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Gear / Technical Help => Cables => Topic started by: rsimms3 on April 06, 2005, 02:53:26 PM
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I have been reading various posts about the AD20 and have a question about making a cable/mod for one I just purchased. I will give some background and hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.
I will be going:
Binaural Mics > Batt. Box > AD20 > JB3
I know that Sound Pro. has a dual XLR to Female Mini Cable, but my hope was to remove the XLR connectors and replace them with a Female mini in the box itself. The internal cable is a simple 10 pin setup with 2 to the Power and 8 to the XLRs. I was planning on making something with quick connectors on the power part so that the cables/connector could simply be swapped if I wanted to go back with the XLR connectors.
Basically I am looking for a diagram or explanation of the terminals and how to go from XLR connections to the Female mini.
Thanks.
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easiest option. pm leegeddy and have him make a HQ silver cable for you
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easiest option. pm leegeddy and have him make a HQ silver cable for you
I second that ..He does custom stuff
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Basically I am looking for a diagram or explanation of the terminals and how to go from XLR connections to the Female mini.
Thanks.
Take the xlr hot (pin 2) and put to the tip of the mini
take the xlr cold (pin3) and put to the ring of the mini
assuming it is an unbalanced sig.
if balanced.... either leave the xlr pin 1 open or short to pin 3.
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Basically I am looking for a diagram or explanation of the terminals and how to go from XLR connections to the Female mini.
Thanks.
Take the xlr hot (pin 2) and put to the tip of the mini
take the xlr cold (pin3) and put to the ring of the mini
assuming it is an unbalanced sig.
if balanced.... either leave the xlr pin 1 open or short to pin 3.
My understanding of the AD20 is that the inputs are balanced because they have four wires on the inside, three wires for the pins and the fourth is on the case.
Also, will the above explanation work for 2 XLRs to 1 Female mini? I have seen diagrams that go 1 to 1, but not 2 to 1. I am using binaural mics and want to keep the sound stereo.
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Basically I am looking for a diagram or explanation of the terminals and how to go from XLR connections to the Female mini.
Thanks.
Take the xlr hot (pin 2) and put to the tip of the mini
take the xlr cold (pin3) and put to the ring of the mini
assuming it is an unbalanced sig.
if balanced.... either leave the xlr pin 1 open or short to pin 3.
My understanding of the AD20 is that the inputs are balanced because they have four wires on the inside, three wires for the pins and the fourth is on the case.
Also, will the above explanation work for 2 XLRs to 1 Female mini? I have seen diagrams that go 1 to 1, but not 2 to 1. I am using binaural mics and want to keep the sound stereo.
I admit I don't know the ad20 plug...what does it look like? this is a stereo mini plug right?
My understanding of the AD20 is that the inputs are balanced because they have four wires on the inside, three wires for the pins and the fourth is on the case.
4 wires for 2 mics doesn't sound balanced to me...if we are talking one plug for 2 mics and it is a mini plug...stereo mini plug you have l, r, common ground. and somewhere you are getting the fouth case ground????
sounds like you should ping leegeddy ;) as I don't really know that interface.
jah
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Damn me and my poor explanation.
Each XLR connector has 4 wires coming from it which matches the partial description above, just not specific enough. I checked the Denecke site and they are Balanced.
I want to take the wires from each XLR connector and run them to a female mini which I can drill a hole in the AD20 and mount so instead of having to use the bulky 2 XLR to Female Mini cable. I am trying to get this thing a bit more stealthy without the need for an additional cable.
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This is what the adaptor cable looks like over at SoundProfessionals:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/SP-XLRM-MINI-2.jpg
Instead of using that cable, I want to do a direct wire internally, drill a hole, and mount the jack inside the box.
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Damn me and my poor explanation.
Each XLR connector has 4 wires coming from it which matches the partial description above, just not specific enough. I checked the Denecke site and they are Balanced.
I want to take the wires from each XLR connector and run them to a female mini which I can drill a hole in the AD20 and mount so instead of having to use the bulky 2 XLR to Female Mini cable. I am trying to get this thing a bit more stealthy without the need for an additional cable.
okmlast post for the PM..
so you want to go 4 pin xlr to 3 pin mini???? ducks.... ;D...oh..I use mini xlr 3 pinner and ...do they make a mini 4 pin xlr.
when you were saying mini...I was thinking 1/8 in plug but you mean mini xlr...big light bulb come on ;-)
so speaking in terms of xlrs...4 pin xlrs...big to mini...wouldn't it be a 1:1 swap?
is there room to mount the two mini xlrs?
maybe just the size swap out is enough...
thanks for bearing w/ me ;-)
gone for the night.
peace
edit...saw you cble pic post...the ad20 can take balanced in but are the mics balanced?
so you have a mini 1/8 plug on you mics right? and that plugs into the xlr adapter cable>ad20.
not seeing 1/8 goes to balanced....does this cable provide a balanced input to the ad20?
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ok I lied :) not my last......on the ride home and stopped in the green door for a six of Nukie Brown ($6.85 to go!) and thought that since you want to get rid of those xlr and go hard wire,
you need to remove the xlr inputs on the ad20 and remove the xlr on the cable.....take the wires from the cable and connect them to the wires that connected to your ad20's xlr....then you would have a dawgtail specific for your types of mics :)
so look at the cable and dismantal each xlr...keeping in mind the L and R....draw out the wire and which pin it goes to. they should both be the same but one L and R.
map out the ad20's L and R xlr wire connection.
then draw out pin to pin connection...that will give you wire to wire connection :D
now for the fun part ...DO IT!
ya know...I swear you are going in unbalanced so you will have an extra wire on each channel of the ad20's balanced inputs...so
leave pin 1 on the ad20 either clipped off so it won't touch anything or ground it out....not knowing what is inside I'd ask Denecke at info@zefiro.com...at least that's what the sticker on it says.... if there is a problem with grounding Pin 1..tell them what you are doing.
if all is ok then go wire to wire that you mapped out and either plug off on each side and gromment w/ both channels coming thru..or, gromment both sides (which is prolly the better idea..makes for a more direct connection)
This will get rid of xlr and have an adapter cable (1/8in) odd of it.....plus you can set the dawgtail to desired length. ;D
does this make sence ;D
jah
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seriously, i wouldnt lead you wrong... leegeddy
u wont be let down
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seriously, i wouldnt lead you wrong... leegeddy
u wont be let down
does he leave the extra pin, from the bal to unbal, on the ad20 capped off?...where are you marc ;-)
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So rsimms3, did you find someone to mod your ad20?...I got a reply from denecke and they said go ahead and short pin 3 to 1...I bet that is the way your cable is inside.
jah
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I did the mod this weekend. I put the case ground or balanced ground, not a pin, to both of the grounds coming from the unbalanced mics. I then put the left/right from the mics to pin 2 on the XLR left/right connectors. This appears to be working right with no noticable hum or noise. If I can get a hold of a digital camera I will put up pictures. For the actual cable I stripped some from an IDE hard drive cable to replace the one that was there already which was nothing but an IDE cable. I pulled the XLR connectors and made a new plate to cover the two XLR holes and drilled a single hole for the female 3.5mm female jack. My mics with the battery box cut the volume level quite a bit at indoor shows so the 17db gain will be good with these mics and should keep the sound from clipping at all with the need to boost the volume by maybe 3-4 later. I have a show to go to on the 23rd and should be able to give everything a real world test.
I will look at shorting the 3 pin to the 1 pin tonight when I get home and see if there is any difference with that.
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cool! Like to see the photos
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seriously, i wouldnt lead you wrong... leegeddy
u wont be let down
does he leave the extra pin, from the bal to unbal, on the ad20 capped off?...where are you marc ;-)
i was out of town on b'ness up in chicago all last week.
2 xlr > female mini is pretty straight forward.
XLR: MINI:
Pin 2 from Right XLR Ring
Pin 2 from Left XLR Tip
Pins 3 from both L & R Sleeve (gnd.)
Pins 1 from both L & R Sleeve (gnd.)
you don't have to worry about chassis ground on the xlr. it will automatically ground since you're grounding Pins 1 from L&R to the Mini Sleeve.
the tricky part of the female mini is determining which post is sleeve and which post is ring. the solder post in the center is tip, and the solder post to the side is ring.
if you get Tip and Ring backwards, your channel will be swapped since the industry standard is: Ring = Right = Red (the "3 R's")
bon chance!!
marc
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....it got a little confusing as I was not understanding what he was asking. Then he linked a photo and, w/ a couple of re-reads I understood what he wanted. He wanted to replace the 2 xlrs w/ a stereo mini to plug his mics into and bypass the adapter cable altogether....rsimms already did the mod himself and hopefully will be sending some photos...still good info as he can verify that he has the Land R correct.
peace
jah
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With the Left and Right I was able to verify them by using the diagram on the back of the AD20 and a single XLR connector with exposed wires to hook up to the female mini.
As for the grounds, will leaving the chassis ground to the mini instead of pins 1 and 3 cause any problems? Is there an advantage to going back and correcting this from the chassis to the 1 and 3 pins for the grounds? It isn't an issue I will leave it as is, but if it is going to cause any problems, I will fix it.
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With the Left and Right I was able to verify them by using the diagram on the back of the AD20 and a single XLR connector with exposed wires to hook up to the female mini.
As for the grounds, will leaving the chassis ground to the mini instead of pins 1 and 3 cause any problems? Is there an advantage to going back and correcting this from the chassis to the 1 and 3 pins for the grounds? It isn't an issue I will leave it as is, but if it is going to cause any problems, I will fix it.
let see...you did I put the case ground or balanced ground, not a pin, to both of the grounds coming from the unbalanced mics. I then put the left/right from the mics to pin 2 on the XLR left/right connectors.
since you tied the ground of your unbalance signal to the balanced ground (what was pin 1) AND tied the hots together (was pin 2).....was the wire that was connected to what was pin 3 tied to the same point as the wire that was connected to what was pin 1? IF so then they are tied together and this is ok.
you should be able to take a DMM and get continuity from the wires that were on pin 1 and pin 3. which is also your mic ground (-)
make any sence :)
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With the Left and Right I was able to verify them by using the diagram on the back of the AD20 and a single XLR connector with exposed wires to hook up to the female mini.
As for the grounds, will leaving the chassis ground to the mini instead of pins 1 and 3 cause any problems? Is there an advantage to going back and correcting this from the chassis to the 1 and 3 pins for the grounds? It isn't an issue I will leave it as is, but if it is going to cause any problems, I will fix it.
let see...you did I put the case ground or balanced ground, not a pin, to both of the grounds coming from the unbalanced mics. I then put the left/right from the mics to pin 2 on the XLR left/right connectors.
since you tied the ground of your unbalance signal to the balanced ground (what was pin 1) AND tied the hots together (was pin 2).....was the wire that was connected to what was pin 3 tied to the same point as the wire that was connected to what was pin 1? IF so then they are tied together and this is ok.
you should be able to take a DMM and get continuity from the wires that were on pin 1 and pin 3. which is also your mic ground (-)
make any sence :)
No. The difference between Balanced and Unbalanced XLRs are the extra chassis ground. The unbalanced mic ground was put to the chassis ground of the XLR connections. I have nothing going from the unbalanaced mics to either pin 1 or pin 3. That is the question. Is the chassis ground good enough to be the ground going from the unbalanced mics? Or should I do as directed above and run the unbalanced mic ground to pins 1 and 3 bridged together? Inside the AD20 all connectors are seperated. One wire goes to each of the four connection points on the XLRs - Pins 1-3 and the Chassis Ground.
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No. The difference between Balanced and Unbalanced XLRs are the extra chassis ground. The unbalanced mic ground was put to the chassis ground of the XLR connections. I have nothing going from the unbalanaced mics to either pin 1 or pin 3. That is the question. Is the chassis ground good enough to be the ground going from the unbalanced mics? Or should I do as directed above and run the unbalanced mic ground to pins 1 and 3 bridged together? Inside the AD20 all connectors are seperated. One wire goes to each of the four connection points on the XLRs - Pins 1-3 and the Chassis Ground.
don't worry so much about the chassis ground.
just follow the pin assignments > mini i posted above and you'll be fine.
marc
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No. The difference between Balanced and Unbalanced XLRs are the extra chassis ground.
sorry .... well not really, but as Leegeddy and I have said, if you tie pin 1 and 3 to the ground of you mics you will be ok.
I have nothing going from the unbalanaced mics to either pin 1 or pin 3. That is the question. Is the chassis ground good enough to be the ground going from the unbalanced mics?
What did you do w/ the wires in the ad20 that went to pin 1 and 3? You are picking up the ground through the chassis.
I would do it as stated before...take the mic ground to these two.
jah
the not really part is not associated w/ the sorry you didn't understand my post...it was associated w/ your comment about "The difference between Balanced and Unbalanced XLRs are the extra chassis ground. "
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I went home last night and rewired everything as suggested. I tied both L/R pins 1 and 3 to the mini ground as recommended. Sounds good. I am working on borrowing a camera and can throw up some pictures. Thanks for all the support and guidance on this!
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I went home last night and rewired everything as suggested. I tied both L/R pins 1 and 3 to the mini ground as recommended. Sounds good. I am working on borrowing a camera and can throw up some pictures. Thanks for all the support and guidance on this!
great, no worries...any noticeable sound difference?
enjoy
jah
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None that I can see right now. As I mentioned, it will all get a real world test April 23rd when I see Muse.