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Author Topic: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)  (Read 43807 times)

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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #255 on: January 05, 2022, 10:26:31 AM »
I don't mean to dog anyone's tapes, it's not the difference between bad/good. It's good/very good to great. I've heard several good bnb_A10 tapes. Just no great ones.

It's a bit of a moot point for the near future, my understanding is that the parts Doug needs are backordered until 2023.

Taste in tonality is subjective, just like everything else. I certainly understand the itch to mod.

I've been very happy with my nbox > A10 combo and have been increasingly using it except for the times I want to run 4 channel.

line in, it sounds very solid, imo.
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Cobalt/Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers.

Offline vanark

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #256 on: January 05, 2022, 10:52:12 AM »
I think the bottom line is that MakersMarc is looking for something in a small handheld recorder that isn't present in the A-10, something that may be esoteric to others and has no impact to their ability to use the A-10 in their specific situations without any apparent negative impact on the overall quality and enjoyment of the recording of a high SPL audience recording, which is how many of us use it.  The advantages seen by others is not enough for MakersMarc and he prefers to use a different recorder that others feel do not meet their requirements of size and convenience. Fair enough, but I think it is a minority opinion at this point without specific examples. At the end of the day, I let my ears tell me what is working to get the job done and my ears tell me the A-10 is a fine device for the purpose.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at lma(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #257 on: January 05, 2022, 12:23:20 PM »

um, no. I don't believe that is what I'm hearing. I've owned plenty of IEMs that give the same aural representation.

Maybe share a sample? As an A10 user, I'd be interested to hear what I should be avoiding.

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #258 on: January 05, 2022, 12:33:11 PM »
Rory, here’s an example. Your 12/3/21 TTB recording. Any Ed Tyre recording. If you all want to drink the kool aid that a deck with  85 or so db of dynamic range sounds as good as one with 126 or so, have at it. I think I’ve yapped enough about it. I’ve offered several tapers a marantz warm mod 620 loner, no takers. To be clear, I’m not saying the A10 mic in recordings aren’t good. They are.

This is an old, old debate. Back then, the folks running stock sbm1s said they didn’t need a mod, that it sounded “just fine” to them. Or that an AD1000 wasn’t worth it. The Bnb>A10 tapes are just fine. I personally have always looked for a lot more than fine. The payoff for spending ridiculous sums on a pair of mics, tickets, the hassle of sneaking gear in, has to be more than just fine. That doesn’t necessarily mean more expensive. My 620 decks all cost around $100 used, the mods $200. Hell many of us spend more than $200 on cables and mounts. Certainly less than running an outboard pre.

Open offer to established members, a Marantz 620 warm mod deck so you can comp yourselves.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 12:34:45 PM by MakersMarc »
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Cobalt/Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers.

Offline vanark

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #259 on: January 05, 2022, 07:57:16 PM »
Rory, here’s an example. Your 12/3/21 TTB recording. Any Ed Tyre recording. If you all want to drink the kool aid that a deck with  85 or so db of dynamic range sounds as good as one with 126 or so, have at it.  I’ve offered several tapers a marantz warm mod 620 loner, no takers. To be clear, I’m not saying the A10 mic in recordings aren’t good. They are.

I think this is exactly what I said, without the snarky comment about drinking the kool-aid. Your comment is subjective without any real detail to what is insufficient about the recordings.

This is an old, old debate. Back then, the folks running stock sbm1s said they didn’t need a mod, that it sounded “just fine” to them. Or that an AD1000 wasn’t worth it. The Bnb>A10 tapes are just fine. I personally have always looked for a lot more than fine. The payoff for spending ridiculous sums on a pair of mics, tickets, the hassle of sneaking gear in, has to be more than just fine. That doesn’t necessarily mean more expensive. My 620 decks all cost around $100 used, the mods $200. Hell many of us spend more than $200 on cables and mounts. Certainly less than running an outboard pre.

Not about cost. I get the feeling there may be a fair bit of nostalgia about "mods" to equipment. Using SBM1's as an example? I've been perfectly satisfied with various stock handhelds and other small form factor recorders. I sold my outboard preamps years ago because I didn't feel it was worth the effort of carrying the extra gear and batteries to power it. I'm not saying it was better without the preamp, just that the small, small difference was not worth my effort.  For the record, I loved my full body AKG 480's with a UA-5 warm+ mod preamp. But, I doubt I'll ever run that rig again. I still have the UA-5 here.

Back to the points for others reading this thread, lest someone think the recorder is not a good choice for what we do:
1. An A-10 is tiny and a great part of a low profile rig.
2. The sound quality is good, in my opinion, much more than adequate. Maybe not great, but certainly good and most users listening to audience recordings are very satisfied with the resulting audio.
3. The ability to fully control the A-10 via bluetooth in a world where everyone has their phone out at a concert adds to the low profile value.

To me, the quality of most recordings done today with the right gear is far superior to what was done 25-30 years ago, modded or unmodded. A baby nbox > A-10 is a nice back end of a rig and I am more than satisfied with my results and the results I listen to by others. It was recordings by others that made me sell my M-10 and buy the A-10 and then buy a baby nbox. I wanted a quality low profile rig. I am stating this as an opinion and suggest anyone looking for options to include the A-10 in their own listening comps. The last many pages have been critical of the recorder and I want to even out the discussion a bit.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at lma(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

Link to LMA Recordings

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Mics: Microtech Gefell M21 (with Nbob actives) | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
Pres: babynbox
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D | Tascam DR-40 | Sony PCM-A10 | Edirol R-4

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #260 on: January 06, 2022, 12:44:17 PM »
Yeah Rory, I could have said what I wanted without the koolaid comment, apologies.

Doug reminded me that good sound isn’t always quantifiable in specs, even though the chips he uses spec out much, much better. Our ears are the best judge. If you like how your A10 sounds, that’s great. You should rejoice in saving the money that a modded recorder costs, while making recordings you are happy with. At the end of the day, that’s all that matters.

Offer to lend a warm mod marantz 620 is always open to established members.
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Cobalt/Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers.

Offline edtyre

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #261 on: January 06, 2022, 11:12:10 PM »
Wow i just read some of this! I wasn't happy with my bnb > r-5 or m-10 combo at all, my nbox > r-5 smoked it
but as soon as i got an r-07, i noticed a big diff in sound quality. You know why? Has nothing to do with dynamic range.
It's the adc!! When i got the A-10, the sound was even better, so now that's the recorder i use for stealth only. I'm the only one
that has to like the way my recordings sound. Also everyone i know runs line in to the A-10.

Nicky makes great gear!

music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #262 on: January 07, 2022, 01:30:43 PM »
Hey Ed, sorry I didn’t mean to dog your tapes, I have dozens and all are solid.

So you run line in? Where are the A10 levels? Do you get enough gain?

I agree, I love Nicky’s gear. I have two sets of kcy nbobs, and two babynboxs.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 01:33:08 PM by MakersMarc »
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Cobalt/Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers.

Offline edtyre

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #263 on: January 07, 2022, 06:43:32 PM »
Rory, here’s an example. Your 12/3/21 TTB recording. Any Ed Tyre recording. If you all want to drink the kool aid that a deck with  85 or so db of dynamic range sounds as good as one with 126 or so, have at it. I think I’ve yapped enough about it. I’ve offered several tapers a marantz warm mod 620 loner, no takers
edtyre is the name and the A-10 is my game!
I run mine with baby nbox set gain at 20 and go up or down
from there line in!
Listen…Kris Wescott and I both ran stock 620’s
a while ago, we both thought they sounded good
but there was something quirky about it that I didn’t
like (can’t remember now) so I sold mine.
Send me a pm, I’ll try out your modded 620.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 06:50:22 PM by edtyre »
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline dactylus

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #264 on: January 08, 2022, 08:30:19 AM »
Rory, here’s an example. Your 12/3/21 TTB recording. Any Ed Tyre recording. If you all want to drink the kool aid that a deck with  85 or so db of dynamic range sounds as good as one with 126 or so, have at it. I think I’ve yapped enough about it. I’ve offered several tapers a marantz warm mod 620 loner, no takers
edtyre is the name and the A-10 is my game!
I run mine with baby nbox set gain at 20 and go up or down
from there line in!
Listen…Kris Wescott and I both ran stock 620’s
a while ago, we both thought they sounded good
but there was something quirky about it that I didn’t
like (can’t remember now) so I sold mine.
Send me a pm, I’ll try out your modded 620.

 :cheers:

+T --> MakersMarc & edtyre - Many a great recording from both of you!

hot licks > microphones > recorder



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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #265 on: January 08, 2022, 11:57:50 AM »
Rory, here’s an example. Your 12/3/21 TTB recording. Any Ed Tyre recording. If you all want to drink the kool aid that a deck with  85 or so db of dynamic range sounds as good as one with 126 or so, have at it. I think I’ve yapped enough about it. I’ve offered several tapers a marantz warm mod 620 loner, no takers
edtyre is the name and the A-10 is my game!
I run mine with baby nbox set gain at 20 and go up or down
from there line in!
Listen…Kris Wescott and I both ran stock 620’s
a while ago, we both thought they sounded good
but there was something quirky about it that I didn’t
like (can’t remember now) so I sold mine.
Send me a pm, I’ll try out your modded 620.

PM sent
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

Home: the Stereo Hospital budget refurb rig: Lappie>DragonFly Cobalt/Red with Jitterbug>Nikko NR520 amp>B&W V202 speakers.

Offline edtyre

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #266 on: January 16, 2022, 12:13:43 PM »
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline vanark

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If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at lma(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

Link to LMA Recordings

Link to Team Dirty South Recordings on the LMA

Mics: Microtech Gefell M21 (with Nbob actives) | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
Pres: babynbox
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D | Tascam DR-40 | Sony PCM-A10 | Edirol R-4

Offline jj69

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #268 on: January 16, 2022, 02:22:32 PM »
A fellow taper had the Left channel on his A10 fail during a show last night. Left channel is nearly dead, maybe 30db down in comparison to right channel.

The exact same thing has happened to me with not one, but two different A10s.  Left channel drops 20-30dbs, then eventually fails entirely. The problem occurs via Line In only. Both internal mics will still work. I'm now on my third A10, and it seems fine so far (fingers crossed). 

Just wondering how pervasive this issue is.  Has anyone else had the Left channel fail on your A10?

Separate question: The A10 is sold out everywhere. Anyone know a place with stock?  Probably due to COVID chip shortage...

Offline morst

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #269 on: January 16, 2022, 02:44:07 PM »
Just wondering how pervasive this issue is.  Has anyone else had the Left channel fail on your A10?
I sent my first PCM-A10 back to Sony service and they replaced it because the line in RIGHT channel was lower than the left.

 

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