I run a single 3.5mm stereo plug out to minidisc/dat/etc.

The battery holder is about $5 at Newark.com (P/N 92C3807).
 
To start the power, just insert 9V battery on sliding tray.  Remove after show.

I'll post pictures of this if I can.  Well, the problem is after glueing I wrapped everything in shrinkwrap so you can't see the wiring.

  Richard
« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 03:52:38 PM by poorlyconditioned »
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
Pre/ADC: Presonus Firepod & Firebox, DMIC20(x2), UA5(poorly-modded, AD8620+AD8512opamps), VX440
Recorders: Edirol R4, R09, IBM X24 laptop, NJB3(x2), HiMD(x2), MD(1).
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Offline Sanjay

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2005, 03:59:20 PM »
sweet and a big +T 

I have done the mod with the samson adapters before, piece of cake, but I wanted to make a box without the samson adapters and still achieve the same sound result.

So basically with your battery box, your AT's sound like the phantom powered mics but they don't have to use phantom or the stupid adapters do they?

If so this is exactly what I need, and i may put in a stepped gain stage in my box too.  I'll be plugging the mini xlr's into it

thanks thanks thanks again.
-sanjay
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Offline spyder9

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2005, 04:13:45 PM »
Get the AT853RX and fahgeddaboutdit!  Great for stealth and very good for open in the TS. Won't compete w/ the TS mics (AKGs, Schoeps, or Neumanns), but if you are the only taper, your recordings will be the schnizzle!   Guaranteed.  ;D

Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2005, 04:34:53 PM »
Get the AT853RX and fahgeddaboutdit!  Great for stealth and very good for open in the TS. Won't compete w/ the TS mics (AKGs, Schoeps, or Neumanns), but if you are the only taper, your recordings will be the schnizzle!   Guaranteed.  ;D

I agree, AT853Rx are great.  For convenience, just plug into phantom power.

But if you want to do both stealth *and* open, having a small battery box and no phantom adapter and power module is even better.  It saves money too *if* you can bodies and capsules cheaper (eg., Ebay).  But you'll have to look pretty hard to beat the killer AT853Rx prices though ($145 each at alphasoundandlighting.com).

I've tried both configurations (proper 3-wire batt box vs. phantom) and don't notice any difference in sound quality.

  Richard

PS: If you've recording quiet stuff, like acoustic or unamplified music, you are going to notice a small amount of noise on the AT853's though.  Not terrible, but if that's your gig, you'll want something better.

  Richard
« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 04:38:01 PM by poorlyconditioned »
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
Pre/ADC: Presonus Firepod & Firebox, DMIC20(x2), UA5(poorly-modded, AD8620+AD8512opamps), VX440
Recorders: Edirol R4, R09, IBM X24 laptop, NJB3(x2), HiMD(x2), MD(1).
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Offline jeromejello

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2005, 05:02:48 PM »
i'll fluff the at853's as well.  personally i think they are the best set of under 800/pair mics out there.

richard... you need to put up some pics of that 3 wire battery box.  >:D

i would love to ditch both the ps-2 and the spsb-7 for a well crafted 3 wire battery box.  ideally in an otterbox (although i would consider something else smaller) with mini xlr inputs and stepped gain would be nice (say 10-15-20 db)

open: mbho 603a (ka200n/ka500hn) > SD MP-2 > PCM-M10
stealth: AT853a (o/sc/c/h) > SD MP-2 > ihp120
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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2005, 07:50:54 PM »
i'll fluff the at853's as well.  personally i think they are the best set of under 800/pair mics out there.

richard... you need to put up some pics of that 3 wire battery box.  >:D

i would love to ditch both the ps-2 and the spsb-7 for a well crafted 3 wire battery box.  ideally in an otterbox (although i would consider something else smaller) with mini xlr inputs and stepped gain would be nice (say 10-15-20 db)



I've got a prototype built already, built one this afternoon, I had the gain stages built previously, and I was working on a 48v phantom circuit for the adapters to integrate into one box, but if there is no quality difference between 3 wire and phantom I will simply do a 3 wire part.  Right now I have it built into a metal box about the size of a pack of cigarettes.  However I plan to make it smaller.
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Offline Chad817

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2005, 07:55:39 PM »
this is pretty interesting.  so if i'm hearing this right, one of these 3 wire batt box jobs could give the performance benefits of phantom power without modding the cables?  I have a pair of soundpro cmc-4's that I've been meaning to get phantom modded, but maybe this would be an easier solution to bump up their performance.
studio projects c4 > edirol ua-5 [digi mod] > Microtrack II

laying around: sp cmc-4, power supply and jb3

Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2005, 08:52:17 PM »
this is pretty interesting.  so if i'm hearing this right, one of these 3 wire batt box jobs could give the performance benefits of phantom power without modding the cables?  I have a pair of soundpro cmc-4's that I've been meaning to get phantom modded, but maybe this would be an easier solution to bump up their performance.

Yeah, I would give it a try.  For new users, go ahead and score the cheap ($145) AT853rx.  But for those who already have the SP or other ones, go ahead and try a 3-wire box.

By the way, there is no gain here.  In fact, in 3-wire mode, the mics will output a little *less* than the standard (SP, etc) batt. box.
Maybe something like 3 or 6dB less.  Anyway, there is no gain (or attenuation) in my unit.  Just power.

Photos coming...

  Richard
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
Pre/ADC: Presonus Firepod & Firebox, DMIC20(x2), UA5(poorly-modded, AD8620+AD8512opamps), VX440
Recorders: Edirol R4, R09, IBM X24 laptop, NJB3(x2), HiMD(x2), MD(1).
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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2005, 10:04:34 PM »
i'll fluff the at853's as well.  personally i think they are the best set of under 800/pair mics out there.

richard... you need to put up some pics of that 3 wire battery box.  >:D

i would love to ditch both the ps-2 and the spsb-7 for a well crafted 3 wire battery box.  ideally in an otterbox (although i would consider something else smaller) with mini xlr inputs and stepped gain would be nice (say 10-15-20 db)



Dang , you Indian folks are smart! ;)

I've got a prototype built already, built one this afternoon, I had the gain stages built previously, and I was working on a 48v phantom circuit for the adapters to integrate into one box, but if there is no quality difference between 3 wire and phantom I will simply do a 3 wire part.  Right now I have it built into a metal box about the size of a pack of cigarettes.  However I plan to make it smaller.

Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853. *batt. box photos included*
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2005, 12:31:58 AM »
i'll fluff the at853's as well.  personally i think they are the best set of under 800/pair mics out there.

richard... you need to put up some pics of that 3 wire battery box.  >:D

i would love to ditch both the ps-2 and the spsb-7 for a well crafted 3 wire battery box.  ideally in an otterbox (although i would consider something else smaller) with mini xlr inputs and stepped gain would be nice (say 10-15-20 db)



I've got a prototype built already, built one this afternoon, I had the gain stages built previously, and I was working on a 48v phantom circuit for the adapters to integrate into one box, but if there is no quality difference between 3 wire and phantom I will simply do a 3 wire part.  Right now I have it built into a metal box about the size of a pack of cigarettes.  However I plan to make it smaller.

You're using an opamp for gain, right?  If so, what chip are you using?  I built a simple circuit using an OPA2134 chip.

OK, I just took some photos:


My full AT853 rig, including a headphone mount (bought from Soundprofessionals.com, modified by me to wear around neck), a home-made battery box (3-wire), a home-made preamp, a minidisc, and a set of Shure E3 in-ear monitors.


Battery box and preamp box.


Battery box circuit.  (Preamp not shown, but standard design.)


Wearing the mics.


Removed windscreens, elements are approx. 90deg apart.

   Richard
« Last Edit: September 12, 2005, 03:08:15 AM by poorlyconditioned »
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
Pre/ADC: Presonus Firepod & Firebox, DMIC20(x2), UA5(poorly-modded, AD8620+AD8512opamps), VX440
Recorders: Edirol R4, R09, IBM X24 laptop, NJB3(x2), HiMD(x2), MD(1).
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Offline Humbug

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Re: Cheap and compact... AT853 as your only mics....
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2005, 10:48:06 AM »
+t, and again in 12.

Lots of effort there, particularly liked the "mad prof" style blackboard circuit diagram.
UK based taper: MK4>Nbox Platinum>PCM-M10
AT853C>CA9200 / PIPsqueak>Tascam DR-2D

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