Topic: Maybe a decent Universal Player option?

[RebelRebel]

Micheal Bishop from Telarc mentioned This

on another forum, thought id mention here.

I am ordering mine today.

teddy

[cshepherd]

We saw quite a few OPPO players at CES, some in some pretty big systems.  Thanks for the reminder.

Chris

[Javier Cinakowski]

Do you think that an upconverting DVD player like the one above would have a better upconverting engine as compared to the one in my TV (Sony Grand Wega SXRD 1080p 55") 

My current DVD player is great, except it does not upconvert....

[carlbeck]

I am so leary when I see a 5lb deck being touted as a great player. I have never heard the Oppo but every time I hear a budget giant killer deck I walk away dissapointed. This one has gotten so much praise maybe it is finally THE one but who knows until you try it, for the price it would be awesome if it was a killer deck.

[scervin]

Not so sure how the unit sounds, but it offers a great picture.

[shane]

The bset buy in the market today is the Denon 2910s and 3910s.  Deales are blowing prices out on these to make room for the new models.  I saw 3910 going for just over $300 somewhere the other day.

Shane

[carlbeck]

The bset buy in the market today is the Denon 2910s and 3910s.  Deales are blowing prices out on these to make room for the new models.  I saw 3910 going for just over $300 somewhere the other day.

Shane

I was looking everywhere less than a month ago for a deal like that? I didn't even find any 2910's for less than $350.

[scervin]

The bset buy in the market today is the Denon 2910s and 3910s.  Deales are blowing prices out on these to make room for the new models.  I saw 3910 going for just over $300 somewhere the other day.

Shane

Sure it wasn't the 2910?  3910 used would be $700 I'd think

[shane]

Oops.  That was a mis-type.  2910s a going for around three bills.  Still a great deal.

Shane

[SparkE!]

I am ordering mine today.

teddy

Be sure to tell us how it works out.  When you play DVDs, what are you planning to use for a display?  The thing only has a HDMI video output.  No component video, s-video or composite video.

[ts]

I saw some 2910's today in the 340 range and 3910's in the 575 range. My 2910 is already fucking up. Won't play DVDa's worth a shit. Less than 1 year old. Still plays movies . Not what I bought it for . Lucky I only paid around 4 and change when I bought it.

Teddy, I hope this unit here is promising. I'm tired of buying Denon boat anchors.

So, HDMI is not the choice output

[bgalizio]

I am ordering mine today.

teddy

Be sure to tell us how it works out.  When you play DVDs, what are you planning to use for a display?  The thing only has a HDMI video output.  No component video, s-video or composite video.

It has S-video and composite. Just no component. Main use is HDMI for the upsampling of DVDs.

[SparkE!]

I am ordering mine today.

teddy

Be sure to tell us how it works out.  When you play DVDs, what are you planning to use for a display?  The thing only has a HDMI video output.  No component video, s-video or composite video.

It has S-video and composite. Just no component. Main use is HDMI for the upsampling of DVDs.

Doh!  Yes it does.  I was looking at the comparison matrix and saw no mention of the S-video or composite outputs.  I see it there on the Features & Specs tab now.  Thanks for pointing that out.

[Tim]

I saw some 2910's today in the 340 range and 3910's in the 575 range. My 2910 is already fucking up. Won't play DVDa's worth a shit. Less than 1 year old. Still plays movies . Not what I bought it for . Lucky I only paid around 4 and change when I bought it.

Teddy, I hope this unit here is promising. I'm tired of buying Denon boat anchors.

So, HDMI is not the choice output

so the 2910's have issues? I hadn't heard that before

edit: just saw your post below on this hmmm I'd be interested in knowing if other people have had issues

[ts]

I saw some 2910's today in the 340 range and 3910's in the 575 range. My 2910 is already fucking up. Won't play DVDa's worth a shit. Less than 1 year old. Still plays movies . Not what I bought it for . Lucky I only paid around 4 and change when I bought it.

Teddy, I hope this unit here is promising. I'm tired of buying Denon boat anchors.

So, HDMI is not the choice output

so the 2910's have issues? I hadn't heard that before

edit: just saw your post below on this hmmm I'd be interested in knowing if other people have had issues

Well, it may not be the 2910. I'm just searching for answers. Bad batch of DVD's? Problem with DVD Audio Creator? Problem with the PC used to burn? Seems my older DVD-A's are fine and the latest batch I burned seem to have the problem. That may have ruled out the 2910.

[Craig T]

24/96 via coax for DVD-V and/or DVD-A?

[RebelRebel]

also...There is an audio -centric version, priced at 149 USD, ...that is the one I bought. the one with the whatever it is video engine upsampling blah blah(I am a moron with video terms) is 229 I think. They will tell you of the other one if you ask. Mine should be here via fedex today or tommorow. I dont have the slightest interest in video or HD so the 229 one was a waste of money for me. I simply wanted a universal player for my Audio Setup.

[som]

*Bump*

Don't forget to post a review!

[RebelRebel]

well, i dont really know how to write reviews other than to say that the unit has handled every format i have thrown at it(*sacd, dvda, every format cdr, dvd r/rw, mp3, vcd, etc etc), sounds better than my Denon, is smaller, more sleek, internal mechanical noise is nil, and so far, I really, REALLY love it. I cant comment on the video quality as I dont use it for that purpose.

what do people want to know, specifically? I will be glad to answer questions.

[Nick's Picks]

does it best the Toshiba in terms of redbook and DVDA ?


Teddy...give me a call.

[SparkE!]

So, what was the specific model that you got?  You said that you got the audio-centric version for $149, but I'm not sure which one you consider to be the audio-centric version.

[Craig T]

what do people want to know, specifically? I will be glad to answer questions.

does it output 24/96 via coax for DVD-V and DVD-A?  Some players won't go higher than 24/48.

[som]

well, i dont really know how to write reviews other than to say that the unit has handled every format i have thrown at it(*sacd, dvda, every format cdr, dvd r/rw, mp3, vcd, etc etc), sounds better than my Denon, is smaller, more sleek, internal mechanical noise is nil, and so far, I really, REALLY love it. I cant comment on the video quality as I dont use it for that purpose.

what do people want to know, specifically? I will be glad to answer questions.

That's a good start....I think you have me sold on it!

+T

[RebelRebel]

you call them and ask the model...they will tell you. I dont have mine in front of me, (at work) but they(at oppo) will know what you are talking about.

So, what was the specific model that you got?  You said that you got the audio-centric version for $149, but I'm not sure which one you consider to be the audio-centric version.

SPark....  http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd.html

also..

does the oppo support gapless playback>?>??There are a small number of SACD discs on the market that are mastered to play continuously without pause between tracks. Starting with the "Batch: 4A-0111" firmware, the DV-970HD supports gapless playback of SACD. Earlier firmware could cause a silent gap of about 1 second between each SACD tracks. Gapless playback of audio CD is also fully supported with the DV-970HD product.

[Mike R.]

Do you think that an upconverting DVD player like the one above would have a better upconverting engine as compared to the one in my TV (Sony Grand Wega SXRD 1080p 55") 

My current DVD player is great, except it does not upconvert....

It's pretty much of a random guess which component is going to have a better scaler.  New, better, cheaper video processing chips are coming out pretty quickly these days.  It's hard to make a guess on whose is going to work better.  Also hard to guess if a new design is going to have a scaler that is _better_ or one that's _cheaper_.

There is often an advantage of letting the DVD player do the deinterlacing.  A correctly mastered DVD has information on each field that can help tell the deinterlacer how to do its job.  This information is not passed across any of the analog or digital interfaces to the TV.  Sometimes even a cheap DVD player will have better deinterlacing than an expensive TV -- given a correctly mastered disc.

I would not go buy a new DVD player just to move the scaling into the DVD player unless your TV is doing a particularly bad job.  Sometimes you're happier transmitting lower frequency (lower resolution) stuff over the cables.

[audBall]

what do people want to know, specifically? I will be glad to answer questions.

does it output 24/96 via coax for DVD-V and DVD-A?  Some players won't go higher than 24/48.

I second this question as I'm currently building a new playback system...

[RebelRebel]

a user created(non-commercial) dvd-a should output whatever rate you choose over the coax outputs...however, COMMERCIAL discs will not play over the coax outs because of the inability to implement copy protection over that coaxial connection....so show tapes should be fine..

what do people want to know, specifically? I will be glad to answer questions.

does it output 24/96 via coax for DVD-V and DVD-A?  Some players won't go higher than 24/48.

I second this question as I'm currently building a new playback system...

[audBall]

a user created(non-commercial) dvd-a should output whatever rate you choose over the coax outputs...however, COMMERCIAL discs will not play over the coax outs because of the inability to implement copy protection over that coaxial connection....so show tapes should be fine..

what do people want to know, specifically? I will be glad to answer questions.

does it output 24/96 via coax for DVD-V and DVD-A?  Some players won't go higher than 24/48.

I second this question as I'm currently building a new playback system...

I've seen some units that resample commercial discs on the coax-out for that purpose.  This one won't even send a digi-signal for a commercial disc?  ..not that I have alot of commercial DVD-A's at 24/96 

[RebelRebel]

  This one won't even send a digi-signal for a commercial disc?  ..not that I have alot of commercial DVD-A's at 24/96 
[/quote]

not through Coax, no...through HDMI ..yes..though I guess it depends on if the disc is copy protected or not.

[Craig T]

thanks.

gapless playback of non-commercial recorded DVD-V or DVD-A?  this has been hit/miss on the cheaper players, especially burned DVD-V's with 24/96 audio.

a user created(non-commercial) dvd-a should output whatever rate you choose over the coax outputs...however, COMMERCIAL discs will not play over the coax outs because of the inability to implement copy protection over that coaxial connection....so show tapes should be fine..

what do people want to know, specifically? I will be glad to answer questions.

does it output 24/96 via coax for DVD-V and DVD-A?  Some players won't go higher than 24/48.

I second this question as I'm currently building a new playback system...

[SparkE!]

You have to turn HDMI off before you can get output from either of the S/PDIF digital (coax or optical) outputs.  If you have HDMI output enabled, S/PDIF is disabled according to the user manuals for the DV-970HD.  There's one version of the user manual that was co-authored by audioholics that is particularly easy to understand.  Both versions of the user manual are available on OPPO's web site.

[Nick's Picks]

interesting.
I ordered a 970HD today so I can see if its any better than the already cheap universal I have.

[Nick's Picks]

what I really like about these is that Rick Shultz is doing mods, and they are not all that expensive. I'm going to have mine done....IF....with his mods he can somehow add a toslink INPUT jack into the signal chain somewhere.
w/its digital volume control (on the remote), this could be a slick minimalist approach and using the OPPO to drive an amp directly.  I like that option.
but I need more than one input for my digital needs. 

[carlbeck]

The only problem with the minimal route of just a volume control is that usually the system will lack dynamics. In my past systems the pre-amp always adds an increase in dynamics & slam, especially in a tube system. Not to say that from a purely economical point it wouldn't produce good music but usually once a good pre is inserted in the system the system will sound better & more three dimensional.

[Nick's Picks]

this is digital volume control.  it'll lack at low volumes, but be fine once its turned up.
Isn't there a saying that "the best preamp...is no preamp" ?
;-)

economics dont really play into this here.  its a cheap deck, and well worth the try.  everything I can eliminate between the bits and the speakers will help.

[carlbeck]

Nope, I gotta disagree with you 100% especially after living with just volume control on the Benchmark. A pre adds to the system. No pre is better then a crappy pre but but a good pre will blow away a volume control digital or not.

[Nick's Picks]

i've got no preamp in my system now, and even you agree its the best my living room has ever sounded.

[som]

Teddy - Are you using this as a transport, or are you using the D/A as well? I don't have a DAC, so am interested in the quality of the analog output.

Thanks!

[carlbeck]

Nick, you have a pre-amp stage in your integrated amp, it is still an additional stage in your amp is my point, not a passive volume control. Technically I don't have a pre-amp in addition too my integrated either 

[RebelRebel]

Teddy - Are you using this as a transport, or are you using the D/A as well? I don't have a DAC, so am interested in the quality of the analog output.

Thanks!

right now, using the D/A as well.

[Nick's Picks]

i dont believe there is a preamp stage in there.  not sure though

[thegreatgumbino]

Anymore feedback on these units, fellas?

[RebelRebel]

nothing more to say other than I love mine. If you per chance dont enjoy it, there are a number of places that mod them. but stock it clearly trounces my denon . pinoneer, and toshiba

http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/

http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Modifications_to_DVD_and_Univer.html

[Nick's Picks]

Rick Shultz MOD is where i'd be going if I was using its analog output.

any whoo...
awesome video.
killer features
volume control
USB input allows you to attach any USB HDD and it will read the contents and play files it recognizes, wav, mp3..etc.  you can scroll through it via the remote and using the TV to navigate.

so if it sounds great on its own, and you can dump $3-400 into it in modifications to make it sound seriously great....and it gives you all those other features, seems like a nice digital front end option to put in front of any amp you like.  tubes,/T/D/SS, bring it on!

[Tim]

huh - I like the USB function. All I need is a decent transport in front of the Bel Canto

[SparkE!]

USB input allows you to attach any USB HDD and it will read the contents and play files it recognizes, wav, mp3..etc. 

True, but it only accepts USB-connected mass storage devices that are formatted with FAT-style formatting.  NTFS is not supported.

Also, wav and wma are the only file formats I've been able to verify that it plays and some folks are saying that you can only see up to 750 files.  See the following quotes from the AVS Forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=682896&page=64&pp=30

Neuromancer     08-28-06 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by oliverlim
1. which would be the best format to store rip my music files(Lossless)

There is only one lossless format at this time: WAV. OPPO is looking into FLAC and APE, but they have not made a firmware release with these supported formats.

2. how I would store them in the HD? All in a single directory? Is there a limit of files per directory in this case on the oppo?

There is a limit for number of files. I believe it is around 750 files. You can store your files on a single directory, or in multiple directories.

3. Is there a way to have to have preferred list of songs to play which you can select?

There is no way to assign a prefered playlist on the DV-970HD.

[Tim]

any thoughts on good ways to add weight to these decks? lead shot on top? add something inside the case?

i feel like with my toshiba the spinning of the disc is enough to move the whole deck it is so light

[Nick's Picks]

slap a small sandbag on it.  or bean bag....etc.
even w/nothing on it, its an excellent transport.

[janka]

Tim you might want to try adding some Dynamat to the inside of the case. I've got some I was going to use on my Thorens before I upgraded. I'll have my oppo today or tomorrow and will probably use the dynamat inside it.

http://www.dynamat.com/

[janka]

Received mine yesterday. Very pleased with the results thus far going through my Benchmark. However, I am getting a little blip between tracks on burnt DVD-A discs. Barely enough to be bothersome. Anyone else experiencing this or is it my discs? What firmware is everyones at, anyone up rev yet? I plan to try out the SD card slot this evening. I no longer have my PC intergated with my stereo the SD will be great for sampling shows before committing them to disc.

As for the vibration. It's pretty tightly built and I don't know that dynamat would fit inside the case. I think adding better feet or vibrapods my be a route to take.

Also impressed with the order processing speed. Ordered mine 10am Monday with priority mail shipping. They emailed me my delivery confirmation # within two hours and it was on my porch by 1pm Wednesday (CA>NH).

[Nick's Picks]

i'll try some dvd-a's out on mine today and see whats what.
I play everything from the PC these days.

oh, and what flash recorder are you going to use for these said samples?

[janka]

oh, and what flash recorder are you going to use for these said samples?

Flash recorder? I'm going to use my SanDisk USB Card Reader/Writer to move files from my HD to my SD card. Simple.

[Gutbucket]

USB input allows you to attach any USB HDD and it will read the contents and play files it recognizes, wav, mp3..etc. 

True, but it only accepts USB-connected mass storage devices that are formatted with FAT-style formatting.  NTFS is not supported.
Also, wav and wma are the only file formats I've been able to verify that it plays and some folks are saying that you can only see up to 750 files.  See the following quotes from the AVS Forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=682896&page=64&pp=30

Neuromancer     08-28-06 01:57 PM
There is only one lossless format at this time: WAV. OPPO is looking into FLAC and APE, but they have not made a firmware release with these supported formats.

Flac support would be very nice.. is this player firmware upgradable from a CDR?
Too bad about no NTFS but that's understandable and likely won't change.

I may have to pick one of these up, just as a spare if nothing else, before my Panasonic DVD-F87K 5-discer dies.

[janka]

Yes, the firmware update is via CD-R created from iso image downloads. Agree, Flac support would rule. 

[janka]

I tried out the card reader last night. It didn't recognize 24/48 waves or even 16 bit waves. It saw and played MP3's great  Mine is at the latest firmware too.

[Gutbucket]

I tried out the card reader last night. It didn't recognize 24/48 waves or even 16 bit waves. It saw and played MP3's great  Mine is at the latest firmware too.

Will it play 24/48 WAV's off a CDR/DVDR?

[Nick's Picks]

as long as they are burnt to DVD-V or DVD-A, yes.
bummer on the CF slot though.


here's to firmware upgrades!

[Gutbucket]

Ahhh... sounds like the issue is that it won't recognize a plain WAV data file.  In that case it might recognize the DVD-A (or -V) formatted files via the card reader.  I don't know why you'd want to do that though.  I was hoping to just pop a card in there after the show.  something for the next update!

[Craig T]

as long as they are burnt to DVD-V or DVD-A, yes.

gapless?

[Nick's Picks]

nice pic Craig.
thats what you looked like when you fell on me in Jersey 2003.
:-)

[Craig T]

   not me, but not far off.

back to my original Q:  does this thing output 24/96 from DVD-V?  that's the format I've been burning to lately and only need a new transport.  I'd gladly send a freebie 24/96 DVD-V for someone to try for me.

[Nick's Picks]

i'll give it a try, i've got some burnt.  in fact, i know i've played them and its running into my DAC.  not sure what its doing w/the signal though.

also noted in stereophiles review, this thing converts DSD > 24/88.2 PCM.  I have not tried to see if it also routes this signal out.

[kskreider]

placemarker. 

Shopping for something that also does DivX since our current one is a cheap p.o.s.  (Philips Dvp642)  I'd like to hear more about whether it is gapless and outputs 24/96.

[terrapinj]

got my 970 delivered by FedEx yesterday

it does seem to hickup a little between tracks when playing 24/48 DVD-A (created with DVD-Audiophile), gonna try a couple more discs and see how it goes.

[Nick's Picks]

again....why the PC rocks as a transport.

[nickgregory]

again....why the PC rocks as a transport.

or a player that works as it should

[Nick's Picks]

until a store bought DVD-A gets put through it and hickups, then i'll agree w/you.

[nickgregory]

until a store bought DVD-A gets put through it and hickups, then i'll agree w/you.

understood....all of these programs theoretically can cause problems since they may be authoring the discs differently, and the different media may cause issues.  Bottom line though, my Denon 2900 is a god send..plays everything I throw at it flawlessly, built like a tank and sounds fantastic.  that said, I will be getting one of the oppo units for video at some point in the near future though...

[Nick's Picks]

if you are getting one for vid, then its the 971 you want...but you probably know that.

[nickgregory]

thanks..actually I am going to get the 981 as that has HDMI output...just have to give the wife a month or so to forget that I bought a VS center channel then I can get away with buying this

[Nick's Picks]

maybe thats the one.  I know one of their models (maybe two) have superior video chips/performance over the 970. 

[edtyre]

Just got my DV-970HD for 161.00 to my door.

It sounds great, plays anything i put in it.... all homemade discs
Burnt DVDA's have a slight hiccup every track......big disappointment
for me and it outputs 24/48 via coax
Looks like i'm not getting rid of my other deck too soon.

ed

[janka]

......big disappointment
for me and it outputs 24/48 via coax

It will do 24/96 & 24/192 via coax if you turn-off the HDMI output.

[kskreider]

+T to both of you

[edtyre]

......big disappointment
for me and it outputs 24/48 via coax

It will do 24/96 & 24/192 via coax if you turn-off the HDMI output.

You are correct sir, just changed my setting and it works. +T
Nothing like making a false claim in a worldwide forum :-)


BTW......my opinion has changed about this deck. Its great!!!... except for the
hiccups on burnt DVD's. Plays all of my older vcds and svcds which i don't want to convert
just have a good player and this fits the bill, plus the DVDa's and SACD's sound great
and digital out 24/192  for 149.00

ed

[Nick's Picks]

Stereophile quotes "any misgivings I had pairing up a $150 deck with a $50k system were quickly laid to rest"

[SparkE!]

If it can't play burned DVD-A discs gaplessly, I'm not interested.  Period.

[Nick's Picks]

home burnt....
I dont believe a comercial DVD-A has been tried.

but then again...who burns those obsolete things anyway.

[edtyre]

home burnt....
I dont believe a comercial DVD-A has been tried.

but then again...who burns those obsolete things anyway.

I played all my Neil Young commercial DVDA's last night and they are gapless.

Nick is right, i play all my 24 bit files from the PC with
no problems, so the hiccups on the obsolete discs isn't that
big a deal for me.

[SparkE!]

home burnt....
I dont believe a comercial DVD-A has been tried.

but then again...who burns those obsolete things anyway.

True, but all my 24 bit discs are home burnt.

For the record, what program was used to author the home burnt, gappy recordings?  Was it DVD-Audiofile?  Do discs that are authored with DiscWelder have the gap problem?

[edtyre]

home burnt....
I dont believe a comercial DVD-A has been tried.

but then again...who burns those obsolete things anyway.

True, but all my 24 bit discs are home burnt.

For the record, what program was used to author the home burnt, gappy recordings?  Was it DVD-Audiofile?  Do discs that are authored with DiscWelder have the gap problem?

DVD-Audiofile for mine

[terrapinj]

home burnt....
I dont believe a comercial DVD-A has been tried.

but then again...who burns those obsolete things anyway.

True, but all my 24 bit discs are home burnt.

For the record, what program was used to author the home burnt, gappy recordings?  Was it DVD-Audiofile?  Do discs that are authored with DiscWelder have the gap problem?

DVD-Audiofile for mine

same here

[janka]

DVD-audiophile for mine too. The gap is very very slight, more of a hiccup in the sound. Starting when I was using DVD-Audio-Creator (this unit plays them fine) I stopped putting track marks in-between tracks that segue together. I generaly listen to things straight through and if something jams right into another song I listen to the whole passage.

For nick's question of who still burns these obsolete things.
1. People who don't want to worry about losing all there music when a drive crashes
2. People who don't want to fire up a PC everytime they want to listen to music.(or leave a pc on 24/7 for instant access)
3. People who use their PC for other things than just music.
4. People who realize a dvd-player sucks up a lot less electricity then a PC & Monitor.

[Nick's Picks]

For nick's question of who still burns these obsolete things.
1. People who don't want to worry about losing all there music when a drive crashes

ok.  I've learned my lesson there.  I archive the important stuff on DVD.

2. People who don't want to fire up a PC everytime they want to listen to music.(or leave a pc on 24/7 for instant access)
3. People who use their PC for other things than just music.
4. People who realize a dvd-player sucks up a lot less electricity then a PC & Monitor.

so ......, are you saying that a dude like me who has a PC sleeping in one room 24/7 and waking up on call to listen to tunes is ..., wasteful? 
you get too much exercise with all that vinyl your listening to.  you going  to start reffering to digital as "dat flaaabby muuuuzzic" there Hanz?

[janka]

so ......, are you saying that a dude like me who has a PC sleeping in one room 24/7 and waking up on call to listen to tunes is ..., wasteful? 

Yes, I am tough guy. You gonna do something about it this time.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,83765.30.html

[Nick's Picks]

you could always walk over and "turn on" the PC when you want to listen.  You could always  just have a fat NAS drive w/tunes on it for easy playing.  no different than walking over and turning on the TT and stereo, is it?

btw, i'm picking up a heavy bag and TWO sets of boxing gloves.
BBQs will be fun at my house this summer.

[Tim]

I got my a couple of weeks ago and I love it. great improvement over my toshiba. I haven't tried any of my sacd's or dvd-a's yet (I only own a couple) but oppo->bel canto dac-2 sounds very sweet to my ears.

I have to say, the build quality on this is pretty nice for a cheap and plastic deck. The toshiba was a piece of junk

[noahbickart]

There is another positive review of this unit in the June '07 Stereophile, look for the "Follow Ups." I don't use CDs or DVDs anymore, but for those who do.

-Noah

[noam]

24/96 via coax for DVD-V and/or DVD-A?

I did not see anyone mention this on this thread, but John Atkinson DID
measure the DV-970HD's S/PDIF jacks and found out that they DO output 96kHz and
192 kHz, BUT, that they dithered 24-bit audio to 16-bit.

In response to my question, John Atkinson e-mailed me privately that he measures S/PDIF jacks of other units he reviews as well, but he published only the results for this model for some reason. He gave me a list of DVD players that he measured to output 96/24 through their S/PDIF jacks, but they were all very expensive and/or unavailable. He volunteered to measure the S/PDIF jacks of his consumer grade players at home, but never followed through.

IS THERE ANY DVD PLAYER OUT THERE (for <$1000) THAT WAS MEASURED TO REALLY OUTPUT 96/24 THROUGH ITS S/PDIF jacks?

Noam

[janka]

Interesting and very lame if that is the case. I'm going to test mine this evening, 970(digi-out) > PC, and see what my soundcard syncs to for the digital input. It will go to ebay if it's dithering, my 30 day trial is up. Hopefully it's only doing that on commercial copyrighted DVD-A's.  It sure sounds like it's sending 24bit as my DVD-A's sound fuller to me than their cd counterparts dithered with WaveLabs UV22 plugin. Thanks for the heads-up.

[noam]

Hopefully it's only doing that on commercial copyrighted DVD-A's. 

I'm pretty sure he was NOT referring to commercial copyrighted DVD-A's, but to a test signal he burnt himself. He uses the same program I do for his privately recorded and burned DVD-A's (DiscWelder Bronze.)

Noam

[nickgregory]

I would be interested if you can post what other players he tested..when I had a 722, I hooked the digital output to my Pioneer Elite DV-45A and the 722 locked onto a 24/96 signal...curious what players show up that dont...

[noam]

I would be interested if you can post what other players he tested..when I had a 722, I hooked the digital output to my Pioneer Elite DV-45A and the 722 locked onto a 24/96 signal...curious what players show up that dont...

Technics DVD-A10, Ayre C-5xe,  McCormack MDP-1, Pioneer DV-AX10, Linn  Unidisk and Unidisk SC, Classe CDP-202,  Bel Canto PL-1A - all these output 96/24 according to JA. He didn't mention any player that did not.

Noam

[nickgregory]

I would be interested if you can post what other players he tested..when I had a 722, I hooked the digital output to my Pioneer Elite DV-45A and the 722 locked onto a 24/96 signal...curious what players show up that dont...

Technics DVD-A10, Ayre C-5xe,  McCormack MDP-1, Pioneer DV-AX10, Linn  Unidisk and Unidisk SC, Classe CDP-202,  Bel Canto PL-1A - all these output 96/24 according to JA. He didn't mention any player that did not.

Noam

so given that I am not going to throw my pioneer or denon 2900 under the bus

[noam]

24/96 via coax for DVD-V and/or DVD-A?

I did not see anyone mention this on this thread, but John Atkinson DID
measure the DV-970HD's S/PDIF jacks and found out that they DO output 96kHz and
192 kHz, BUT, that they dithered 24-bit audio to 16-bit.
Noam

I seems I got it wrong (and nobody here called me on that): What JA measured was that the Oppo doesn't even redither 24-bit data to 16, but merely truncates.

Noam

[Nick's Picks]

...but what if its internal DAC sounds damn good on its own?  its still well worth the dough for that performance only.

[Chris K]

amazon delivered an oppo 970hd to me yesterday. i bought it based on the recommendations here and the reviews on amazon, videohelp, and a few other places.

i will be using it it primarily for video into a 32" panasonic LCD via HDMI. played a few dvd's last nite and the upsampling is great. there is a hack that can make the oppo region free which is nice, but i havent i havent tried it yet. only thing i dont like so far is that the tray doesnt sem to open up all the way, but i can deal with that.

thanks to all for posting your thoughts and research on this unit to help me make my decision! 

[jmz93]

I've been using a Pioneer dv45A or is it 47A? universal player for a couple years now, for 2-channel playbac of CD's, DVD-A's, and SACD's.
I'm thinking of upgrading, but have no idea what the better universal players are for say, under a grand new.  What are you guys using?

I'm not using an external DAC ... it's just player, into 5w class A SET tube amp, into two speakers. Nothing more.
Looking for best bang for the buck.

I've heard great things about the Marantz 8001, andlove thatit's specifically for 2-channel audio, but it doesn't do dvd-a.

[RebelRebel]

...but what if its internal DAC sounds damn good on its own?  its still well worth the dough for that performance only.

and it does sound nice. Tests are nice and all, but how does it sound?? If it sounds good(to me) , then scientific data doesnt really mean much. I was reading  an interview with one of those old Engineers who used to work with Presley and Ernest Tubb, Roy Orbison, and others. The interviewer (one of those Audiophile magazine guys) said something about how it mustve been hard working with those old machines that had horrible Specs and measured terribly.. The guy said "we didnt look at graphs or data." " we just listened back then". Hilarious.

"IS THERE ANY DVD PLAYER OUT THERE (for <$1000) THAT WAS MEASURED TO REALLY OUTPUT 96/24 THROUGH ITS S/PDIF jacks? "

are you talking about your recordings or commercial stuff/? From what I understand, with your own recordings, 96/24 isnt an issue with SPDIF, but with commercial discs, it is.

Since the coaxial or optical digital audio output has no copy-protection ability (i.e. pure audio stream without encryption and authentication), audio from DVD-Audio or SACD cannot be output via these interfaces. To enjoy high resolution digital audio from DVD-Audio or SACD discs, please use the 5.1-channel analogue audio output.

[taosmay]

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate page for this introductory query, but I am trying to figure all this out, and need some insight. I want to switch from 16/44.1 recording(on my Sony d100 dat) to 24/48 recording(on my new Edirol R-09).

I want to be able to transfer the 24/48k audio from the r-09 to my computer - a mac mini/1.5GHz procesor,G4 - which I'm sure is easy via the usb cable, but then my computer dvd drive must first be able to burn dvd-a, or dvd-v disc's, in order for them to be recorded on that media at 24/48K, right? I'm pretty sure that my dvd drive on my mac mini does not have that capability. So I'm guessing that I first need to get a dvd drive capable of burning dvd-a, and/or dvd-v - is their a preference/big difference between these, if we are only talking about audio playback?

Then, once I have succesfully computer burned a 24/48k home audio recording onto a dvd-a/dvd-v disc - and want to play it back through my home stereo, and not the computer - I'll need a standalone dvd player to connect to my home stereo, which plays back 24/48k audio recordings, on dvd-a/dvd-v discs. At this point I think it gets a little fuzzy as to what player to get, by reading the previous posts, if I am using an exterrnal DAC or not...Currently I use a Aragon D2A2 DAC, but I think that only upsamples to 20bit - it's about 11 years old. I'm guessing it would be better to just bypass that unit, and get a new dvd player that does 24/48 on it's own. If I don't use the coax digi output of the dvd player, and just use the analog outputs to my preamp, I just need a dvd player that plays back audio on dvd-a or dvd-v disc's, in order to play back live shows I recorded at 24/48k?

Sorry, but is this a rambling, what the hell is he talking about post, and why didn't he do more searching, first?

Harold 

[Nick's Picks]

as long as you have a DVD burner, you're all set.

google up "dvd-audiofile".  you can take your masters, track them with CDWAV (which handles 24bit) and output them directly as FLAC files, which the audiofile software wants.

that software will take all of those FLAC files and create a DVD-A .iso image that you can then burn with any software capable of burning an .iso.  which should be just about anything.

as for playback...
any current DVD-A capable deck will work for you.  There are lots of them, ranging from cheap to not so cheap.
this Oppo we are talking about, which is a universal player (DVD-A, CD, HDCD, SACD..etc), will do exactly what you want...for $150.
and it will sound good.  In fact, i bet it will outperform your 11 year old DAC.  Its silly to think of how good it sounds for the money.

Another option...
get a new DAC that can do 24/96 (most any new one will) and a means to pass a digital signal from your computer. 
MAC digi out > DAC > stereo > smiles!

[anodyne33]

Any word on the 970 being discontinued? I checked out Oppo's site yesterday and it says that the 970 is out of stock, but there's one left on Amazon, and there's a new model at the $170 price point. I'm wondering if this is the replacement?

[Sanjay]

check ebay, I know the company was unloading a whole bunch there recently for less than normal price.  I picked up one.

[noam]

This is how they responded to my e-mail:
 
Noam,

We have heard conflicting reports about the audio support through optical and coaxial. Our manufacturer partners and reviewers have said that we dither to 16-bit, while end users and beta testers claim to receive 24-bit through optical and coaxial. Our official statement is 16-bit.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
453 Ravendale Dr, Suite D Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119



-----Original Message-----
From: Noam  [mailto:noam@___.com]
Sent: Fri 9/21/2007 12:45 PM
To: OPPO Service
Subject: 96/24 audio output through digital coaxial/optical

Hi,

I have a collection of 96Hz/24bit private recordings,
burned into DVD-A's, and I use an external D/A
convertor (Benchmark DAC1.) Do you make a DVD player
that outputs 96Hz/24bit through the digital
coaxial/optical outputs without truncating or
redithering the signal? John Atkinson from Stereophile
magazine measured the DV-970HD's S/PDIF jacks and
found out that even though they output 96kHz and 192
kHz, they dithered 24-bit audio to 16-bit. Do you make
a model that does not do that?

thanks, Noam

check ebay, I know the company was unloading a whole bunch there recently for less than normal price.  I picked up one.

[Colin Liston]

This is how they responded to my e-mail:
 
Noam,

We have heard conflicting reports about the audio support through optical and coaxial. Our manufacturer partners and reviewers have said that we dither to 16-bit, while end users and beta testers claim to receive 24-bit through optical and coaxial. Our official statement is 16-bit.

How could they not know? 

[cheshirecat]

This is how they responded to my e-mail:
 
Noam,

We have heard conflicting reports about the audio support through optical and coaxial. Our manufacturer partners and reviewers have said that we dither to 16-bit, while end users and beta testers claim to receive 24-bit through optical and coaxial. Our official statement is 16-bit.

How could they not know? 

Probably just some L1 guy sitting there answering emails... you may be able to push back and get to an engineer type who would actually know the answer.

[noam]

Companies buy parts based on the manufacturers’ specs, assemble them and sell a product that they don’t know all aspects of its performance. There have been many cases of products that went under because the seller of the final product did not (and could not) know how the final product performs.

There are other aspects of DVD players that nobody was ever able to explain to me. I have 2 players connected to the same DAC1 through their S/PDIF jacks. One is an old Panasonic S55 and the other a Denon 2910. The Denon gives me much better sound from DVD-V's, but both sound the same for DVD-A’s and CD’s. How come? It’s all zeros and ones, no? (Assuming jitter is not an issue because the DAC1 resamples and corrects jitter.) Someone suggested that the explanation is that the DVD-V soundtrack is compressed, lossy, multi-channel audio data. The Panasonic and Denon probably have different types of circuits to expand/extract that data to 0s and 1s before pushing it out to the DAC. The difference in the sound probably lies there, and the fact that the Denon and Panny sounding the same when playing DVD-As and CDs makes complete sense. They're only transporting the 0s and 1s to the DAC, that's it.

The problem with that explanation is the few audio-DVD’s that I burned myself with audio-DVD creator are uncompressed and yet they sound better on the Denon. I don’t believe I will ever find out why, because Denon and Panasonic (and everyone else) buy the circuits to expand/extract that data from DVD’s from third parties and they don’t know exactly how they function. These are not questions that someone can just look up; I believe it requires real research and some serious testing.

Noam

This is how they responded to my e-mail:
 
Noam,

We have heard conflicting reports about the audio support through optical and coaxial. Our manufacturer partners and reviewers have said that we dither to 16-bit, while end users and beta testers claim to receive 24-bit through optical and coaxial. Our official statement is 16-bit.

How could they not know? 

Probably just some L1 guy sitting there answering emails... you may be able to push back and get to an engineer type who would actually know the answer.

[nickgregory]

The problem with that explanation is the few audio-DVD’s that I burned myself with audio-DVD creator are uncompressed and yet they sound better on the Denon.

that is my experience as well...the 981HD Oppo unit sounds good, but the Denon 2900 bests it to my ears...

[RebelRebel]

I have both the OPPO and the Denon and I prefer the OPPO by a large margin for "acoustic" music, but prefer the denon for my rock/secular/country etc CDs. The Mytek stereo 96 DAC trounces them both usunder by leaps and bounds, but that is to be expected I guess.


aside/by the way...(If anyone is looking for a really HQ, Top Shelf DAC. for little money...adding a Mytek is a great idea. Ive preferred it over EMM laBS, dcs, Lavry, Benchmark, and Monarch..I am surprised that more folks dont use them)

The problem with that explanation is the few audio-DVD’s that I burned myself with audio-DVD creator are uncompressed and yet they sound better on the Denon.

that is my experience as well...the 981HD Oppo unit sounds good, but the Denon 2900 bests it to my ears...

[Nick's Picks]

over the emm eh?
I'll have to trade you for my Oade mod 901 for a while.
we'll see whats what.

[thegreatgumbino]

over the emm eh?
I'll have to trade you for my Oade mod 901 for a while.
we'll see whats what.

Didn't realize Doug mod'd these.  What are the specifics?

[Nick's Picks]

dont know yet.


he does something for the output stage, and replaces the headphone jacks w/RCAs.

[thegreatgumbino]

dont know yet.


he does something for the output stage, and replaces the headphone jacks w/RCAs.

What's the point of replacing the 1/4" with RCA's?  Why not use a 1/4" > xx cable for running it as a pre?  Besides, does he really replace two stereo outputs (2 x 1/4" trs jacks) with a single set of RCA outs?  That's the only way I see him being able to do it without modifying the enclosure.  Maybe I'm just slow, but I don't get it.

[Nick's Picks]

the point ?
i dont know.  better fitting connectors.  beats me.  I'd rather have RCA output than TRS any way, for my uses.
I"m sure he isn't disabling both of the headphone jacks, that wouldn't be necessary unless he plans to  put the RCAs in there.  I want one hot TRS jack though.

the big difference is the output.  he says this simple little mod brings his 901 *very* close to his EMM labs DAC6.

Doug has never steered me wrong.  when he says "send me $100 and your gear and i'll make it sound 10x better than stock"....you can bet i'm digging up the checkbook.

[thegreatgumbino]

Doug has never steered me wrong.  when he says "send me $100 and your gear and i'll make it sound 10x better than stock"....you can bet i'm digging up the checkbook.

Don't disagree.  Just wasn't following how he was going to achieve the rca's.  Sounded to me like you lost both TRS jacks, which makes it unusable as a headphone amp.

[Nick's Picks]

I dont really know his approach to that one.  but I'll find out.
i'm sending it down for the MOD this week.