Topic: taping position in a bad sounding club?

[live2cd]

I realize this seems like an easy question and the logical answer is usually 'close to the stacks', but i was wondering if anyone else has any other opinions? Im taping a favorite band of mine (Scott Lucas & The Married Men -- ie: the guy from Local H) and there is only ONE show near me and that is here in Columbus, Ohio where I live.

I taped the band at this same club back in 2010:
http://archive.org/details/slmm2010-02-19.live2cd.flac16

the sound in there was completely poor. I was 8 ft back from the right stack and THATS how it turned out! some might say its listenable, but I want better.

Over the past few days Ive been thinking about taping from the stage off the bands monitors and so on. I know the guys pretty well and I know they would let me do whatever I want (soundboard access excluded) and the crowd will not be very big at all. Has anyone ever tried anything unorthodox for achieving a good sounding tape from a boomy acoustic-challenged club like The Summit? Id be open to ANY suggestions as this is the only time Im catching the band on this current run of dates. If i was seeing multiple shows I would just do a stack tape and hope I get better results in another city.

I currently have DPA HEB 4060 omnis and CA-14 cards to choose from for the recording.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

How many recorders do you have? If you have 2 rigs or a 4+ channel recorder, I'd run the omni's on stage, and the cards either in the sweet spot or on the stacks (sweet spot prefered unless your going to get a lot of chatter).

[achalsey]

Could they be talked rationally into giving you a board patch?  I'd say run a pair of mics onstage and mix with a board feed.  I'm personally more confortable with cards so I'd just say the -14s onstage in one of the normal patterns based on what works best with the amps/drums layout.  But the DPAs are some pretty nice omnis so they might well be better suited for the job.

If no patch, then I'd agree with the above.  I've made some nice mixes with that exact same technique.

[F.O.Bean]

Hypers/PAS

[achalsey]

Hypers/PAS

He's got omnis and cards.  Its all right there in the text.   

[F.O.Bean]

Hypers/PAS

He's got omnis and cards.  Its all right there in the text.   

Damnit, my bad I would go w/ cards/PAS then

[acidjack]

I don't think that recording is all that bad (on computer speakers at least) but I can see what you mean (also the jackasses talking don't help).  The vocals seem kind of buried and the whole thing is kind of muddy.

I'd try your CA-14 cards FOB/DFC, as close to the front as you think you can get without losing the vocals.

Or as noted, if you have the option of truly running open, I'd try and get an SBD patch and run the CA-14s from back by the board.  The SBD should help give you clearer vocals and make it cleaner generally.

[live2cd]

No soundboard access at all. Im not going to even bother asking. Scott is pretty strict when it comes to that. He hates having his vocals sound horrible over the instruments and its not even worth explaining what a matrix is to him...  it will get me nowhere.

I only have ONE deck.. my Edirol.

I have 2 pairs of microphones but they are BOTH rigged to my 9200 pre-amp, so I cannot run 2 rigs at once until I get another preamp. I was considering getting the CA UGLY for my 4060's, but am holding off right now as I dont have an extra $170 + shipping lying around.

:/

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I found when I had the 4060's that if the venue didn't sound very good...the DPA's really brought that out (the benefit was when it sounded good...the DPA's shined).

If you can only run one set of mics, I'd run a little in front of the sweet spot so you can get some of the sound off the stage.

If the band doesn't have a lot of vocals get closer. The downside to running closer is you lose some of the vocals from the PA. The plus side is you gain more from the stage, and don't get some of the negative effects of s shitty sounding PA.

[live2cd]

^^^ that is probably what i will try. altho i hate to have low vocals, the instrumentation should really shine through.

[Walstib62]

If it's a horrible sounding room, there is no sweet spot. Only the least sour spot. Try for that spot at least with the cards.

[live2cd]

meh..

http://archive.org/details/slmm2012-06-17.live2cd.flac16

awesome bananarama cover, tho.

[acidjack]

meh..

http://archive.org/details/slmm2012-06-17.live2cd.flac16

awesome bananarama cover, tho.

I think it's pretty decent.  It's more "upfront" than your 4061 pull and the vocals are higher, so it would seem to have achieved your main goal.

Some rooms just suck, though, no doubt about that.  Like this one: http://archive.org/details/futurebirds2011-02-26.unionpool_acidjack  Even with an SBD it's still pretty mediocre.  The recording spot is way up on a balcony where the SBD is, and that balcony is right over the bar... and the acoustics are crap...