Topic: 24-bit on the JB3

[BJ]

There is a link to become a developer for creative(on left side of page linked above)....this is an independent devloper...you may be able to sign up using that link and get the firmware from creative for the jb3.  I honestly think that once the firmware is obtained......the changes could be made. 

[Bdifr78]

Maybe we should let them know the magnitude of the taper market

The "taper market" is downright miniscule compared to their target consumer base and will never drive any company's product decisions.  We got lucky with the JB3, nothing more.  All the gear we use is targeted towards other, broader markets - it just happens to suit our purposes.

I do understand that in the scope of their target market we are relatively small, but it wouldn't cost them much to add those features and it would have them sell a few thousand more units of such an item.  Being that I work for an electronics manufacturer I know my company would make changes to a product that didn't cost them much if it ended up satisfying another market completely and gained customer loyalty even if the market wasn't huge.  That opens the door to new products in the future and sometimes you take those risks to open up those doors.  Honestly, I know we would never influence them to do this, but anything creative can do to sell a few more units should be done.  Considering the market share that apple has in portable audio, they need to stretch thier market if they want to stay in that game. 

I realize I am in my own little dream world here, but from a business stand point if the costs are as little as I think to do something like that you they really couldn't lose.  My bottom line here I guess is that if you can add a feature to a product and sell enough extra units to just break even because of that feature, than you have made an amazing decision because you have gained that many more customers who might have never purchased from your company again.  Maybe the business I am involved in operates differently, but I just think if you can expand your customer base you do it.  If someone is satisfied with an electronics purchase they are something like 75% more likely to buy from that company again.

But hell someone just needs to figure out the firmware situation and we would all be very happy!

[nickgregory]

I think you are (1) overestimating the number of units that could be sold...I am guessing more in the couple hundred...and (2) underestimating the cost of development....even if it was just a simple SW fix, which we have no idea if that is the case, and no way to really know for sure, they would have to pull designers working on other products off of those to complete this.  Add to it that when they design it, there is a support function that has to be staffed (what if it doesnt work as it should), which also would take resources off of other items.

[Bdifr78]

I think you are (1) overestimating the number of units that could be sold...I am guessing more in the couple hundred...and (2) underestimating the cost of development....even if it was just a simple SW fix, which we have no idea if that is the case, and no way to really know for sure, they would have to pull designers working on other products off of those to complete this.  Add to it that when they design it, there is a support function that has to be staffed (what if it doesnt work as it should), which also would take resources off of other items.

Well if you think it is more like a couple hundred than of course it would be a terrible idea.  But how many jb3s do you think are in use in the feild for taping?

If that is the case than from a business stand point then fuck it!  But I was thinking more like a few thousand.  And honestly I can't imagine creative sells more than 20,000 units of their latest mp3 players and a few thousand would be a nice percent of the total units sold.  I am obviously underestimating the costs too in your opinion though.  They have already used this technology in another product and it seems to be relatively reliable and once the technology is created it really doesn't cost much more to put it into another product and support it.  I think they could come damn close to breaking even, and if you can do that and put your brand name in a few thousand more households than you have made a great business decision.   Brand equity is the number 1 thing that sells electronics.  And like I stated before, if creative wants to stay in the portable audio business they are gonna need all the help they can get.

[nickgregory]

well, we can disagree on the number of JB3s in the field...there arent that many tapers out there...and hell, alot of them I know still swear by their DATs....but lets assume it is maybe 1000 units...you are right that it is a cash cow IF it works right...if they have any problems with this unit at 24 bits, which the 722/744 proved can happen even with lots of R&D dollars sunk into it...it could become a support nightmare...

and I agree on the brand equity comment, but if tapers stopped buying Nomads products, I doubt the impact would be anything more than a pin prick to them...the taper population and the associated expendable incombe, while high for some folks, is not nearly the profit motivating factor for companies as some believe

[Bdifr78]

well, we can disagree on the number of JB3s in the field...there arent that many tapers out there...and hell, alot of them I know still swear by their DATs....but lets assume it is maybe 1000 units...you are right that it is a cash cow IF it works right...if they have any problems with this unit at 24 bits, which the 722/744 proved can happen even with lots of R&D dollars sunk into it...it could become a support nightmare...

and I agree on the brand equity comment, but if tapers stopped buying Nomads products, I doubt the impact would be anything more than a pin prick to them...the taper population and the associated expendable incombe, while high for some folks, is not nearly the profit motivating factor for companies as some believe

I know   I wanted to argue it and defend my orginal comment but you are so right.  I guess if portable audio was the only thing creative did then it would be more of a reality.  Like I said earlier I am in my own little dream world on this topic.

In regards to your comments about the potential support nightmare, I guess I work for a company that is willing to take much larger risks and that is where I base most of my statements from.  My business mind frame is soley based on my experiences with my current employer.  Fortunately we are privately held and we sink millions of dollars into projects that never see the light of day, and never have to turn a quick profit.  And plenty of money into added features that benefit our customers even when they have no idea they are there and we would never market those specific features.  So my view point here is a little screwed up.

I guess one can only wish that big companies did more for the little guy.  I would love to know how many jb3 are in use in the field though. 

[wbrisette]

I know   I wanted to argue it and defend my orginal comment but you are so right.  I guess if portable audio was the only thing creative did then it would be more of a reality.  Like I said earlier I am in my own little dream world on this topic.

Creative couldn't give two sh*ts about the taping community. They have their eyes set on trying to come up with something that will knock the iPod off the top of the heap. They do have other things other than portable audio, but as Apple has shown, portable audio can be very profitable when done right.

At this point I think the best you can do is hope that somebody else who already has the firmware and knowledge is willing to try it out. But there isn't a single thing wrong with dreaming.

Wayne

[bluesbrooks]

I just wnated to comment on the firmware issue. I was reading on the nomadness site and reading about the firmware issue. It seems everyone is unable to have the jukebox player take the firmware something about a creative key. I think there able to open files but it wont let them do anything without a certain key that tells the program that creative is working on it. i think the best bet is someone making something new instead of editing or hope that someone can talk creative into releasing the source. I dont see how it could hurt them releasing a source that is a couple years old now and is probably no where near what they are using now to compete with these other mp3 makers. Just my thoughts.

[Kindguy]

I've tried before when I ran a warm UA-5. 24/48 nothing but pops & clicks With a little music in the backround.