Topic: Neumann SKM-140 vs. Sennhesier MKH-8040ST? drop opinions here ~~>

[fleish]

If I were to roll the dice today I would roll them for a whole new set of mics and KEEP the 140's, so that might be what I do.

Slut. It. Up.

[John Willett]

  the 8050s come in real handy when you're stuck in the back of a venue or if you want to (or need to) minimize the impact of crowd noise on the sides.  also, the 8050s still pull plenty of bottom end, so you're really not sacrificing much (if any) with the supercards.

Sennheiser with pair-match the MKH 8050s on special order if you say you want them pair-matched when ordering.

[BusDriver]

Another point to consider ... purchase only the MKH-80x0 cap of choice and the MZL 8003 cables and terminate however you choose ...  XLR / mini 6 pin for tiny box / etc after determining correct pinout.

There is no need to use the XLR mic body component. I don't know how they would price out, but they are all available as separates. This was confirmed to me by Sennheiser. John Willett may want to comment

[cashandkerouac]

  the 8050s come in real handy when you're stuck in the back of a venue or if you want to (or need to) minimize the impact of crowd noise on the sides.  also, the 8050s still pull plenty of bottom end, so you're really not sacrificing much (if any) with the supercards.

Sennheiser with pair-match the MKH 8050s on special order if you say you want them pair-matched when ordering.

John:
     that's no longer the case (at least officially).  when i ordered mine early this year from Full Compass my rep told me that a "matching request" was not a problem.  when the order went in to Sennheiser they said they no longer do matched pairs because the tolerances were already so tight during thr manufacturing and quality control process.  they did, however, offer to send me the two mics with closely matched serial numbers that were the most closely matched. 
     to be honest, i think i really did get a matched stereo pair.  Sennheiser, for whatever reason, just didn't want to officially say that.  perhaps all the requests for matched pairs became troublesome.  i'm thrilled with my 8050s and the customer service from Full Compass and Sennheiser has been great!   

[John Willett]

Another point to consider ... purchase only the MKH-80x0 cap of choice and the MZL 8003 cables and terminate however you choose ...  XLR / mini 6 pin for tiny box / etc after determining correct pinout.

There is no need to use the XLR mic body component. I don't know how they would price out, but they are all available as separates. This was confirmed to me by Sennheiser. John Willett may want to comment

Yes - this is fine, but the heads are individuals only, they don't do matched stereosets.

You would have to request individual matching.

[John Willett]

  the 8050s come in real handy when you're stuck in the back of a venue or if you want to (or need to) minimize the impact of crowd noise on the sides.  also, the 8050s still pull plenty of bottom end, so you're really not sacrificing much (if any) with the supercards.

Sennheiser with pair-match the MKH 8050s on special order if you say you want them pair-matched when ordering.

John:
     that's no longer the case (at least officially).  when i ordered mine early this year from Full Compass my rep told me that a "matching request" was not a problem.  when the order went in to Sennheiser they said they no longer do matched pairs because the tolerances were already so tight during thr manufacturing and quality control process.  they did, however, offer to send me the two mics with closely matched serial numbers that were the most closely matched. 
     to be honest, i think i really did get a matched stereo pair.  Sennheiser, for whatever reason, just didn't want to officially say that.  perhaps all the requests for matched pairs became troublesome.  i'm thrilled with my 8050s and the customer service from Full Compass and Sennheiser has been great!

This is correct with the old MKH 20/30/40 series, but the 8000 series are glued and only have a 1mm or less edging.  This makes it more difficult to get the very fine pair matching.  The stereosets are individually matched and don't have consecutive serial numbers.

Unless Sennheiser have changed the manufacturing process in the last 18 months or so.

When I worked for Sennheiser, it was me who got them to offer pair-matching on the 8050 as they did not offer it as standard.

[Big Perm]

Screw it, go digital! You will not regret it!!
a

[chinariderstl]

Marking thread, if I ever move away from my full-body AKG's (to something smaller), these are my top two choices... so far.  (And I haven't a clue which, if any, way I'd lean.)

[rigpimp]

So tell me again why I would want a Supercardioid versus a Cardiod polar pattern.  What good will the lobe be if I mostly record on stage?

My loaner pair of 8040's should be here today or tomorrow.  If they make it in time I will run them Saturday night at the Henhouse Prowlers in Cape Girardeau with my 140's lined up right along with them.

[cashandkerouac]

for on stage placement i'd go with the cardioid 8040s. 

So tell me again why I would want a Supercardioid versus a Cardiod polar pattern.  What good will the lobe be if I mostly record on stage?

My loaner pair of 8040's should be here today or tomorrow.  If they make it in time I will run them Saturday night at the Henhouse Prowlers in Cape Girardeau with my 140's lined up right along with them.

[yltfan]

So tell me again why I would want a Supercardioid versus a Cardiod polar pattern.  What good will the lobe be if I mostly record on stage?

What good does the lobe ever do?

[rigpimp]

What good does the lobe ever do?

+T

[rigpimp]

Marking thread, if I ever move away from my full-body AKG's (to something smaller), these are my top two choices... so far.  (And I haven't a clue which, if any, way I'd lean.)

Are you coming to Bloom Heavy?  If so you'll see me running the 8040's alongside my 140's.

[Gutbucket]

So tell me again why I would want a Supercardioid versus a Cardiod polar pattern.  What good will the lobe be if I mostly record on stage?

What good does the lobe ever do?

Haven't used either of these mic lines personally, but can't resist playing the devils advocate. Here's a few potential good things about the rear lobe-

It makes X/Y a viable choice if you want to run an X/Y config (IMHO. I dislike X/Y with cards except for close mic'ing, yet using supercards can be work pretty well, somewhat like directional blumlein).

For similar reasons, it helps some other non-X/Y configs work correctly (thinking about configs not used around here much, specifically 3 channel OCT) by picking up a small amount of reverse polarity content at a reduced level from the opposite direction.

The traditional Senn supercard response is also interesting in that they chose a pattern where the off-axis sensitivity at +/- 90 degrees is the same as the sensitivity at 180 degress (both are 6dB down from on-axis I believe) [edit- both are 10dB down].  I assume the newer 8050 is the same.  John please correct me if I'm off on this.

So there are some specific reasons to desire the rear lobe, but as you are well aware, the primary reasons for choosing supercards over cardioids is not the rear lobe in itself, but their higher ratio of sensitivity to on-axis sound in comparison to all other combined directions; their conical rearward null pattern; and their generally reduced low frequency sensitivity at the distances we record, including on-stage.

All that said, cardioids are probably a better choice generally for most on-stage 2-channel configs.

[yltfan]

So tell me again why I would want a Supercardioid versus a Cardiod polar pattern.  What good will the lobe be if I mostly record on stage?

What good does the lobe ever do?

Haven't used either of these mic lines personally, but can't resist playing the devils advocate. Here's a few potential good things about the rear lobe-

It makes X/Y a viable choice if you want to run an X/Y config (IMHO. I dislike X/Y with cards except for close mic'ing, yet using supercards can be work pretty well, somewhat like directional blumlein).

For similar reasons, it helps some other non-X/Y configs work correctly (thinking about configs not used around here much, specifically 3 channel OCT) by picking up a small amount of reverse polarity content at a reduced level from the opposite direction.

The traditional Senn supercard response is also interesting in that they chose a pattern where the off-axis sensitivity at +/- 90 degrees is the same as the sensitivity at 180 degress (both are 6dB down from on-axis I believe).  I assume the newer 8050 is the same.  John please correct me if I'm off on this.

So there are some specific reasons to desire the rear lobe, but as you are well aware, the primary reasons for choosing supercards over cardioids is not the rear lobe in itself, but their higher ratio of sensitivity to on-axis sound in comparison to all other combined directions; their conical rearward null pattern; and their generally reduced low frequency sensitivity at the distances we record, including on-stage.

All that said, cardioids are probably a better choice generally for most on-stage 2-channel configs.

Thanks for the (always) informative response!