Topic: Running 4 Mics At A Show

[taper420]

The samson mixer isn't that bad... I've compared the preamps to others in the midrange such as MOTU and Presonus.... the Samson holds it's own. I used to use it exclusively when I was running stereo... and I still use it when I want a smaller setup. I think my pulls with it sound great. I've been told the same.

...a more detailed analysis of the preamp http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,63624.0.html

[wbrisette]

The samson mixer isn't that bad... I've compared the preamps to others in the midrange such as MOTU and Presonus.... the Samson holds it's own.

I read through the thread, and then yesterday while discussing this with a buddy of mine, I discovered that I'm probably just a musical snob, and I'm OK with that. ;-)

I know we can't all start out with high dollar pro-quality gear, I didn't. But, what I do know is that when I go back in my DAT collection and pull out some of my "great sounding tapes" from say 7 or 8 years ago, and put them up against some of my "great sounding recordings" today, it's like night and day. What was once great sounding now is flawed. They sound OK for what they are, but they are flawed none the less.

So, my opinion is, well it's just that my opinion, but after using better equipment for a while, go back and see if the Samson "holds its own," or if it sounds like every other >$200 mixer, that is it's OK, but it ain't great. For the price it's not bad (I'm not sure it's a currently produced product either), but I certainly wouldn't hype it. But... that's just my snobbish opinion.

[Roving Sign]

I don't think it's snobbery - just somewhat impractical...unless your goal is to get the best sound from a $100 set of mics...they might do better to spread out their investment...

For the cost of the Wendt mixer - they could get a set of AKG 480s and an Oade modded UA5...and a cheapie mixer...and maybe even another stock UA5 - and perhaps achieve a better overall sound.

[gratefulphish]

Obviously, as we are financially able to upgrade our rigs, and assuming we have some clue as to what we are doing, our recordings are going to sound that much better.  I am sure we could all recommend one or more "dream" rigs to every newbie here, but in practical terms, each person has to live within their own budget at that time.  I wish I had my new rig years ago, but I didn't, and neither did anyone else taping most of the shows I was at, since I was usually the only taper.  So the best recording is my recording.  If I could do it again now with my current setup, of course it would sound much better, but then again, I just upped the cost of my rig by a factor of five, something I could not have afforded then.

Everyone has to start out somewhere, and the most important part is starting out in the first place.  We should help people between a choice of mic A or B (with of course 1,001 divergant opinions) same with this pre vs. that, and what deck should I buy in this price range.  There will always be (or almost always) a "better" something, for more money, out there.  But, everyone has a budget, and we should try to offer them answers that will be within the realm of possibilities.  It may be, "save your money, and don't buy that, and put it into better mics," but should not always be buy only the best piece of equipment on the market, because most people, including me, can't realistically do that.

[cyfan]

Yeah. Didn't mention that. My experiment turned out fine but I'll still do post-mixes anyway, not so much to avoid phase issues but to have more control over the mix.

If you want control in the field with mixes you need an ENG mixer (they aren't cheap) since they all work on batteries.

Wayne

Actually, I have an 8-track digital recorder that I use for soundboard multi-tracks, and two channels can be used for mics (phantom XLRs) that have an adjustable offset. I just can't use it everywhere because it's bulky and requires A/C.

[wbrisette]

Actually, I have an 8-track digital recorder that I use for soundboard multi-tracks, and two channels can be used for mics (phantom XLRs) that have an adjustable offset. I just can't use it everywhere because it's bulky and requires A/C.

Which is what I said. If you don't have access to A/C and don't want to cart things around, you need an ENG mixer or some other mixer that runs on DC.

Wayne

[cyfan]

Actually, I have an 8-track digital recorder that I use for soundboard multi-tracks, and two channels can be used for mics (phantom XLRs) that have an adjustable offset. I just can't use it everywhere because it's bulky and requires A/C.

Which is what I said. If you don't have access to A/C and don't want to cart things around, you need an ENG mixer or some other mixer that runs on DC.

Wayne

I'd rather do a post mix of the sources, since I have no trouble synching them.
It's a bitch trying to get a good mix in the venue, even with good headphones. The times I've done it, I wound up wishing I could go back and remix them anyway. I'm usually not too concerned about getting the A/C power feed with the multi-tracker. The way I see it, any FOH guy that's willing to allow you to run the direct-outs (or inserts) off the board and fill you in on which channels are being used is probably gonna let you plug it in someplace. God bless the sound guys I work at my regular haunts.

[wbrisette]

I'd rather do a post mix of the sources, since I have no trouble synching them.
It's a bitch trying to get a good mix in the venue, even with good headphones. The times I've done it, I wound up wishing I could go back and remix them anyway.

Which is why you really don't want to use headphones. Spend the money and buy yourself a set of the Etymotic 4S earphones. I use a set and while I do mix a lot of stuff in post, I also try to get a good mix in the field so I can feed that to people should they want it (and I'm usually mixing 6 or 8 channels).

Wayne

[Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)]

When our 4Mic portable mic pre/ADC comes out in a few weeks, you'll be able to record four mics to a single two-channel digital audio recorder.  It losslessly interleaves four channels of 24/44.1 (or 24/48 or 24/96) into two channels of 24/88.1 (or 24/96 or 24/192).  You'll deinterleave them back into four tracks with a small program on your PC.

The recorder must have an optical or coaxial S/PDIF input and be able to record at sample rates of 88.2 KS/s or higher.  The JB3 and iRiver H120/H140 won't do the job because they can't record at 24/96, but the M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96 can (along with others).

Using 4Mic mic pre/ADC and a TetraMic Ambisonic microphone, you'll be able to do 5.1 surround sound recording (as well as XY, Blumlein, Quad, Hexagon, 5.1 7.1 and others) portably for the first time.


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

[wbrisette]

Using 4Mic mic pre/ADC and a TetraMic Ambisonic microphone, you'll be able to do 5.1 surround sound recording (as well as XY, Blumlein, Quad, Hexagon, 5.1 7.1 and others) portably for the first time.

I've been able to do this for two years now. So "First time" is relative.

Wayne

[Brian Skalinder]

Using 4Mic mic pre/ADC and a TetraMic Ambisonic microphone, you'll be able to do 5.1 surround sound recording (as well as XY, Blumlein, Quad, Hexagon, 5.1 7.1 and others) portably for the first time.

I've been able to do this for two years now. So "First time" is relative.

I've not done any surround sound recording, but...can't it be done with 4 mics and a 4-ch pre/ADC/recorder?  And if so, how long has the R-4 been out?  (An old AES release suggests retail availability Feb 2005, but don't know if Edirol hit that target.)

[Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)]

I've been able to do this for two years now. So "First time" is relative.

Well, you haven't been able to do all of those mic techniques using only one mic on one stand with a recorder & mic pre that you can hold in one hand.  You can decode an Ambisonic recording (four channels of A-format or B-format) to an incredible number of microphone and playback configurations.


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com