Topic: Don't Judge A Book By Its Cover (Microphones)

[Church-Audio]

I just ran these Karma's through some tests.  Despite the visible differences on each circuit board the mics are very closely matched.  The frquency anyalizer shows little differences between the two, they dance perfectly together.  The amplitud statistics show they are close too.  The capsules must be the important part becasue the parts in the body look cheap and there are even a few different components in each...

   Left   Right
Min Sample Value:   -21477   -21760
Max Sample Value:   21449   22525
Peak Amplitude:   -3.67 dB   -3.26 dB
Possibly Clipped:   0   0
DC Offset:   0    0
Minimum RMS Power:   -29.26 dB   -29.47 dB
Maximum RMS Power:   -11.64 dB   -11.28 dB
Average RMS Power:   -18.62 dB   -18.5 dB
Total RMS Power:   -18.12 dB   -17.97 dB
Actual Bit Depth:   16 Bits   16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 50 ms

How did you adjust the gain for both mics? Did you use a 1k test tone to set the levels and then run a wide band frequency response test? If not then your measurements might be off. You need to set the sensitivity of the mics so that they are exactly the same at 1k then do a wide band frequency response test. Try also using a MLS measurement so you can subtract what the room is doing to your measurements.

[Javier Cinakowski]

I wasn't that scientific, but I just wanted to get some rough results...    I tested the amplitude/sensitivity of the mics by just recording some x-mass music and running the statistics generator on the resulting waveforms.  For the frequency I recorded two tests, one of the x-mas music and one with the CEP tone generater.  I used the "out of control" preset.  Both mics gave similar results...  Thanks for the suggestions Chris, perhaps I'll give them some more proper tests soon..

Anyone see anything in the karma's that could be modified?  I like how they sound enough that I would be willing to throw some more money at them.  This is my second pair, I only bought this pair because they are on sale for dirt cheap.  The paint easily comes off the bodies and so does the Karma emblem.  I am going to sand them down and get them powder coated with some glow- in the dark paint! 

[Church-Audio]

I wasn't that scientific, but I just wanted to get some rough results...    I tested the amplitude/sensitivity of the mics by just recording some x-mass music and running the statistics generator on the resulting waveforms.  For the frequency I recorded two tests, one of the x-mas music and one with the CEP tone generater.  I used the "out of control" preset.  Both mics gave similar results...  Thanks for the suggestions Chris, perhaps I'll give them some more proper tests soon..

Anyone see anything in the karma's that could be modified?  I like how they sound enough that I would be willing to throw some more money at them.  This is my second pair, I only bought this pair because they are on sale for dirt cheap.  The paint easily comes off the bodies and so does the Karma emblem.  I am going to sand them down and get them powder coated with some glow- in the dark paint! 

I was just saying that when you do a wide band frequency response test you Must match both levels of both mics exactly at a center frequency the industry standard is 1k DPA uses 250hz and or 1k. But I prefer just 1k once you match both mics up at a center frequency then you can see if there is deviation between the two really easily. If you try and match both mics at there full frequency response what you end up doing is matching the wide band frequency response this tricks you into thinking that the mics are very close when in fact they can be very far apart.

Chris

[Javier Cinakowski]

Oh, I see what your sayin.  Let me give this a try.   Thanks!

[Church-Audio]

Oh, I see what your sayin.  Let me give this a try.   Thanks!

Not a problem

Chris

[bensyverson]

so when they said I could tell them what components to use I thought there is no way I trust that I will get the quality that I expect.

Awesome I'm very curious to hear the CK-1 against the Busman!

[Roving Sign]

Have only seen these on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/CL-K1-Small-Diaphragm-Condenser-Mic-w-three-capsules_W0QQitemZ230205558589

[oleg]

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/pro_products/mc10m.shtml
this is probably the same shit under fostex name . one of the worst i ever cjecked lately
i dont think it is relative to peluso or sontronics as it back electret elements

[bensyverson]

Yeah, the TOM is electret too:
http://tom-audio.com/index.php?id=kondensatormikrofon

And not to belabor the point, but the following mics also share bodies with the Avant/Busman/CAD/microphonedeals models:
MXL 604 http://www.mxlmics.com/condenser_mic/mxl604/mxl604.htm
Cascade M39 http://www.cascademicrophones.com/cascade_M39.html

Neither includes the other caps, but they're obviously compatible.


And while we're at it, here's a Peluso-alike:

http://www.aamicrophones.com/fet_mics/cm_54.htm


The Peluso has a good rep, but let's see what it looks like inside.

[oleg]

the mxl looks like 747 factory
and the 54 is the feilo old desighn  as peluso and these which i have
its not sounds like schoeps  but its quit good for what it worth
i use my for gun shots and loud sfx where the self noise less important , but also ran it for commercials and other stuff just for fun
the feilo are quit good for low budget recordings

[bgalizio]

The Peluso has a good rep, but let's see what it looks like inside.

As far as they go, this is from Nick's review of the CEMC6:

The body of the preamp assembly is from a chinese mic. The elements are mylar from Germany. The others parts and pieces come from all around. John refereed to these as truly a "world mic", with all the parts being the cream of the crop from various venders around the globe. All of these parts are then assembled by hand at Peluso Labs.

[bensyverson]

I'm sure the Peluso is great...

I'd still like to see the PCB. 

Edit: is the Peluso transformerless?

[Chuck]

Old thread, I know...

Can someone confirm that all these microphones have the same body, basic wiring (old Scheops circuit) and capsules?

Apex 180/185
Avantone CK-1
Busman BSC1
CAD GXL1200
Marshall MXL 603
Nady CM-90

Also, are the capsules exchangeable between the brands?


Edit to add:
Cascade M39

[rastasean]

good update.

I'm particularly interested Avantone ck-1 and busman bsc1 mics so hopefully we can get some answers.

[Chuck]

We have pictures of the internals on some of them:
Top to bottom:

Apex 180
Avantone CK-1
CAD GXL1200
Marshall MXL 603s