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Author Topic: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)  (Read 52698 times)

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Offline roffels

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #300 on: May 14, 2022, 01:59:40 PM »
Anyone have experience getting soundboard feeds on the PCM-A10? My Roland r07 needs attenuation/pads or else the soundboard feed clips - do I need those for the Sony as well?
PCM M-10 can take 2 volts on the inputs. Rock that stuff.
If the level knob is over 7 or 8 then the input is too low
if the level knob is UNDER 1 then the input is too hot.
Sweet spot on Sony is usually 3-4 out of 10 on the input.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/pcm-m10.htm
3.5mm Sockets (2)
Quote
Stereo mic input (powered): 22k Ω or 3.9 k Ω depending on where you read it, 0.9 mV minimum, 2.5 mV rated.
Stereo LINE input: 22 kΩ, 500 mV minimum, 2 V rated.
Thanks, but to clarify, I'm asking about the a10, not the m10, if it makes any difference.

Offline gmm6797

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #301 on: May 14, 2022, 07:27:25 PM »
Good call. This is the A10 thread

Offline morst

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #302 on: May 15, 2022, 06:02:43 PM »
Thanks, but to clarify, I'm asking about the a10, not the m10, if it makes any difference.
OOPS yes it probably does, let me find out.
Using the built in mics and limiter I find that a level setting of 6 works well on the PCM-A10, yes, the actual A 10 with an A.


ok I have some EXCELLENT news to report.
A-10 also takes 2 volts. Hot stuff.


https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684402.html

Technical Specifications >
Input jack (stereo mini-jack)
   
MIC IN (Plug-in-power supported)
Input impedance: approx. 3.9 kΩ
Rated input level: approx. 2.5 mV
Minimum input level: approx. 1 mV

Audio IN
Input impedance: approx. 4.7 kΩ
Rated input level: approx. 2 V   <----- THIS RIGHT HERE!
Minimum input level: approx. 18 mV

Offline roffels

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #303 on: May 16, 2022, 12:15:05 AM »
Thanks, but to clarify, I'm asking about the a10, not the m10, if it makes any difference.
OOPS yes it probably does, let me find out.
Using the built in mics and limiter I find that a level setting of 6 works well on the PCM-A10, yes, the actual A 10 with an A.


ok I have some EXCELLENT news to report.
A-10 also takes 2 volts. Hot stuff.


https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684402.html

Technical Specifications >
Input jack (stereo mini-jack)
   
MIC IN (Plug-in-power supported)
Input impedance: approx. 3.9 kΩ
Rated input level: approx. 2.5 mV
Minimum input level: approx. 1 mV

Audio IN
Input impedance: approx. 4.7 kΩ
Rated input level: approx. 2 V   <----- THIS RIGHT HERE!
Minimum input level: approx. 18 mV

Thank you. You're much better at finding specs than I am.

Offline jj69

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #304 on: May 16, 2022, 12:41:40 AM »
So my THIRD Sony PCM-A10 is now DEAD. 

Well, the RIGHT channel is nearly dead.   I recorded a show tonight using external cardioid mics > 12V battery box > PCM-A10 line input.  I noticed that my right channel gain was significantly lower than my left channel.  To be precise, it's exactly 18.5 db lower!  Using the same mics and battery box, but swapping in my Roland R-07 instead of the Sony, I round that the gain is equal in both channels.  So it's definitely the A10 and not the mics or battery box.  I recorded a show a couple of weeks back and the right channel was 8db down.  I recorded a couple of shows in between with no issues, so I hoped it was an anomaly.  Apparently not.  It will be completely dead in a couple of weeks, I'm sure. 

I know that because this is EXACTLY what happened with my two previous PCM-A10's.  Each of them succumbed to failure of the RIGHT channel.  The failure is through the Line Input only.  the internal mics still work if you care to use them.  As absurd as this is, another local taper has been through exactly the same experience.  He too has had exactly THREE Sony PCM-A10s fail in exactly the same manner, over approximately the same length of time. 

Has anyone else here experienced this issue?  I'm amazed there aren't dozens of A10 owners here complaining about it.  Does anyone know if it's possible to repair the problem?  Any idea what could be the cause?  Is it possible the 12V battery box is too much for the line input to handle?  That's the best guess I can come up with other than poor build quality. 

I was able to exchange my first two PCM-A10 units for a replacement, but that's impossible now since there are no A10's available, most likely due to the chip shortage.  I guess it's back to the larger, quirky Roland R-07 for now...

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #305 on: May 16, 2022, 07:25:53 AM »
Maybe that's why there are none available - maybe it's in essence been withdrawn due to this issue?? Pure speculation of course.  I'll try to test mine in the next 24 hours.  It's actually rarely been used so if it does have a problem, it's not due to wear and tear, it'll be a natural death...

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #306 on: May 16, 2022, 08:38:11 AM »

Has anyone else here experienced this issue?  I'm amazed there aren't dozens of A10 owners here complaining about it.  Does anyone know if it's possible to repair the problem?  Any idea what could be the cause?  Is it possible the 12V battery box is too much for the line input to handle?  That's the best guess I can come up with other than poor build quality. 


Levels on mine are all good, almost 2.5 years after I bought it. (I use a 9V battery box, FWIW.)

I take it Sony didn't offer any explanation when you returned the first two?

Offline guitard

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #307 on: May 16, 2022, 09:45:02 AM »

Has anyone else here experienced this issue?  I'm amazed there aren't dozens of A10 owners here complaining about it.  Does anyone know if it's possible to repair the problem?  Any idea what could be the cause?  Is it possible the 12V battery box is too much for the line input to handle?  That's the best guess I can come up with other than poor build quality. 


Levels on mine are all good, almost 2.5 years after I bought it. (I use a 9V battery box, FWIW.)

Everything you said (to include 9v BB) is the same for me; except it's only been a year and half since I bought my A10.  I average around two shows a week (always  >:D ) and have put a lot of hours on it.

If there is an issue with build quality, I feel fortunate to have gotten one doesn't suffer from that (fingers crossed - at least not yet!).
Mics: Schoeps MK41s >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #308 on: May 17, 2022, 02:29:21 AM »
I just charged mine up and gave it a quick test - mainly using Roland in-ear binaurals as the source - it's working just fine, I am happy to report.  But in effect, it's virtually new.

Things I discovered - the Roland binaurals do give a wider frequency response than the built in mics, though the built in mics don't sound unpleasant or anything - just a bit lacking.  (Tesit track on Tannoy monitors sitting close was Clapton's "River of Tears" which I always use for such tests).  However, stereo imaging from the built-in mics was radically better when the mics are in the pointing-outward position rather than the crossed position   They came quite close to the image from the Rolands in terms of stereo width.  I guess in a way that's to be expected but I didn't think the difference would be so marked.  I won't use it again in the crossed position!

It's a neat little device, isn't it.  Must use it more. Date of last file on there is 7 March 2021.... And it makes the ultimate lightweight rig with in-ear binaurals.

Offline morst

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #309 on: May 17, 2022, 03:46:33 PM »
  I won't use it again in the crossed position!

Wow! Now I gotta check!

Offline guitard

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #310 on: May 19, 2022, 07:30:04 AM »
I regularly >:D audio and video at the same time.  Consequently, I move my body and arms around a lot more than most tapers.  I found that my A10, that I keep in an inside vest/coat pocket, was getting jostled around and that was causing intermittent connection problems.  Three or four shows back, I decided to use some velcro to lockdown the plug input so that it wouldn't be as susceptible to getting jostled.  I have had zero issues since I did this.  I use the app on my phone to control the A10, so even though the power button and screen are covered up by velcro, it isn't a problem.

Mics: Schoeps MK41s >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline morst

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #311 on: Yesterday at 01:01:53 PM »
  I won't use it again in the crossed position!

Wow! Now I gotta check!
I checked. I am so glad Ozpeter posted this.
I won't use it again in the crossed position!
Crossed sounds dead in the headphones compared to spread.
A little arrival time difference helps to magnify spacial cues, especially since the distance is so much less than my own inter-aural distance (the distance between my ears).
It's like in 3-d photography with stereo pairs, where taking the frames from approximately one inter-ocular distance yields realistic "playback" with a stereoscope viewer, but using a very small distance magnifies perspectives. See quote from videomaker website:

from https://www.videomaker.com/article/14912-shooting-for-3d/
Quote
In order for your footage to best simulate what viewers would see with their own eyes, it’s important to match the human interocular distance as closely as possible. This means that the distance between the centers of your camera lenses should be approximately 2.5″.
Ignoring the interocular distance can result in some surprising and even unpleasant effects. Move the cameras too far apart, and the world will look like it’s been miniaturized. Move them too close together, and suddenly the smallest object appears gigantic. 2.5″

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #312 on: Yesterday at 08:55:30 PM »
It's just possible that you and I were the only people unware of how much better it sounds using spread mics, but still, clearly worth mentioning.  Purely in terms of stereo image, I think the A10 (in the spread configuration) is streets ahead of the M10 which relies on slightly spaced omnis for stereo - which is doomed to failure.  IMHO.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #313 on: Yesterday at 09:49:14 PM »
I don't believe in crossed mics for anything, so not a surprise to me. X-Y is about the least desirable configuration I can think of. I know the A-10 mics are not X-Y, but close enough for me to steer clear if I ever ran the internal for anything other than recording the Thanksgiving dinner conversation.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at LMA(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

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Mics: Microtech Gefell M21 (with Nbob actives) | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
Pres: babynbox
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D | Tascam DR-40 | Sony PCM-A10 | Edirol R-4

Offline morst

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #314 on: Today at 05:00:36 AM »
I don't believe in crossed mics for anything, so not a surprise to me. X-Y is about the least desirable configuration I can think of. I know the A-10 mics are not X-Y, but close enough for me to steer clear if I ever ran the internal for anything other than recording the Thanksgiving dinner conversation.
What if I wanted to record the chirps of a single bird? Just get the sound of the song itself for identification purposes, not to capture any particular natural soundscape?
Would the tightly spaced (crossed) pair eliminate any undesirable location cues in such a use?
 
(Now I am trying to think of a reason to use the mics pointing in!?!  :o   )

 

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