Topic: edirol r-44 or fostex fr2-le

[stirinthesauce]

So you like the R-44 more than the Tascam? 

Manuel

The tascam is a mighty fine unit.  There are aspects of it that I like better, mainly the larger display.  However, with that stated, I have not regretted the move to the r-44 one bit.  It is a fantastic unit.

[Manuell]

Today I went to the music store and had the edirol r-44 and the fostex fr2-le in my hands. The r-44 felt way more comfortable in my hands and it has the better display.
In my eyes seeing both together, the fostex didn't look that much smaller. The edirol looks much more professional  and with its four channels I think it is the better choice.

Manuel

[willndmb]

imo its totally 2 vs 4
if you are not going to use or need 4 ch then its not worth the extra cash
if you are then its totally worth it
i mean we are talking 300+

[Ozpeter]

Sods law of channels -

the number of channels you need is the number of channels you've got - plus one.

[John Willett]

Sods law of channels -

the number of channels you need is the number of channels you've got - plus one.

Too true   

[flintstone]

Well, the R-44 would be a good choice if
1.  You need four channels (duh!)
2.  You don't need the very quiet preamp found in the FR2-LE
3.  You don't mind lugging around an extra 400 g (14 oz)
4.  You're OK with an external battery pack
     (the FR-2LE has a great internal battery solution)
5.  You have 50% more money to spend ($600 vs $900 retail)

Somebody needs to buy Oade's mod R-44 ($915) and tell
us how much the preamp is improved.

Flintstone

[Manuell]

The preamp is not as good as in the fr2-le?
I can get the r-44 for 650,- euro and the fr2-le for 470,- euro.
With four channels I can record the audience in stereo an also get the sound from a mixer in stereo, that's much more better for me :-)

What would you say about the rode NT-5?

I want to record rock festivals and atmosphere for film. I think two Rode NT-5 would be better than the beyerdynamic mce 72.

Manuel

[Ozpeter]

I'm not aware of any accurate comparisons online between the FR2-LE and the R-44 preamps.  General consensus seems to be that the R-44 preamps are fine for music including acoustic, and the only time you might notice any noise would be at very high gains in nature recordings.

I believe some side by side comparisons between the stock R-44 and the Oade modified R-44 are in the works when a chance arises.  Without side by side and/or careful before and after measurements it would be pretty hard to judge.

[flintstone]

"the only time you might notice any noise would be at very high gains in nature recordings..."

Or during quiet passages in music performances.  Even rock bands pause between power chords sometimes.
To my ear, the R-44 has a more noticeable "tape hiss" preamp sound than the FR-2LE does.  If it didn't, what
faults would Oade's mod correct?

[Manuell]

Hmmm that's not what I wanted to hear 
because I also want to record some unplugged stuff. I need to test the edirol if it is ok for me but I thought they play in the same league but maybe the difference is very small because I felt in love with the edirol 

Manuel

[Ozpeter]

To my ear, the R-44 has a more noticeable "tape hiss" preamp sound than the FR-2LE does.

Ah, then there is someone who has been able to compare!  Were you able to use the same mics on both and make some comparison level-playing-field recordings?  That would be good to know.

Even rock bands pause between power chords sometimes.

In classical concert hall recordings of chamber music where you'd expect to be running the preamps at higher gains than for a rock concert, if you are reproducing the sound at realistic levels, from my experience I would expect the noise level from the preamps to be below the noise level within the hall.  For a rock recording, it would have to be a pretty awed audience to make less noise between the power chords than a classical one - at risk of sounding prejudiced!  The preamps would be running at significantly lower gain.  I hate to think how loud you'd have to listen to the power chords to hear any preamp noise in between with almost any recorder that wasn't downright defective.

A while back I posted a sample made up of a short bit of string quartet recorded on location crossfaded into studio silence - nobody suggested there was any problem with it.  I might see if I can find it again.

Edit: - yup this was it.  http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,103270.msg1382143/topicseen.html#msg1382143 and the next post.

[Ozpeter]

This might be interesting if anyone can bother giving it a try -

I've made a 256kbs mp3 about one minute long.  It starts with the R-44 string quartet fragment.  Then comes some digital silence.  Then comes some 'studio silence' getting louder through to the end.  I'd be interested to know at what point (seconds) you are sure you can hear the studio silence.

So the way to do it is to first listen (maybe a few times) just to the short music part, and set the playback volume at a normal, realistic level.  Then play through past the end of the music at that level, and note the time that you are sure you hear the noise.  Ideally, report whether you first hear background sound, hum, or preamp hiss.

After people have had a chance to try it I'll reveal how much amplification was added to the noise at which point, though you could work that out with a DAW anyway.  That might give some interesting evidence about practical signal vs noise audibility and what effective margin the R-44 has.

Obviously, don't watch any meters or spectral displays as your eyes will guide your ears, and don't turn up the level beyond normal.

The file is at http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/22/1451533/R-44%20graduated%20noise.mp3

[digifish_music]

"the only time you might notice any noise would be at very high gains in nature recordings..."

Or during quiet passages in music performances.  Even rock bands pause between power chords sometimes.
To my ear, the R-44 has a more noticeable "tape hiss" preamp sound than the FR-2LE does.  If it didn't, what
faults would Oade's mod correct?

from the site...

Edirol R44 Concert upgrade rebuilds the mic preamps using high speed, low noise and very low distortion op amps that dramatically improve fine detail and clarity. Components are selected by ear to optimize detail and imaging for recording music. Improvements are also made to reduce the audible digital noise that contaminates the analog signal path with noise generated by the display.

It's not clear to me that the Oade mod improves S/N. I notice the marketing says 'using high speed, low noise and very low distortion op amps', this does not say anything about the relative noise performance since no specs are posted and it's not clear the quieter/low distortion op-amps achieve this alone. BTW I never saw/heard any digi-noise in the R44, it's superb from what I can see on that front.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,103270.msg1418367.html#msg1418367

I agree with OZPeter for normal performance recording, however the R44 preamps are indeed marginal for audio-magnification purposes. The two highest gain settings are unusable for ambiance/quietude/distant quiet sources. I BTW use a MixPre + R09 and more recently an R09HR and it's excellent for any quietude work.

digifish

[digifish_music]

BTW: I just noticed Colin seems to have both units...

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,103270.msg1419702.html#msg1419702

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,103270.msg1419762.html#msg1419762

Perhaps he can be persuaded to post some examples of both units.

digifish

[Colin Liston]

BTW: I just noticed Colin seems to have both units...

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,103270.msg1419702.html#msg1419702

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,103270.msg1419762.html#msg1419762

Perhaps he can be persuaded to post some examples of both units.

digifish

You are right, I do own both.  I made a couple of samples of just the preamp with the gain cranked but my laptop with soundforge and cdwave isn't working so I haven't been able to trim the samples down to size.  I'll see what I can do later tonight.
I have not had a chance to record any shows with the R44 yet so I can't post any samples of loud rock shows, but maybe I can set something up in front of my stereo.

Where should I post the samples?  Sendspace?  Any other places?