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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: su6oxone on January 01, 2011, 01:55:58 AM
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With the help of Darktrain and Naiant, I've put together an ultra low profile Schoeps CCM setup that is reminiscent of the CMR/Tinybox (or battery box) setup that Darktrain and others (jerryfreak?) pioneered and popularized in the past year.
I was intrigued by the CMR setup and asked Jon of Naiant if the Tinybox could power the CCM mics (reterminated to TA5) since it can provide 12V of phantom power. His answer was yes (and I asked Schoeps customer service as well and they said that theoretically there was no reason it would not work) and Darktrain was kind enough to reterminate the Lg cables (possibly the first time it's been done).
The main difference between this setup and the CMR/Tinybox setup is primarily that this setup utilizes CCM mics instead of the MK+CMR, and because it uses CCM mics the powering is different, utilizing 12V phantom that the Tinybox can provide (but not 48V).
So, the setup is:
Schoeps CCM > Schoeps Lg cables (could be the Ug variety as well) reterminated from XLR (x2) to a single TA5 female (5-pin mini-XLR) > Tinybox v1.0 (with TA5 male jack) > Recorder (you can throw in a TA5 extension cable in the middle to use it with a stand, or without it when doing stealth work)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_MvjfYrxJCeg/TR7LriSiyAI/AAAAAAAAUmQ/rpi8TurfSvQ/s640/IMG_5156.JPG)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_MvjfYrxJCeg/TR7MBmuTM4I/AAAAAAAAUq8/H-AoksvzAPo/s640/IMG_5158.JPG)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_MvjfYrxJCeg/TR7M8_fsxsI/AAAAAAAAUrU/8_vIZe5PysI/s640/IMG_5164.JPG)
Huge thanks to Darktrain for reterminating the Lg cables and providing the TA5 extension cable (utilizing all 5 pins due to requirements of phantom powering) and to Jon (Naiant) for making the P12 version of the Tinybox. Without them and their skill/craftsmanship/devices, none of this would have been possible. The Tinybox v1.0 is especially nice because it has the inputs/outputs on the same top panel and so this setup can easily be used for stealthing purposes (slip it into a pocket).
The main drawback of this setup is that it lacks the ability to switch capsules that the CMR has, but if you own or prefer to use CCMs, then this is a nice setup. And you can use just one set of Lg and extension cables and can 'switch' between different sets of CCM mics.
I haven't tested it out in real life yet, or done any batter life testing, but Jon estimates that the lithium battery may last some 10 hours with P12 to the CCMs, which would be incredible, and comparable to the Sound Devices 702 with a Sony 6600mAh battery that I was using previously.
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Very nice! You could also get a Naiant PFA adapter which would optionally put XLRs back in the setup in case you ever wanted to use a different preamp.
http://www.naiant.com/naiant/inlinedevices.html
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Most bad-ass (albeit expensive) lowpro setup yet. Congrats and nice work to all.
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Thanks guys, I'm pretty happy with it so far although I have yet to actually try it in the field. Re: XLR adapters, I don't need those right now since I have an extra pair of Lg cables with XLR connectors still on them (in case I want to run it with my Marantz 661 or something else). The CCMs are nice in that the Lg cables are relatively cheap (compared to KC5/KCY actives and CMR) at about $190/pair (unterminated if desired, and up to 16' long) so they're more affordable to replace/add if needed or desired.
I don't have anything to record for at least a few weeks but I'll post some samples/links when I do finally get a chance to run them.
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Very nice! Sorry for the thread hijack here but....would love to know if one could re-terminate a KCY to a TA5 (5pin mini xlr) in order to run MKx > KCY > Naiant LB instead of the current options of MKx > KCY to either 1)VMS-02IB or 2)VMS-5U or 3) VST62iu or 4) NBox or 4) Lemosax. Anyone know?
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^^ I'd be curious to know that too... Hadn't even thought about that...
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^^ I'd be curious to know that too... Hadn't even thought about that...
especially with the tinyboxes that will do polarization voltage. Yes, it would be 48v polarization and not the 60v spec, but neither is the lemosax.
What would be really nice is a KCY > TA5 adaptor so you can re-sell the cables later if needed.
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Reterminating a KC5/KCY cable to a TA5 is an interesting idea, although I always figured you couldn't just reterminate them since they're actually 'actives' and not just passive extension cables. Perhaps Mr. DSatz could chime in... 8)
Also, with the Tinybox v1.5, it seems that you could also use TA6 and not necessarily just TA5 (which is only in the Tinybox v1.0 I believe).
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Is it weird that I get a chubby over stuff like this?
Just like the AKG stuff jon at Naiant is taking on.
Looking good brother, cant wait to hear the results as I've always dug the ccm's for some reason.
Just always out of price range. Dead sexy though.
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littlebox is capable of having a dedicated "active" input as well as regular P48 XLR inputs.
That sounds interesting!
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I'm running a battery life test on the CCM4 > Tinybox > M10 setup right now (since last night), and incredibly it's still going strong at over 15 hours. The Tinybox is set at 0 gain (my Tinybox has 0/+10/+20dB gain settings) but don't know if having higher gain would decrease battery life. The M10 is still going strong too (with the LCD on continuously for over 15 hours and recording at 24/44.1).
edit: so the Tinybox lasted between 15-16 hours (didn't check it in between) powering a pair of CCM4 with 12V phantom power with gain at '0' and outputting to a M10 (which is still going)... pretty impressive!
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su6, I don't know anything about the "Tinybox" but just as a rule of thumb, with Schoeps CCMs or CMC 6 amplifiers 12-Volt phantom powering is twice as efficient as 48-Volt. 12 Volts at 8 mA is only 96 mW, while 48 Volts at 4 mA is 192 mW. There's no difference in the microphones' performance in either mode, so for battery-operated recording, the choice is clear.
--best regards
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Gain does not affect battery life, the main draw is the phantom power load. Unless you plug in a heavy load like headphones, neither gain nor output level will make any difference in battery life. 16 hours sounds about right for 2x CCMs (12V/8mA each).
Good to know, thanks. 15+ hours is more than I could have hoped for.
su6, I don't know anything about the "Tinybox" but just as a rule of thumb, with Schoeps CCMs or CMC 6 amplifiers 12-Volt phantom powering is twice as efficient as 48-Volt. 12 Volts at 8 mA is only 96 mW, while 48 Volts at 4 mA is 192 mW. There's no difference in the microphones' performance in either mode, so for battery-operated recording, the choice is clear.
--best regards
Thank you kindly, appreciate the info. Too bad so many devices only provide P48, it would be great for Schoeps users if they could also provide P12.
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nice, i like the extra cable for stand taping
now onto active ck6x :D
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It should be possible; Schoeps shows the KCY pinout as +58V, +6V, signal, signal, and ground. littlebox can provide +48V; tinybox v1.5 can do +45V. I might stick a +60V (or even much higher, maybe into plate supply territory) capability into the next littlebox version, but that's six months out. littlebox is capable of having a dedicated "active" input as well as regular P48 XLR inputs.
FWIW, Sonosax SX-M2/LS2 pinout reported here (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=59577.msg791987#msg791987), confirming the Sonosax SX-M2/LS2 (aka Lemosax) only provides 48v to the capsules. Schoeps provided the following answer on the impact of using only 48V instead of 60V:
When you connect the MK capsules to the Sonosax with 48V powering they will have a 1.9dB lower sensitivity - that`s all.[/i]
So sounds like you wouldn't need to bother changing the Tinybox to put out +60V.
I don't know the connector type for the KCY.
Could've sworn I've seen the part #, but couldn't find it. I'll update the post if I find it.
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Schoeps KCY cables use 711 series Binder connectors:
http://www.binder-usa.com/ (http://www.binder-usa.com/)
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Schoeps KCY cables use 711 series Binder connectors:
http://www.binder-usa.com/ (http://www.binder-usa.com/)
Cool. My ancient Beyerdynamic actives use Binder 711, the three pin version. I love these connectors. They lock in really nice and are easy to solder to.
Richard
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So, it took a little while before I got a chance to finally test out the CCM > Tinybox setup, but I finally got to use them for a show last night and it turned out pretty good. It was super easy to setup and use and extremely compact, and the nice surprise was that the TA5 extension cable pretty much 'coiled' itself when I was breaking down the rig. 8) I forgot to take any rig pics but here are the LMA links to the two bands I taped (Tea Leaf Green and Matisyahu):
http://www.archive.org/details/tealeafgreen2011-07-30.ccm41.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/tealeafgreen2011-07-30.ccm41.flac16)
http://www.archive.org/details/matisyahu2011-07-30.ccm41.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/matisyahu2011-07-30.ccm41.flac16)
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Is it weird that I get a chubby over stuff like this?
no, not at all. that's a very, very cool setup.