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Author Topic: shotgun mics usage  (Read 8783 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: shotgun mics usage
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2021, 12:32:34 PM »
Good to hear more of your hands-on experience of adding shotguns to an existing array.  As I've mentioned before, I suspect the other mics in the array help to hide the off-axis issues of the shotguns, particularly at the levels at which you are using them.  Also, it's somehow comforting that your setups make my arrays seem almost tame in comparison. ;)

I should try your single PAS spot shotgun technique to get that little extra bit of vocal clarity in the mix, always a fundamental challenge.  For others following, that's a single shotgun pointed at whichever PA stack is closer, louder, and clearer, with its output panned to [edit]center in the mix, or to whatever position helps perceptually center the vocal/PA content.  Yes, that means that microphone is intentionally arranged asymmetrically with regards to all other microphones in the array, yet it's output ends up being used symmetrically in the mix.

[edit- In actual use, was the actual angle between the two shotguns as small as it looks in the photo?  It appears pretty small, maybe ~15 degrees or so.  Just trying to parse if the inclusion of only one of the two might have produced a similar result.  Maybe you played with that in the mix?]
« Last Edit: December 13, 2021, 08:10:12 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline EmRR

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Re: shotgun mics usage
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2021, 08:45:13 PM »
I’d guess 20+ degrees. I was surprised to find if panned exactly it then integrated into the MS image perfectly, panning center throws it off. It does not drag the image to one side. The center aimed gun grabbed a bit drier stage instrument sound.  As you said any anomalies are swamped by the main mics, even if much louder in the mix. All center stack capsules are coincident with respect to horizontal sound, the mid gun not to vertical.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 08:47:00 PM by EmRR »
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: shotgun mics usage
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2021, 08:11:26 PM »
Interesting on the panning integration, thanks!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline mcfoster

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Re: shotgun mics usage
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2022, 05:57:36 PM »
If it's an easy venue, I'll run my AKG 568 shotguns alongside hypers just to get a different flavor. Sometimes the shotguns sound better than the hypers.

Examples:

North Mississippi Allstars Live at Terminal West on 2020-01-25
https://archive.org/details/nma2020-01-25.davidpuddy.akg568

Jimmy Herring and The 5 of 7 Live at Variety Playhouse on 2019-11-20
https://archive.org/details/jhiw2019-11-20.DavidPuddy



Billy Strings Live at Cat's Cradle on 2019-11-01
https://archive.org/details/billystrings2019-11-01.akg568

They're not right for all situations, but the results are very usable.


I really like the sound of all of these recordings. Thanks for posting the links. Been reading up on this thread for some advice as I just received a pair of AKG CK8X's from a fellow member here. Thanks Corey! I am excited to run them in a couple venues locally for times when I do not feel like the hassle of being right up front, or know that I am going to encounter a really chatty situation. As much as I like to stay low profile, there are a couple spots around town here that people don't even know I am recording (clamped to a railing) where I won't mind running a large set of mics. I would rather do that than set up in an area I do not want to hold down and or have a stand. Also, If I am not so into the band or want to go catch something else, I don't feel rude packing up and leaving. Hoping for some good results with them, but we will see I guess. Any more tips would be appreciated. Basically PAS, and what 6 inches apart or so? Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 05:59:29 PM by mcfoster »
It varies

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: shotgun mics usage
« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2022, 06:05:57 PM »
If it's an easy venue, I'll run my AKG 568 shotguns alongside hypers just to get a different flavor. Sometimes the shotguns sound better than the hypers.

Examples:

North Mississippi Allstars Live at Terminal West on 2020-01-25
https://archive.org/details/nma2020-01-25.davidpuddy.akg568

Jimmy Herring and The 5 of 7 Live at Variety Playhouse on 2019-11-20
https://archive.org/details/jhiw2019-11-20.DavidPuddy



Billy Strings Live at Cat's Cradle on 2019-11-01
https://archive.org/details/billystrings2019-11-01.akg568

They're not right for all situations, but the results are very usable.


I really like the sound of all of these recordings. Thanks for posting the links. Been reading up on this thread for some advice as I just received a pair of AKG CK8X's from a fellow member here. Thanks Corey! I am excited to run them in a couple venues locally for times when I do not feel like the hassle of being right up front, or know that I am going to encounter a really chatty situation. As much as I like to stay low profile, there are a couple spots around town here that people don't even know I am recording (clamped to a railing) where I won't mind running a large set of mics. I would rather do that than set up in an area I do not want to hold down and or have a stand. Also, If I am not so into the band or want to go catch something else, I don't feel rude packing up and leaving. Hoping for some good results with them, but we will see I guess. Any more tips would be appreciated. Basically PAS, and what 6 inches apart or so? Thanks!

I ran them on a regular K&M stereo bar pointed at the outer edge of the stacks

Offline JiB97

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Re: shotgun mics usage
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2022, 06:38:13 PM »
https://archive.org/details/dco2017-05-28.akg468/dco2017-05-28t07.flac

^^example of short shotguns (AKG 460|ck8) from the lawn of your typical "shed” outdoor amphitheater....the sound was sort of phasey to begin with at times due to the wind and whatnot but the recording is definitely listenable for a PA recording
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 05:45:24 PM by JiB97 »
AKG ck3/ck8 | c460b  + Naiant Actives | PFAs
Audio Technica u853r (omnis/mini-guns)
Tascam DR-70D

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Offline mcfoster

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Re: shotgun mics usage
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2022, 12:01:19 PM »
Sorry for the newbie shotgun question, but I was wondering if and what effect the orientation of the vent? on this AKG CK8X has if anything on the directionality of this particular model of microphone. I am hoping to to them out tonight, so I might as well get it right the first time. Thanks All.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 01:45:11 PM by mcfoster »
It varies

Offline jefflester

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Re: shotgun mics usage
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2022, 08:00:21 PM »
Sorry for the newbie shotgun question, but I was wondering if and what effect the orientation of the vent? on this AKG CK8X has if anything on the directionality of this particular model of microphone. I am hoping to to them out tonight, so I might as well get it right the first time. Thanks All.
A couple of previous threads with discussion:
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=186891.0;all
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=156938.0;all
DPA4061 HEB/AT943 -> CA-UGLY -> R-09
Samson C02/Superlux S502/iSK Little Gem -> DR-680MKII
AKG CK63 -> AKG C460B -> DR-680MKII
AKG CK63 -> nBob actives -> Baby NBox -> R-09/DR2d

Offline mcfoster

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Re: shotgun mics usage
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2022, 12:58:22 PM »
Thank You. Tiried em last night. Not the magic bullet I was hoping for in that venue, but the crowd was insanely loud and chatty... I went vents up. Tried hypers from the same spot the second set. Sound different but good as well, but half the crowd left by then. Anyhow, good option to have around..
It varies

 

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