Topic: Someone settle this: What exactly is FOB.

[bconnolly]

I know it stands for "Front of Board" (FOH is "Front of House")... I got that.

But I hear the term FOB used in so many different ways on this board that I'm convinced that some tapers either a) don't know what it means or b) have a loose definition of the acronym.

What exactly is FOB?

[Ed.]

if you ask me, its anything in front of the sound board.  its not a very descript term, if you wanted to get technical, you could say your distance to the stage and whatnot...but when i think of it, or use it, it usually means i'm a few feet to several feet in front of the board.  depends where i'm taping too.  if its a bar, i'm always fob for the most part.

[Brian Skalinder]

What exactly is FOB?

FOB is a meaningless* distinction that some tapers put on their sources so that the masses of clueless idiots over at eTree think it's a great recording without even listening to it. 

* Meaningless for multiple reasons (right up there with the way many tapers abuse DFC):

• FOB != better sound, necessarily
• FOB doesn't indicate the tapers actual position in the venue - FOB could be 6" in front of the board, it could be at stage lip, it could be underneath the balcony on the far left hand side of the venue, etc.
• In many smaller venues (like the ones I'm usually in), the entire venue is FOB - so indicating the recording was made FOB isn't saying much

[bconnolly]

Thanks for the replies.

I really didn't want to make this thread and out myself as somewhat of a new taper... but I just wanted to check my sanity and make sure I wasn't having reading comprehension issues.

The real catalyst was that I taped a show on Saturday and my stand was literally butted up against the soundboard.  I couldn't have been any closer to it.  I thought that meant I was FOB.

[Brian Skalinder]

The real catalyst was that I taped a show on Saturday and my stand was literally butted up against the soundboard.  I couldn't have been any closer to it.  I thought that meant I was FOB.

FWIW, I usually reference my location relative to the stage or the board (or sometimes both).  There's a template info file in the Archive forum you're free to cannibalize if you wish.  Some think the notes I include are overkill, but I make notes about my location, height, etc. for my own reference, not for others.

[nickgregory]

FOB is misused about as much as DFC

[Ed.]

I personally like Skalinder's "overkill" in his info files...I've started to follow suit.

[bconnolly]

I personally like Skalinder's "overkill" in his info files...I've started to follow suit.

I think it's nice to havve all of that info as well but it seems rather verbose.  My template looks like this:

Code: [Select]

Band
Venue
City, State
YYYY-MM-DD

Taper: Brian Connolly (brian@iamserio.us & http://trades.iamserio.us)
Location: <wherever>, mic config <height>
Source: Mics > Pre > Recorder
Lineage: Recorder > PC > WAV > CDWave > FLAC

Setlist:
01. Bunny Fluffers
02. Running Butters
03. Truffle Shuffles
04. Yummy Nutters

Notes:
blah de blah

This format jives well with foo_traders_friend (easy tagging id3 with Foobar2000) and if I keep all of my text files this way, it's easier to integrate it into a website with a database that I've yet to create in PHP and SQL.

[Nick Graham]

Dude, I bet that Truffle Shuffles>Yummy Nutters jam was sick.

Heady brah...

[Jhurlbs81]

 

[bconnolly]

Dude, I bet that Truffle Shuffles>Yummy Nutters jam was sick.

Heady brah...

I had trouble tracking it... I couldn't even tell when the Shuffle stopped and when the Nutters began.  I think I saw colors.

[sml42]

Surely you mean you heard the colors... brah!

[greenone]

The real catalyst was that I taped a show on Saturday and my stand was literally butted up against the soundboard.  I couldn't have been any closer to it.  I thought that meant I was FOB.

I usually put that as "at soundboard".

Of course, you could list it as BFOB (barely front of board), which then allows for FFOB (far front of board), RFOB (really front of board), WFOB (way front of board), RFFOB (really fucking front of board), and the ever-elusive SFFFOBYABETBC (So Fucking Far Front Of Board You're Actually Backstage Eating The Band's Catering).

[bhtoque]

The real catalyst was that I taped a show on Saturday and my stand was literally butted up against the soundboard.  I couldn't have been any closer to it.  I thought that meant I was FOB.

I usually put that as "at soundboard".

Of course, you could list it as BFOB (barely front of board), which then allows for FFOB (far front of board), RFOB (really front of board), WFOB (way front of board), RFFOB (really fucking front of board), and the ever-elusive SFFFOBYABETBC (So Fucking Far Front Of Board You're Actually Backstage Eating The Band's Catering).

+T Dave

I guess I could have used SFFFOBYABETBC for my tapes at the original HOB. But then the green room was upstairs, behind the sbd, so I was really FOB&BETBC 

If I'm within a few feet of the sbd, I'll mark the show as @ Sbd too.
If I'm closer to the stage than anything else, it's FOB, but I include distance. ie shows at the Paradise are fob 6' from stage, shows at the Stone Church are fob 12' from stage. If I'm DFC, then the txt file includes it, otherwise it's feet LOC or ROC.

JAson

[bconnolly]

This is an interesting revelation.  I always thought "FOB" meant you were in front of the board... like right there.  I now understand it loosely means "anywhere in front of the board as long as you're not behind it."

[cleantone]

just in case anyone gives a squirt...

I personally dont really describe distance and height from anything. I do use either FOB, onstage, ceiling, or balcony. I don't normally tape from other places but if I did I might use FOH or stage lip maybe. So when I note FOB it just means (to me) that it was not onstage, clamped from the ceiling, off the balcony, or something like that. It is a big loose term (IMO). I don't think you have to be within a couple feet of the console to use the term. It's not a big deal. I don't think the average listener/leecher pays much attention to that anyway.

[JasonR]

Some interesting perspectives on this one.  Personally, if I hear "FOB" without further description, I assume it's well forward of the board.  If it's placed a foot in front, there's no difference really in the sound FOB or ROB (or, more correctly, roB! of course).  I'd just describe that as "at the SBD location" or something along those lines.

- Jason

[macroint]

For the longest time I thought FOB meant "Friend of Betty"....

[kskreider]

Sometimes I try to be detailed about where I was when I taped it, but mostly because once I am old and foggy I want the record to be clear. 

Lately I go to the technical section of the venue website where they have jpegs of the venue layout.  I copy the image and put a red dot on the image where I was sitting.  I include those on the archive disc with the recording and the text file. If you can't explain it a picture tells 1000 words.

To me FOB is taping in front of the board, particulary of importance to note for bands where you are not supposed to tape from those locations.  If there is no board you are automagically disqualified if you use the term.  Of course, unless less you totally give up and yell "Alle, alle auch sind frei!"

[mmmatt]

I rarely say fob.  I will usually say "just in front of sbd" or "just behind"  or "at foh" if I am *truly* fob, which I consider to be on the floor near the sweetspot, I will say "~30' from stage in the sweetspot fob".  I agree that fob is painfully overused.  I do try to state my stand height though.

Matt

[bhtoque]

stagelip  

(been there, done that,... but, just like fob,... how far out were you?)

That's the thing. FOB can be variable, but Lip and on stage are not. If you are touching the stage, but not on it, then it's stage lip. If the mics were 6" back from the edge of the stage then you are fob 6" from stage (but that's really splitting hairs, and I doubt you could hear the difference those 6" would make) 

JAson

[cleantone]

stagelip Huh?

(been there, done that,... but, just like fob,... how far out were you?)

For me that would mean very close to the stage but not on it. It would have to be something like 95% to the stage or more. I don't normally do that anyway. Can't think of one tape I would have made calling it stage lip. I don't make much effort describing where I was recording from. A summery of what I said before would be that I use FOB if I was not onstage or clamped to the cieling. I don't record many ampitheater shows and never stadium. If I'm in a large theater I'm usually FOB and onstage and I label the different sources as such. Some of us get to anal about source label, some of us not anal enough. (that's what she said)

[mikeincharleston]

yeah, places like the orange peel are all FOB recordings, but you are still in the back of the room

[dhora]

SFFFOBYABETBC (So Fucking Far Front Of Board You're Actually Backstage Eating The Band's Catering).

ROFLMAO that's awesome! That just made my day. +T
Here's an example of my latest text files: edited to trim setlist down

Relapse
2005-06-04
The Britannia Arms
Cupertino, CA

Taper:      Dave Hora (dave@horaenterprises.com)
Location:   Stand ~7'High > ORTF > Left side of room under the TV ~25' from stage
Source:    SP-CMC-2 (AT831) > SP-SPSB-1 (Roll Off at 107Hz) > JB3 (+0db)
Conversion:    JB3 > USB > Cool Edit Pro 2.0 (Normalized to 0db) > CD Wave > FLAC frontend > flac16

01.   banter: "The Posessed Red Mustang"   02:04.58
02.   Fifteen Minutes            03:59.07
03.   Pin Up               04:38.04

FLAC Fingerprint:
relapse2005-06-04t01.flac:a1e0db509e3cd979e3415d578da48463
relapse2005-06-04t02.flac:14cb95f66a3b37b7a9a574bb9a73fa46
relapse2005-06-04t03.flac:0c19c9c6437eb6430862836c4b483afd

md5 Checksum:
5798948949e627c264f92d32365fd492 *relapse2005-06-04t01.flac
66c1d589c818516a283e1483634d0716 *relapse2005-06-04t02.flac
ac0df5379fd64924329644269b9d3d0a *relapse2005-06-04t03.flac

[cleantone]

Moke,

Exactly. Were you running both rigs on that classical show? Who was the other one from? What was the neumann being used for?

[cleantone]

Nice!

[MattD]

Skalinder and I recorded a show in a church FJC (facing JC).

[cleantone]

Thats that new stereo ribbon mic right? How did that sound?

[bconnolly]

Skalinder and I recorded a show in a church FJC (facing JC).

FJC DFC

Priest: GTFO blasphemer.

[cleantone]

Like a hot knife through warm butter. like liquid.
I don't know the product line well enough to really say if its new or not. This one had a broken band in the shock mount, and it had a mean ghetto lean /

The Royer is the mic I was asking about. The MG (that looks like a neumann at a glance) seems to have a broken shock mount. As soon as I took a second look I noticed it was thinner that a neumann ldc. I'd love to get one of those Royer ribbon mics, stereo or not. Hell I'd love the MG or the B&K's too for that matter. Pretty sweet. Was the MG for throat singing? (to further derail the thread)

[cleantone]

That place looks awesome.

[chucky]

It's a recording that's made so in front, in the crunch that you here the taper saying.

                                "Fuck Off Biatch"

[Cooker]

FOB in the logistics industry means Freight On Board
FOB in the Asian community means Fresh Off the Boat
FOB in the alcoholic community means Friend Of Bill   

[kgreener]

not to dredge up an old thread, but regarding this subject i've always wanted to ask...when FOB taping is allowed, don't mic stands get in the sightlines of the sound guy, and does it ever bother them?  at first i thought well, all they need to do is hear the music, right?  but what if the band is giving visual cues to the sound man and they need to see each other?  of course if you're doing it stealth with a lo-pro stand that wouldn't matter.  i'm talking about open taping that allows FOB.

okay, just something i had to ask    thanks

[Brian Skalinder]

not to dredge up an old thread, but regarding this subject i've always wanted to ask...when FOB taping is allowed, don't mic stands get in the sightlines of the sound guy, and does it ever bother them?

Some sound engineers don't mind the stands at all, some want a completely clear, unobstructed line of sight.  IME, just depends on the engineer.

[terrapinj]

i like to ask the soundguy if it I am clearly gonna be in his sightline - most will be cool with it or request you keep it below a certain height, but there are some that don't want you in their view at all. much easier to ask before setting up than being asked to move after you are all set up.

[kgreener]

thanks guys, this helps me understand this FOB stuff more, +T

btw Brian your text files rock, the more info the better IMO, it really helps me understand the scenario and where you're located, i wish more people would be this detailed.

[mmmatt]

i like to ask the soundguy if it I am clearly gonna be in his sightline - most will be cool with it or request you keep it below a certain height, but there are some that don't want you in their view at all. much easier to ask before setting up than being asked to move after you are all set up.

Just asking will usualy get you the OK to go anywhere you want (in smaller venues anyway)... respect thing ya know!
   Actually... Kgreener.  I thought you were kidding!  I thought I remembered you being an FOH engineer?  BTW, what txt files are you talking about?  And why do they call front of house front of house?  Don't they usualy sell you tickets at the front of the house?  Or is that like a stage left/right thing?

Matt

[grider]

Skalinder and I recorded a show in a church FJC (facing JC).

or how about FOP (front of pulpit) 

[kgreener]

i like to ask the soundguy if it I am clearly gonna be in his sightline - most will be cool with it or request you keep it below a certain height, but there are some that don't want you in their view at all. much easier to ask before setting up than being asked to move after you are all set up.

Just asking will usualy get you the OK to go anywhere you want (in smaller venues anyway)... respect thing ya know!
   Actually... Kgreener.  I thought you were kidding!  I thought I remembered you being an FOH engineer?  BTW, what txt files are you talking about?  And why do they call front of house front of house?  Don't they usualy sell you tickets at the front of the house?  Or is that like a stage left/right thing?
Matt

Hey Matt, I wish I was a FOH engineer!  in my dreams maybe, but not at this point    sorry if my question sounded silly but i really have wondered about the FOB thingy.

regarding the txt file, it's the thorough description i was talking about...for example, a txt file from a recent Brian recording...i love this:

NOTES

Taper        : Brian Skalinder / bskalinder@yahoo.com
Location     : Center, 30' back, ~7' stand
Mic Config   : Blumlein (Figure-8, 0cm, 90º)
Source       : AKG C414B-XLS (figure-8) > Edirol R-4
Record Format: 24-bit, 48 kHz
Conversion   : Edirol R-4 > USB > PC
Edit         : Adobe Audition 1.5 (resample, fades)
Dither       : MegaBitMax, Normal, Medium Noise Shaping
Final Format : 16-bit, 44.1 kHz
Track        : CD-Wave

gba2006-04-15-c414-r4.flac16

[macdaddy]

how does dfc get abused..?

you are either directly front and center, or you aren't...

fob, front of board
dfc, dead f'n center

thats the way I learned it.

exactly.

but how do you abuse that - you are either there, or you aren't...

[mmmatt]

i like to ask the soundguy if it I am clearly gonna be in his sightline - most will be cool with it or request you keep it below a certain height, but there are some that don't want you in their view at all. much easier to ask before setting up than being asked to move after you are all set up.

Just asking will usualy get you the OK to go anywhere you want (in smaller venues anyway)... respect thing ya know!
   Actually... Kgreener.  I thought you were kidding!  I thought I remembered you being an FOH engineer?  BTW, what txt files are you talking about?  And why do they call front of house front of house?  Don't they usualy sell you tickets at the front of the house?  Or is that like a stage left/right thing?
Matt

Hey Matt, I wish I was a FOH engineer!  in my dreams maybe, but not at this point    sorry if my question sounded silly but i really have wondered about the FOB thingy.

regarding the txt file, it's the thorough description i was talking about...for example, a txt file from a recent Brian recording...i love this:

NOTES

Taper        : Brian Skalinder / bskalinder@yahoo.com
Location     : Center, 30' back, ~7' stand
Mic Config   : Blumlein (Figure-8, 0cm, 90º)
Source       : AKG C414B-XLS (figure-8) > Edirol R-4
Record Format: 24-bit, 48 kHz
Conversion   : Edirol R-4 > USB > PC
Edit         : Adobe Audition 1.5 (resample, fades)
Dither       : MegaBitMax, Normal, Medium Noise Shaping
Final Format : 16-bit, 44.1 kHz
Track        : CD-Wave

gba2006-04-15-c414-r4.flac16

Yup! ...that's why we like the guy,   

Matt

[Brian Skalinder]

how does dfc get abused..?

you are either directly front and center, or you aren't...

It gets abused all the time, the same way anything of this sort gets abused:  people aren't truthful, or more likely simply have different definitions of this "standard".  And really, how descriptive if DFC/FOB?  Not very, IMO.  In many venues, FOB could mean anything from stage-lip to 100' back.  In others, the soundboard is off to the side, and still others at the absolute rear of the venue.  I don't think most people list DFC/FOB incorrectly because they intend to lie (though I suspect some small percentage of people list DFC/FOB because they want people to want their recordings), but because some people are looser with standards than others.  For example, some people will list their mics as set up ORTF, even if their mics aren't set up 17cm at 110º...but say, 15cm at 100º instead.  I can't tell you how many times I've seen people reference DFC/FOB even though I've seen their actual position as:

• 6' left of center, -at- the board
• 4' right of center, and by the way the -entire venue- is FOB so it's a meaningless definition at that point
• DFC, but some undetermined distance in front of the board that is 100+' back (not very useful, is it)

It's silly, I know, but I believe it happens -all- the time.  The real reason I make careful notes in my info file is for myself.  I want a reference for the next time I go to the venue.  I'm glad other people like the detail, and I hope they find it useful;  I sure do.

As for the desire to be cryptic, I fully understand it.  But that's not usually the case when people misrepresent DFC/FOB, IME (prety good, eh...three TLA's in a row!).

[kennedy]

NERDS!

[Nick's Picks]

for me, I only write "fob" on my sources if:

1.  I am actualy way in front of the sound guy, not just in front of the board, but some actual distance between him and me.

2. if their is an OTS (official tapers section, which took me forever to figure out), and i'm not in it because I think it sucks for a taping location.

[nickgregory]

how does dfc get abused..?

you are either directly front and center, or you aren't...

It gets abused all the time, the same way anything of this sort gets abused:  people aren't truthful, or more likely simply have different definitions of this "standard".  And really, how descriptive if DFC/FOB?  Not very, IMO.  In many venues, FOB could mean anything from stage-lip to 100' back.  In others, the soundboard is off to the side, and still others at the absolute rear of the venue.  I don't think most people list DFC/FOB incorrectly because they intend to lie (though I suspect some small percentage of people list DFC/FOB because they want people to want their recordings), but because some people are looser with standards than others.  For example, some people will list their mics as set up ORTF, even if their mics aren't set up 17cm at 110º...but say, 15cm at 100º instead.  I can't tell you how many times I've seen people reference DFC/FOB even though I've seen their actual position as:

• 6' left of center, -at- the board
• 4' right of center, and by the way the -entire venue- is FOB so it's a meaningless definition at that point
• DFC, but some undetermined distance in front of the board that is 100+' back (not very useful, is it)

It's silly, I know, but I believe it happens -all- the time.  The real reason I make careful notes in my info file is for myself.  I want a reference for the next time I go to the venue.  I'm glad other people like the detail, and I hope they find it useful;  I sure do.

As for the desire to be cryptic, I fully understand it.  But that's not usually the case when people misrepresent DFC/FOB, IME (prety good, eh...three TLA's in a row!).

Brian hit it...I have seen a ton of sources that are labeled as DFC, since they are in the center section of the arena, even though, they are 20 ft off of center...

[kgreener]

The real reason I make careful notes in my info file is for myself.  I want a reference for the next time I go to the venue.  I'm glad other people like the detail, and I hope they find it useful;  I sure do.

one of the main reasons i like descriptive text files from others is it's helpful to me when evaluting equipment for a possible purchase (mics, pre's, a/d's, etc) even if i don't know the venue.  knowing whether a person is 10 feet or a 50 feet away makes a big difference.

[Sparge Master]

Only time I use fob or dfc is when i am FOBDFC meaning the sweetspot in my mind. Ohh I also named one of my porters DFC Porter because it was so fucking good and besides that I dont use them