Topic: Recording outdoor festivals

[skinnypaul]

I have a couple of festivals coming up, one weekend and a one-dayer. Both have bands on the bill that I'd really like to tape but I also see ten hours of music a day as a great opportunity to practise some fieldcraft (and I *really* need the practise!)

I'll be using CSBs -> DR-07. Indoors I would normally try and either get right next to a stack (preferred) or else dead centre and reasonably up front. What should I be doing outdoors? Or in a tent?

I'm guessing no walls is good but wind and rain potentially bad... time to find some mini-windguards 

[stevetoney]

Opinions vary about location...people either like DFC which is an equilateral triangle between you and both speaker stacks or FOB which is right in front of the soundboard.  The concept of the first is the same as if you sitting in your living room and wanting to get the best stereo effect possible, the concept of the second is that the sound is better mixed at that location because the soundguy is tweeking the sound to his taste.  I don't know anyone that stack tapes outdoor festivals.

As far as screens go, normal foam screens usually aren't enough for anything more than a wispy breeze.  If the wind kicks up, you need something beefier.  Get a pair of Tim's dead muppets ($20 in the retail section) and put those over the foam screens and you should be good.  Some people improvise and put socks or something with fur over the foam, but unless the foam is really thick it tends not to be enough to cut the wind on its own if the weather kicks up or if there's a gusty breeze.

[rhinowing]

I would go fob, especially if there are going to be any stereo effects

[TimeBandit]

If the venue is very affected by wind you should prefer front of speakers (shortest way from speaker to mic, no "washing away / draining effects" due to wind), with battery box / Preamp powered mics that should be no problem.

even check the venue bigger festivals have the stacks at the stage and secondary stacks for the rows faw behind the stage. Maybe do a "soundchek" with your equipment from which stack it is better to record.

Best solution is maybe do a matrix with one taper recording FOS and one FOB for stereo effects and mixing them in post.

[achalsey]

What festivals are you planning on going to?  Might help people answer venue-wise and might be some other tapers going you could talk to first hand.

[skinnypaul]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'd forgotten how much the sound can get blown around at larger festivals - good point.

I've also invested in a waterproof zip-lock bag to keep the recorder safe. If it seems decent I'll pick up a couple more for stashing mics etc.

Thanks also for the suggestion of the Dead Muppets. I didn't realise these could be fitted to small mics like CSBs so that's good to know. Daft question: how can I replace the foam windshields that the CSBs originally shipped with?

[skinnypaul]

I guess I also need to think about power and storage. I'll grab another set of Econoloops and perhaps another flash card.

[SmokinJoe]

You probably want something like a homemade T-bar you can clip the CSB's on.  With Omni's, you want a bit of separation.  At least a foot, probably 2'.  It could be a wooden stick, or a coat hanger, or whatever you want.  Many festivals have an Official (or unofficial) taper's section next to the SBD.  If it exists, I generally use it.  if not, than go where you want.  If you block the sightlines of the sound or lights guy, they will yell at you, but you probably won't be that high.

Omnis have the benefit of not being as sensitive to wind as cards, but you still need windscreens.  You can probably find something here... http://www.olsenaudio.com/general.html   Olsen makes them, but doesn't sell direct.  Once you find the right model number, then you go find a seller.  Your CSB's are 1/4" in dia, so that's your inside dimension.  Find the fatest OD you can.  And don't be surprised if you need something over that, like dead rats, or heavy socks.

What do you do if it rains?  You need an umbrella.  Probably the easiest thing to do is abort the split omni bar, and go clip to some other taper's t-bar under his umbrella.

If you are running from you own stand, you need to stake it down with tent pegs so the wind doesn't blow it over.  Or weight it down with rocks, or something.

[Myco]

If you're running CSB's you'll probably want to try and get up close, unless you have hyper capsules on them.
CSB cards from the section wouldn't be worth the battery power to make the recording IMHO.

[yates7592]

If you're at an outdoor festival, apart from wind, the biggest issue will probably be drunks / screamers / talkers - therefore try to get close up to the stacks, especially if you have omni's.........

[TimeBandit]

that´s also pro FOS it´s it should be loud enough to get over chattering, noises in songs and use cards for taping FOS they aren´t taking much noise besides of you onto the record. between the songs you can mix chatter down in postpro via normalization or simple volume envelope curve.

For powering issue: choose a recorder with long battery life and which can run with eneloops or similar ... battery boxes or preamp can last around 300 hours with one 9V block so that´s no problem.

[stevetoney]

I really have to disagree with some of the suggestions coming out of this thread...respectfully provided and IMHO. 

The suggestion to get close to the stacks to avoid talkers isn't optimal.  Minimizing talkers is better solved by putting your mics up on a stand and raising them up above the talkers.  If you're close to a stack and someone is at your shoulder talking, it's still going to come through clearly on your recording. 

While I agree that in wind you can cut down on wind phasing by getting closer, but I'm not sure I'd want to stack record as a solution to a concern about possible wind phasing issue, which only happens on very few of my recordings.  Better to stake your stand down really well so that it doesn't sway...which doesn't totally solve the problem but at least eliminates the mic stand variable.  I also think this is better solved moving closer but closer to the center of the stage, not to one of the sides.  I mean, when you go to a festival, how many mic stands do you see in front of the stacks?  Not sure how many fests you've been to, but the answer is essentially none. 

Finally, what happens if the FOH engineer mixes the stacks in stereo and pans instruments?  So you're in front of one stack and you may get no guitar because it's coming out of the other side.  That said, at most festivals the mix doesn't pan the instruments totally L and R...IOW you still hear guitar out of both sides, but maybe it's panned 70/30 or 60/40 so that there is some stereo effect coming out of the PA.  I have been to lots and lots of shows though where instruments are panned completely while vocals are centered.

Last year at one festival I went to, the left stack kept cutting out all through the Franti show.  My recording didn't sound too bad though since I was FOB...if I was in front of the left stack, I'd have had nothing.

[CTjazzfanatic]

I have recorded jazz at a park twice in the past week and got different results each time. Both times I recorded stealth with Church Audio CA-14 (omnis) seated in front near the stage. The first time there was a monitor on stage pointed right at me and the sound came out pretty good. Yesterday I recorded three sets at the same park, but different sound company this time. The on-stage stack was to my right and another monitor was slightly to my right. The volume level of the PA system seemed much louder and through the stack to my right the acoustic bass and piano were amplified while the other instruments were picked up by my mics from the stage and the sound of the piano was downright bad coming through the stacks. I was not too pleased with the results this time. I have recordings where the bass is much louder than everything else and the horns are often distant.

I will be back in the park tonight. Since it is the same series as the show i caught last week, the sound system will be the same. But, is the suggestion that I instead move back away from the stage instead of sitting right up front? In that case would it be better to use my cards?

[acidjack]

Steve, I don't disagree with anything you said in general, but is it clear the OP is open taping here?  Sorry if I missed that.  If the OP is not open taping and is mounting mics on their person, then I tend to think a stack tape is the only way to go, because you cannot minimize talkers with height.  I do not disagree with the limitations of doing so that you identified, though.

Further, CSBs, being omnis, are at least going to be less affected by wind.  I'd still run screens, but I am not sure the suggestion of muppets is really necessary IF they are mounted low on your person.  If on a stand, then yes, the heaviest/best screen you can get, absolutely. 

Also, FWIW, it's a festival, so you might as well try a few different methods with different bands and see what works for you.

I really have to disagree with some of the suggestions coming out of this thread...respectfully provided and IMHO. 

The suggestion to get close to the stacks to avoid talkers isn't optimal.  Minimizing talkers is better solved by putting your mics up on a stand and raising them up above the talkers.  If you're close to a stack and someone is at your shoulder talking, it's still going to come through clearly on your recording. 

While I agree that in wind you can cut down on wind phasing by getting closer, but I'm not sure I'd want to stack record as a solution to a concern about possible wind phasing issue, which only happens on very few of my recordings.  Better to stake your stand down really well so that it doesn't sway...which doesn't totally solve the problem but at least eliminates the mic stand variable.  I also think this is better solved moving closer but closer to the center of the stage, not to one of the sides.  I mean, when you go to a festival, how many mic stands do you see in front of the stacks?  Not sure how many fests you've been to, but the answer is essentially none. 

Finally, what happens if the FOH engineer mixes the stacks in stereo and pans instruments?  So you're in front of one stack and you may get no guitar because it's coming out of the other side.  That said, at most festivals the mix doesn't pan the instruments totally L and R...IOW you still hear guitar out of both sides, but maybe it's panned 70/30 or 60/40 so that there is some stereo effect coming out of the PA.  I have been to lots and lots of shows though where instruments are panned completely while vocals are centered.

Last year at one festival I went to, the left stack kept cutting out all through the Franti show.  My recording didn't sound too bad though since I was FOB...if I was in front of the left stack, I'd have had nothing.

[su6oxone]

I'm guessing no walls is good but wind and rain potentially bad... time to find some mini-windguards 

Yeah, outdoor taping is the best!  Some of my best recordings have been from outdoor shows, and the lack of sound reflection makes it sound much better and the crowd noise is diminished as a result as well.  Rain is bad, but just watch the forecast and if there's a significant chance of rain, then decide if you want to risk it or not.  It's easier if you're not using a stand because you can just use an umbrella or something and you can always run for cover if need be.  Definitely need good windscreens though, although heavy duty screens like the A81WS will be needed in really windy conditions.