Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: Joe w. on December 29, 2004, 02:13:52 PM
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found this thread:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=25963.0
with this link:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/newsletter/147/cable_survey2.html
any validity to this as a viable option?
[/cheap bastard]
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For that price buy them and see.
I can't see dropping almost a grand on speaker cables (since the rest of my system is not on par) but $50 for an experiment that might yeild better sound is totally worth it.
What do you run now?
I use the original monster cable speaker wire, but I've never compared it to anything else in a close listening test.
Like they said in the review. They had to listen and concentrate to a point that took the enjoyment out of listening in order to discern the cable traits they are discussing.
JAson
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if the bank would clear my damn loan check I'd let you know... ::)
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found this thread:
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=25963.0
with this link:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/newsletter/147/cable_survey2.html
any validity to this as a viable option?
[/cheap bastard]
PM Thom Joad and ask him what he thinks. He did this a few months ago and I'd bet that he is still using them. They were an appropriate "Halloween orange and black".
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i'd dig the orange and black but they seem to be just your standard orange.
What do you run now?
nada. gonna try them out. just don't want to be the victim of a geeky audiophile joke :P
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For low budget wire that gets good reviews, there is also
1) the canare speaker cable (no work required)
2) any number of CAT5 DIY recipes (lots of work required)
3) Jon Risch u-byte coax recipe (little work required)
All these are relatively cheap and get reviewed higher than commercial cables of similar cost.
I don't think that audiophile review was a joke, there was a bunch of posts on audio asylum that backed up the review, if I recall correctly. look on AA and you'll also find tons of info on the three options listed above in addition to the HD wire.
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Got a deal on an 80' roll of 14 AWG, black and orange, extension cable from home depot. Hacked off the ends, stripped, two conductors to ground, one to positive, works like a charm. I use bare ends with no bannas or spades, etc. I think the less layers of metal the signal has to pass through, the better. Sounds better than cheap wire, star-quad, and monster cable. I've never tried any of the high end stuff, but a buddy has some MIT's that I may borrow for a head to head.
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Got a deal on an 80' roll of 14 AWG, black and orange, extension cable from home depot. Hacked off the ends, stripped, two conductors to ground, one to positive, works like a charm. I use bare ends with no bannas or spades, etc. I think the less layers of metal the signal has to pass through, the better. Sounds better than cheap wire, star-quad, and monster cable. I've never tried any of the high end stuff, but a buddy has some MIT's that I may borrow for a head to head.
thanks for the input. I picked up a set today. i did nothing with the ground though.
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keep us informed Joe :)
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So would you guys recommend one of these inexpensive solutions over the other? I was leaning towards one of the easier CAT5 options but the Home Depot cables would be quicker for sure.
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i'm all hooked up and rolling. everything sounds very nice through the monitors. listening to nick's mmj tape from jan. Nothing to really compare it to at the moment, cable wise at least. once i pick up my sub, i'll report back. I'll maybe grab boswell's cables once he upgrades and do a comp.
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once i pick up my sub
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=31614.0
;)
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I wish. I'm eyeballing an inexpensive velodyne. gone to ebay yet?
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gone to ebay yet?
No. I'm trying to not go that route if at all possible.
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I wish. I'm eyeballing an inexpensive velodyne. gone to ebay yet?
That's what I'm running. I figure it'd be easier to add another one down the road that matches it for stereo subs :)
Why not try the canare speaker cable? Everyone loves their mic cables so much, I'd imagine the speaker cable would beat an extension cord. Plus, you don't have the orange jacket to worry about.
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I have the canares and love them...just use bare wire, no banana plugs on the ends as of yet. How long a run would you need for a comparison Joe? I have some extra I believe....you would just have to strip the wire on the ends and hook it up, if you want to run a compare...
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I have the canares and love them...just use bare wire, no banana plugs on the ends as of yet. How long a run would you need for a comparison Joe? I have some extra I believe....you would just have to strip the wire on the ends and hook it up, if you want to run a compare...
about 15' would be fine. thanks!
I'm thinking of going to Home Depot & getting some of that extension cord to try out.
It's just a regular extension cord, & all you do is cut off the plugs right ?
yep.
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I have the canares and love them...just use bare wire, no banana plugs on the ends as of yet. How long a run would you need for a comparison Joe? I have some extra I believe....you would just have to strip the wire on the ends and hook it up, if you want to run a compare...
about 15' would be fine. thanks!
PM Sent
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I put this stuff on today finally. it is replacing some Synergistic Research Alpha cable...
I don't know if I'm hearing things or not but there seems to be a rather dramatic improvement already. The sound is richer and fuller in the low end and has a new openness and clarity in the top. The soundstage seems to be have grown a bit deeper and wider too...
I like what I'm hearing...
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don't forget that they sell 14/2 for .158/ft no info on strand count.
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Haven't done to much research on strand count, etc, but Lowes ( http://www.lowes.com ) has some outdoor extension cables in similar gauges and configurations/ prices in blue and purple... prime cords or something like it... interesting and probably what I will try when I finally get my new receiver.
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I put this stuff on today finally. it is replacing some Synergistic Research Alpha cable...
I don't know if I'm hearing things or not but there seems to be a rather dramatic improvement already. The sound is richer and fuller in the low end and has a new openness and clarity in the top. The soundstage seems to be have grown a bit deeper and wider too...
I like what I'm hearing...
Tim any updates? Still sounding good to your ears?
Thanks,
Nick
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yes, very much so.... I added a new amp and cd player within the last 2 weeks though. I'm going to swap them out for some bettercables.com wires this weekend... didn't have time last weekend.
EDIT: I'll post more in depth thoughts next week sometime... suffice it to say that I really enjoyed the sound of the HD cable with my borrowd amp, (Thanks Darrin!). The HD cable was a noticeable improvement to my ears with that setup. I have no complaints with how it sounds with my new ASL amp but I just haven't had time to switch out the cables...
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I've been using about 20' of my original 50' of the Home Depot "cable". Sounds great, or rather, I can really tell with all these upgrades, how crappy my speakers are...
The orange doesn't bother me as most of the cable is hidden... Anyways, I think its funny to point out that a $20 extension cord sounds as good as expensive cable - so I like to keep them orange to remind me...
Anyone want some of this stuff??? I'll trade for a handful of SHN/FLAC discs of any recent shows you may have taped...
Email me or PM me here... twatts@kci.com
Terry
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yes, very much so.... I added a new amp and cd player within the last 2 weeks though. I'm going to swap them out for some bettercables.com wires this weekend... didn't have time last weekend.
EDIT: I'll post more in depth thoughts next week sometime... suffice it to say that I really enjoyed the sound of the HD cable with my borrowd amp, (Thanks Darrin!). The HD cable was a noticeable improvement to my ears with that setup. I have no complaints with how it sounds with my new ASL amp but I just haven't had time to switch out the cables...
I'm curious to see your thoughts on the bettercables wires. Everyone I've turned on to these cables has remarked about their incredible clarity across all frequencies.
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yes, very much so.... I added a new amp and cd player within the last 2 weeks though. I'm going to swap them out for some bettercables.com wires this weekend... didn't have time last weekend.
EDIT: I'll post more in depth thoughts next week sometime... suffice it to say that I really enjoyed the sound of the HD cable with my borrowd amp, (Thanks Darrin!). The HD cable was a noticeable improvement to my ears with that setup. I have no complaints with how it sounds with my new ASL amp but I just haven't had time to switch out the cables...
I'm curious to see your thoughts on the bettercables wires. Everyone I've turned on to these cables has remarked about their incredible clarity across all frequencies.
I can't wait to use them. Unfortunatley the amp I was borrowing wouldn't take the spade connectors so I had to wait until I got my new amp. Thanks so much for the loaner Jonny :)
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well, the ext. cord certainly holds the low end very well. felt like more presence to me....maybe not as smooth overall as the canare (thanks nick) A little more air to the higer end of the canare. overall, i am pleased with the ext. cord through my monitors. I think it needs to be compared with the canare on a sub.
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well, the ext. cord certainly holds the low end very well. felt like more presence to me....maybe not as smooth overall as the canare (thanks nick) A little more air to the higer end of the canare. overall, i am pleased with the ext. cord through my monitors. I think it needs to be compared with the canare on a sub.
+T Joe, thanks....
fwiw - the cable I'm borrowing from Jonny won't reach my amp, so no comparisons this weekend. Jason is sending me some high dollar AudioQuest to try out though.
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well, the ext. cord certainly holds the low end very well. felt like more presence to me....maybe not as smooth overall as the canare (thanks nick) A little more air to the higer end of the canare. overall, i am pleased with the ext. cord through my monitors. I think it needs to be compared with the canare on a sub.
my pleasure...interesting how the ext cord stacks up...
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apparently in blind tests that The Absolute Sound did it matched up with some pretty high dollar cable...
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apparently in blind tests that The Absolute Sound did it matched up with some pretty high dollar cable...
audiophile grade companies must love that :P
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If you don't like the look of the orange cables... you could always grab some techflex to wrap em with.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=161
Use that, with some heatshrink and terminators on the ends and nobody will ever see that you're using extension cords for speaker cables :)
I'm trying to decide right now between these HD cables or Canare. Both are cheap, which is nice.
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I know in my local hardware shop they sell bulk cable. one of which i dont know what the original intent is but i would think it would be great for speaker cable. instead of 3 cables inside like an extension cable + - gnd, it has 4. which i think would be great for bi-amping/bi wireing.
the stuff is about 1 1/4" thick! Im sure home depo has this stuff as well and cheaper than 2 bucks a foot.
just a thought
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Wanted to give you guys a big ole thanks for the info on the Home Depot cables. I grabbed a 25ft / 12 gauge set from the Depot today and tipped them with gold banana plugs. The clarity is greater than the moster cable I'd been using. Be good. ;D
Kenyon
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Cable white papers from the world of rocket scientists, designing lossless cable designs for nasa;
http://www.analysis-plus.com/Pages/report981.htm
the design page;
http://www.analysis-plus.com/Pages/thedesign.htm
Right, but gross oversimplification of the issue.
Speaker manufacturers design and test output, which would compensate for all of the microcosmic variables.
By digging backward to things like the impedance vs. frequency we undo the design engineering and try to quantify
the unquantifiables.
I contend that a pair of drapes, or speaker spikes or dampening feet, or placement to wall/ceiling will always have a far more dramatic
affect than speaker cable, unless is it grossly inferior to 14 gauge zip cord.
Also, remember to tin the tips to prevent a stand of wire from shorting the terminals.
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thanks for the cable tip Moke!
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Some speakers and amps are much more affected by the impedance and resistance of the speaker cable.
I also suspect that you have "golden ears" honed from many years of acute listening.
I could not hear analog cable changes with my last system, the Dynaco speaks and Dynaco S.S. amp.
I tested with 28 gauge twisted pair vs. Monster cables vs. 12 Gauge zip cord. Never dug into the esoteric stuff.
Also tried using heliax, a 50 Ω high power/high-frquency solid-line radio tower cable once, and couldn't hear it.
But your ears aren't mine and vice-versa (Moke breathes sigh of relief at not having 60 year-old creased earlobes)
Part of the fun of playback systems is the experimenting, the owning, and the knowledge that you toiled and fussed
to "get it just the way you like it."
One of these rainy Saturday afternoons, I'll have to go to an esoteric audio sales house and A/B top-end cables, just for hoots.
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Anyone have any thoughts about using this stuff as inter-connects?
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I doubt it would be a great IC as the demands on an IC are quite different--there just isn't as much current there. I would think it would be too capacative to drive well. Dunno, tho, try it and let us know what you think ;D
I made some ICs from romex years ago... And they sucked. :-\
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I doubt it would be a great IC as the demands on an IC are quite different--there just isn't as much current there. I would think it would be too capacative to drive well.....
in other words success depends among other things, on the beefyness and stablity of the stage driving the cable.
I can think of not a single reason for pushing IC series resistance below a few ohm: i.e. the conductors need not be thick.
When it comes to capacitance per yard I think the situation is opposite of what was just suggested: the further apart the conductors are the lower the capacitance. If you do want to go to extremes get some 300 ohms antenna cable. But don't use it for long runs, it has no RF shelding.
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Cable white papers from the world of rocket scientists, designing lossless cable designs for nasa;
http://www.analysis-plus.com/Pages/report981.htm
the design page;
http://www.analysis-plus.com/Pages/thedesign.htm
Right, but gross oversimplification of the issue.
Speaker manufacturers design and test output, which would compensate for all of the microcosmic variables.
By digging backward to things like the impedance vs. frequency we undo the design engineering and try to quantify
the unquantifiables.
I contend that a pair of drapes, or speaker spikes or dampening feet, or placement to wall/ceiling will always have a far more dramatic affect than speaker cable, unless is it grossly inferior to 14 gauge zip cord.
Also, remember to tin the tips to prevent a stand of wire from shorting the terminals.
I totally agree on the latter. Try playing back a stable 13 kHz tone and test the effect of moving your head around.
Or wearing different sweathers when listening. etc etc.
But I must ask what defines a "microcosmic" variable ?
And you claim in public that speaker manufacturers have designs covering the unquantifiable and so end up with designs that _compensate_ for all microcosmic variables? ;D ;D
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So I went to home depot today with all intentions of picking up the HD-14 cable.... Then I saw the gobs of rolls of cabling they have tucked in the end cap of the isle and got curious.
Walked out with some Carol 14/2 outdoor power cable. I've seen the brand in catalogs like Parts Express so I figured I'd just give it a shot. 30 cents a foot and I don't have to cut the plugs off. It looks nice but I haven't had time to plug them in yet (just going bare wire) and I'm about to hit the hay and don't wanna bother.
Carol 14/2 SJ-002 ft-2 p-7k-123033 msha 300 volt something or other. Black cabling and no ground cable.
(http://www.partsexpress.com/images/100-553m.jpg)
After reading on audio asylum I'm wondering if I should've bought the HD, but we'll see. I'm only out $6 on the deal.
They sell it at Parts Express (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=100-561) as well.
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I picked up the HD 12G (banana colored) to go with the new 3000. I figured it was the same as the 14G with more strands. It looks as though it's made in the same factory. It sounds real nice to me.
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I really like my HD Cable. Definately worth the small amount of $$$
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I doubt it would be a great IC as the demands on an IC are quite different--there just isn't as much current there. I would think it would be too capacative to drive well. Dunno, tho, try it and let us know what you think ;D
I made some ICs from romex years ago... And they sucked. :-\
In terms of IC's, what makes a good canidate for IC cabling? I have a good idea on terminations as per what is deemed High Quality but not sure what is considered "good" or "bad" when looking at interconnects in terms of construction/material/etc.
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Has anyone considered running cotton sleeves over these wires to hide the colors?
Or possibly even splitting them open and running the wire into the sleeve?
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http://www.techflex.com
The stuff is sold a lot of places.
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http://www.techflex.com
The stuff is sold a lot of places.
nice link thanks +T
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I believe this is the stuff MIT uses on their cables. If so, I like it alot!
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Yes, the newer MIT cables have this. Many cable houses are using this stuff and even some of the custom cables made by people on this board. I think that a lot of the cable houses have a custom made weave to match their product style.
I should have mentioned before that there are quite a few DIY audio parts houses that sell this stuff and you can get it relatively cheap. http://venhaus1.com/VH_Audio_Test.html is one place I like but there are plenty of others.
When you price an order, keep in mind that you can reuse the stuff. If you decide to use another type of wire, you can clip off the ends of the HD cable and pull that wire out of the techflex jacket. The jacket will just be a bit shorter for the new cables.
Order some heat shrink too. You'll want to use some heat shrink to secure the ends and prevent fraying.
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Good info! +T
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Cable white papers from the world of rocket scientists, designing lossless cable designs for nasa;
http://www.analysis-plus.com/Pages/report981.htm
the design page;
http://www.analysis-plus.com/Pages/thedesign.htm
Right, but gross oversimplification of the issue.
Speaker manufacturers design and test output, which would compensate for all of the microcosmic variables.
By digging backward to things like the impedance vs. frequency we undo the design engineering and try to quantify
the unquantifiables.
I contend that a pair of drapes, or speaker spikes or dampening feet, or placement to wall/ceiling will always have a far more dramatic affect than speaker cable, unless is it grossly inferior to 14 gauge zip cord.
Also, remember to tin the tips to prevent a stand of wire from shorting the terminals.
I totally agree on the latter. Try playing back a stable 13 kHz tone and test the effect of moving your head around.
Or wearing different sweathers when listening. etc etc.
But I must ask what defines a "microcosmic" variable ?
And you claim in public that speaker manufacturers have designs covering the unquantifiable and so end up with designs that _compensate_ for all microcosmic variables? ;D ;D
I'm went to a very small tech institution, very Socratic. I like a good discussion and also the use of contrarian commentary to open the discussion even more. I hope that no one here sees it as an argument. It's not meant to be.
By microcosmic variables I mean such things as exotic speaker terminal posts, exotic speaker wire, and wood/ marble bases for solid state amps and other things that are very hard to quantify with actual measurement.
My point, in short, is an amp is designed and tested with speaker cable. It usually is not pure silver nor gold, but often closer to "consumer grade." Damping factor and other relevant design characteristics should be engineered for a nominal, typical speaker cable in the circuit.
To an amplifier engineer, the oxygen level in the copper wire is a microcosm. The stability of the support platform under the amp is a microcosm, and so on.
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Interesting bit on cables:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/AudioFAQ/part8/
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Interesting bit on cables:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/AudioFAQ/part8/
Cool read.. this was especially handy "George Washington Bridge" ;D
15.9 Is there a standard for wiring balanced XLR-3 cables?
Yes. Connect pin 1 to ground/green, pin 2 to white, and
pin 3 to black. Herb Hamilton suggests that you remember
"George Washington Bridge" and then use the first letter
of each word (GWB) to help you remember Green=1, White=2,
and Black=3. This same wiring convention works for
balanced line level signals and balanced microphone cables.
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AAAAAAACCCCKKKK!!!! :-X
I just built a pair of bi-wire cables out of this stuff, and it sounds like I'm listening thru extension cord material.
I can't get my analysis plus bi-oval nines back in place quickly enough. These sound like crap less than stellar. Flat, dead, and zero magic :-X
edit to say,.... sorry for the harshnes, but the difference is absolutley astonishing and in my face. The bi-ovals are back in place, and the magic is back.
I have since upgraded and there's no comparison.... decent sound but the Leegeddy silver's are MUCH better