Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: Justinovitch on June 12, 2012, 10:10:44 AM
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Hello everybody!
I have been checking out this forum for the past few weeks looking through some threads regarding the taping of concerts. I usually film portions of gigs with my Kodak Zi8 and the internal mic is decent, but gets major distortion when its a loud gig. That's why I bought an external mic ( Sony ECM-DS30P ). It provides my recordings with better sound, yet lacks bass. I have been thinking about getting a Sony PCM-M10, Olympus LS-10 / 11 and a Zoom H2. I have found loads of recordings that were made with the Zoom H2 internal mics and those sounded great so I finally decided to get a Zoom H2N because I could get one pretty cheap ( I will recieve it tomorrow ).
I want to take it to local / bigger gigs and record using the internal mics. I am never in front of the stage because I happen to visit a lot of metal shows and don't want to be crushed / get my gear knocked out of my hands ( Slayer concert with a recorder in the frontrow is definatly a no-no ). I am however always standing, never up in the balconies or something when in a larger venue so I am directly facing the sound. I usually put my hand in the air with my Kodak to pick up the sound and film it. I don't really care that much for the video anymore, I just want to have good audio, so that is why I will replace my Zi8 / DS30P combo for the Zoom. And the battery life is much better with a Zoom recorder when compared to my Zi8.
So ( finally ) my question, what are the best settings to tape a ( usually ) loud metal gig? Using low cut and low gain? Or just one of them? My ECM-DS30P picks up audience noice like mad when on medium gain so I know that it's better to keep it low, but don't know if that will hurt the recording when using something like the Zoom H2N. And I don't need PERFECT audio, just audio without distortion, cracking and hissing ( might sound weird, but I only record for myself / Youtube, nothing else ) and with some of the bass intact.
I will finish my post with some samples with my Kodak Zi8 with and without internal mics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax8nR_iD1oc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax8nR_iD1oc) - Kodak Zi8 using internal mic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUCVMLE3d8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUCVMLE3d8) - Kodak Zi8 using internal mic with distortion / cracking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6SE7TQzZx8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6SE7TQzZx8) - Kodak Zi8 using external mic DS30P with low gain
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If you want to record metal shows without distortion, don't bother with the internal mics on the Zoom or anything else with internal mics. Those things are designed for recording lectures, maybe a band practice here and there, not super-amplified loud music. I don't know what you've heard with an H2N that you consider to be acceptable quality, but I've listened to several of the "A+" rated attempts on DIME and thought they were all garbage - and I'd say I am in the (large) majority on that. Anyone making even a little effort can do a whole lot better!
You don't need to spend a lot of money to have something that will work, but you will need to put in a bit more effort than a Zoom in the shirt pocket. I see you already tried that Sony external mic, so at least you seem willing to go that route.
The least expensive and best options for you are the Church Audio CA-11 plus a simple battery box; that setup is less than $150. You can pair that with the Zoom you have and be good to go. If you're in Europe, there are other options that may be easier and faster to get over there that are good, like the Soundman OKM-IIR or some of the Microphone Madness mic models (though some have an issue with distortion unless they are modified). The Sound Professionals line of mics (soundprofessionals.com) also has several that will work for you, including the SP-CMC-2 http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-2 (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-2) It is one of their least expensive models, and while not that heavy on the bass, that is probably a good thing for you doing metal shows. Just be sure to add the "low sensitivity" modification to anything you buy from them.
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Thank you for your reply.
The Soundman OKM-IIR is waaaaay to expensive ( it's 375 euros over here in the Netherlands ) especially when compared to the much cheaper CA-11.
I have read a lot of good things about the Church Audio CA-11 mics ( having them on my shirt collar + awesome sound quality sounds pretty darn good! ) and it's good to know that I can use them with my Zoom H2N. However, do I really need a battery box? It might sound stupid, I just want to know if hooking them directly to my Zoom H2N isn't good enough? I have heard some decent recordings using a Zoom recorder and a 80 dollar Sony condenser mic ( similair to my DS30P but a bit more expensive ) too, and those people didn't use a battery box either. Sorry for the ( perhaps ) silly questions, I just ask every question I can think of right now because you guys know everything regarding this subject ;)
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Yes, you must have a battery box. Running Mics>Battery Box>line in is one major way you avoid distortion. The mic inputs on most of these inexpensive recorders do not properly power most small mics. The Church Audio battery box is tiny - basically only a couple of centimeters wide and one centimeter or so deep - it attaches on top of, rather than actually holds, the battery, but it's quite stable.
The other mics I recommended like the SP-CMC-2, and I think most of the Microphone Madness models, are in the sub-$200 range.
Lots of people like these: http://microphonemadness.com/products/mmmincarster1.htm - though do check about needing the low-sensitivity mod. $95.
Church Audio's product is popular for several reasons, price being a big one, but also because unlike most of the other types of mics people use for low-profile recording, Chris' mics are actually designed for recording music in the way we do it, whereas most of the others are simply lavalier mics that are really more for vocal/broadcast/close mic-ing an instrument type purposes. Some are also low-profile choir mics, but again, not exactly what you are talking about doing.
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I'm in Europe, and here on "Yard Sale" forum, sure you can get some Church Audio CA-11 or CA-14 with battery box ( or a preamp) soon, shipped from USA.
It only spent no more than 2 week to get my new (used) CA-9000 preamp with a CA-11 cardioid mics from an USA member on "Yard Sale".
This audio came from Tascam DR-07 / CA-9000 / CA-11:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVGN0skrNUc
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I'm in Europe, and here on "Yard Sale" forum, sure you can get some Church Audio CA-11 or CA-14 with battery box ( or a preamp) soon, shipped from USA.
It only spent no more than 2 week to get my new (used) CA-9000 preamp with a CA-11 cardioid mics from an USA member on "Yard Sale".
This audio came from Tascam DR-07 / CA-9000 / CA-11:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVGN0skrNUc
Thanks for the tip! I have seen some videos of the CA-11 in action and I am impressed, I must have them :D One more question, will the Bat 2B be enough? It's a bit smaller and costs less when compared to the CA-9000. Thanks for al the great advice guys!
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Tough love, but here it goes. Throw the Zoom in the trash (or sell it on eBay). Don't be a zoomie if you really want to tape. Buy an M10, a battery box, and some B3s. If you skip the battery box for now, you can still make good tapes. One of our resident cable makers can help with terminating the B3s in a mini plug and can do the mod for high SPL situations.
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Tough love, but here it goes. Throw the Zoom in the trash (or sell it on eBay). Don't be a zoomie if you really want to tape. Buy an M10, a battery box, and some B3s. If you skip the battery box for now, you can still make good tapes. One of our resident cable makers can help with terminating the B3s in a mini plug and can do the mod for high SPL situations.
Classic "Don't be a zoomie if you really want to tape".
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Tough love, but here it goes. Throw the Zoom in the trash (or sell it on eBay). Don't be a zoomie if you really want to tape. Buy an M10, a battery box, and some B3s. If you skip the battery box for now, you can still make good tapes. One of our resident cable makers can help with terminating the B3s in a mini plug and can do the mod for high SPL situations.
Classic "Don't be a zoomie if you really want to tape".
Guys - you know I agree with you about Zooms, but as noted, he's already bought the Zoom. While it would not be my choice of recorder, I don't see why it's not at least passable when used with external mics line-in. No?
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Tough love, but here it goes. Throw the Zoom in the trash (or sell it on eBay). Don't be a zoomie if you really want to tape. Buy an M10, a battery box, and some B3s. If you skip the battery box for now, you can still make good tapes. One of our resident cable makers can help with terminating the B3s in a mini plug and can do the mod for high SPL situations.
Classic "Don't be a zoomie if you really want to tape".
Guys - you know I agree with you about Zooms, but as noted, he's already bought the Zoom. While it would not be my choice of recorder, I don't see why it's not at least passable when used with external mics line-in. No?
From what I've read the noisy input issues of the older Zooms is resolved. While not as good as my M10 ;) it should work. After he gets mics and preamp/battery box sorted out, then I'd suggest revisiting the recorder.
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OK. Keep the zoom, smash the built in mics with a hammer, get a battery box and some B3s. Make nice tapes. Easy.
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OK. Keep the zoom, smash the built in mics with a hammer, get a battery box and some B3s. Make nice tapes. Easy.
Poke 'em with a little needle a million times, and fill 'em with superglue. I heard that works.
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OK. Keep the zoom, smash the built in mics with a hammer, get a battery box and some B3s. Make nice tapes. Easy.
Poke 'em with a little needle a million times, and fill 'em with superglue. I heard that works.
Fuck! Superglue!? Best DIY post here for months. Why didn't I think of that?
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OK. Keep the zoom, smash the built in mics with a hammer, get a battery box and some B3s. Make nice tapes. Easy.
Poke 'em with a little needle a million times, and fill 'em with superglue. I heard that works.
Fuck! Superglue!? Best DIY post here for months. Why didn't I think of that?
:crazy: Crazy Ghetto. Thanks for the laugh guys!
Reminds me of a guitar player I knew in school that couldn't afford a distortion pedal so he poked several holes in his speaker cone with a pencil to achieve distortion.
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dunno. never heard either the c11s or the zoom h2o until reading this post. i listened with my headphones at work just now. while i think the c11s sound a bit *better*, i wouldn't be all like little miss snooty snatches about the differences. the c11s are nothing i'd ever write home about, based on the sample of zack above, nor the zoom, but in a good room, controlled environment and a (maybe) a bit of post, the zoooom sounds like it'd work ok. certainly nothing as bad as smashing the internals to bits, filling them with glue, or shitting on them = in comparison with those c11s. seems like for the money, the o.p. will do fine until he upgrades sometime.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkZBVGFZPcI
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Lighten up, db. It's a joke.
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Lighten up, db. It's a joke.
lighten up what? what do i care? i just thought that the dissing of the kid's gear in favor of something not that much better (as depicted here) is not really helpful.
don't worry capn' i'll sleep tonight.
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I don't want anybody to smash the internals of their deck if they come here seeking advice. Posting here indicates some level of seriousness about our hobby. I was merely trying to make a point while being light hearted and fun. Why mince words with a :zombie02: if they're seeking advice? I hope the OP gets some mics so the tapes are good and I want to hear them. During Gary Clark Jr on Sunday, a dude came up to me that had a mic taped to his hat while we were openly high and proud. Wanted to talk about using low cut. I obliged. We both talked all over his tape, I'm sure it's garbage, but the next one will be better. Mission accomplished.
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OK I'll put in my .02 It is possible to make a good tape with a H4n. She is a sensitive creature who needs to be touched in just the right way. Obviously the :zombie02: is for those who put them on their hats, or placed on tabletops or other equally nonsensical locations. Have a little patience with the zoomie noobies. we all start somewhere. In a few years maybe they will actually learn enough to teach you a lil some'in, some'in!
Or maybe not??
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Eh, I'll still carry a tube of superglue in my gearbag, in case a :zombie02: asks to borrow some.
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Hey, don't forget me and Bry's recent "stealth matrix" done with H4n internals for the aud portion. Stills sounds damned good! Like you said once, "the crappiest gear in the best spot makes the best tape"
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Hey, don't forget me and Bry's recent "stealth matrix" done with H4n internals for the aud portion. Stills sounds damned good! Like you said once, "the crappiest gear in the best spot makes the best tape"
Necessity breeds innovation. If we could've run mics in the air, we would've. BUT, given the circumstances that is a nice tape. Farg it, it's a great tape! :cheers:
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You are right about that guys. I have a buddy that is a :zoomie1: , and I always snatch a copy of his source to add to my matrix. He knows how to use it well, and makes some very decent sounding recordings. He flies it really high, and has the most unusual mount and windscreen that he barn-jobbed up to replace what was broken or lost. He's on my A-list, like a whole bunch of y'all.....
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SO what was the original question? I lost track with all the :zombie02: >:D Aren't ya glad you came here for help now???
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SO what was the original question? I lost track with all the :zombie02: >:D Aren't ya glad you came here for help now???
Haha, I AM glad! I will get myself a set of CA mics + batt box in the future, but for now, I'll use a Sony ECM-719 ( got it real cheap second hand + selling my DSP30 mic ) as a beginners mic. I picked the Sony ECM-719 because I downloaded a bunch of bootlegs recorded with that mic and they all sound good. I don't know if all of those tapers clipped the mic to their collar though ( like I want to do ). Then again, where else would they clip it? A hat or glasses or something?
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SO what was the original question? I lost track with all the :zombie02: >:D Aren't ya glad you came here for help now???
Haha, I AM glad! I will get myself a set of CA mics + batt box in the future, but for now, I'll use a Sony ECM-719 ( got it real cheap second hand + selling my DSP30 mic ) as a beginners mic. I picked the Sony ECM-719 because I downloaded a bunch of bootlegs recorded with that mic and they all sound good. I don't know if all of those tapers clipped the mic to their collar though ( like I want to do ). Then again, where else would they clip it? A hat or glasses or something?
Justinovitch, the term "bootleg" is frowned on around here, as I'm sure you will come to realize when you spend more time around this community. I look forward to hearing some of your archival recordings, after you make them and make them available.
Whatever you do, don't clip your mic to your backside....you will make a recording that sounds like "arse" ;D
Find the sweet sounding spot, be still, and tape away..... :coolguy:
Have fun, Kevin.
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SO what was the original question? I lost track with all the :zombie02: >:D Aren't ya glad you came here for help now???
Haha, I AM glad! I will get myself a set of CA mics + batt box in the future, but for now, I'll use a Sony ECM-719 ( got it real cheap second hand + selling my DSP30 mic ) as a beginners mic. I picked the Sony ECM-719 because I downloaded a bunch of bootlegs recorded with that mic and they all sound good. I don't know if all of those tapers clipped the mic to their collar though ( like I want to do ). Then again, where else would they clip it? A hat or glasses or something?
Justinovitch, the term "bootleg" is frowned on around here, as I'm sure you will come to realize when you spend more time around this community. I look forward to hearing some of your archival recordings, after you make them and make them available.
Whatever you do, don't clip your mic to your backside....you will make a recording that sounds like "arse" ;D
Find the sweet sounding spot, be still, and tape away..... :coolguy:
Have fun, Kevin.
Crap, I already knew about that, sorry! I will use the word recording from now on ;) And thanks for all the advice guys!
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I know I'm extremely late on the topic, but I wanted to add my two cent for any newcomers that may stumble across this thread like I just did.
From my personal experience, I don't see why the Zoom H2n gets all the hate it does when using the internal mics.
Maybe it's because I listen to/record classic rock gigs, as opposed to the metal gigs mentioned by the original poster.
I've only recorded one gig so far, and it came out great.
There is also another recorder in the area that is on DIME and about 90% of his uploads rival soundboard quality with plenty of bass/low end.
Are people just not checking/adjusting the recording levels as soon as the show starts, resulting in brickwalled captures?
Now, I have heard a decent amount of subpar recordings with the Zoom H2...
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I know I'm extremely late on the topic, but I wanted to add my two cent for any newcomers that may stumble across this thread like I just did.
From my personal experience, I don't see why the Zoom H2n gets all the hate it does when using the internal mics.
Maybe it's because I listen to/record classic rock gigs, as opposed to the metal gigs mentioned by the original poster.
I've only recorded one gig so far, and it came out great.
There is also another recorder in the area that is on DIME and about 90% of his uploads rival soundboard quality with plenty of bass/low end.
Are people just not checking/adjusting the recording levels as soon as the show starts, resulting in brickwalled captures?
Now, I have heard a decent amount of subpar recordings with the Zoom H2...
it's because portions of this board have a hard-on for expensive gear and love shitting on anyone who isn't running a $1000+ rig. see the 20+ page thread bashing recordings posted to DIME for more
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I know I'm extremely late on the topic, but I wanted to add my two cent for any newcomers that may stumble across this thread like I just did.
From my personal experience, I don't see why the Zoom H2n gets all the hate it does when using the internal mics.
Maybe it's because I listen to/record classic rock gigs, as opposed to the metal gigs mentioned by the original poster.
I've only recorded one gig so far, and it came out great.
There is also another recorder in the area that is on DIME and about 90% of his uploads rival soundboard quality with plenty of bass/low end.
Are people just not checking/adjusting the recording levels as soon as the show starts, resulting in brickwalled captures?
Now, I have heard a decent amount of subpar recordings with the Zoom H2...
Record a show side by side with someone running real mics and compare the results. The internal mics WILL NOT make a soundboard quality recording of anything besides pink noise.
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I know I'm extremely late on the topic, but I wanted to add my two cent for any newcomers that may stumble across this thread like I just did.
From my personal experience, I don't see why the Zoom H2n gets all the hate it does when using the internal mics.
Maybe it's because I listen to/record classic rock gigs, as opposed to the metal gigs mentioned by the original poster.
I've only recorded one gig so far, and it came out great.
There is also another recorder in the area that is on DIME and about 90% of his uploads rival soundboard quality with plenty of bass/low end.
Are people just not checking/adjusting the recording levels as soon as the show starts, resulting in brickwalled captures?
Now, I have heard a decent amount of subpar recordings with the Zoom H2...
Record a show side by side with someone running real mics and compare the results. The internal mics WILL NOT make a soundboard quality recording of anything besides pink noise.
This was recorded using the Zoom H2n's internal mics. The phasing between channels is because it was windy (literally beach front, about 50-100 feet from the ocean) and the recorder wasn't using a windscreen, so disregard that aspect. I have hundreds of other Cheap Trick shows recorded with $500-1000 gear that come nowhere close to this quality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPd2mWpf7t8
This example was recorded two rows from the lawn, so relatively far back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTgyLjBujZw
The Soapbox in Wilmington was notorious for shitty acoustics (at least for the shows I saw there) and even the recording in that venue turned out great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj2CUdew8Nw
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I know I'm extremely late on the topic, but I wanted to add my two cent for any newcomers that may stumble across this thread like I just did.
From my personal experience, I don't see why the Zoom H2n gets all the hate it does when using the internal mics.
Maybe it's because I listen to/record classic rock gigs, as opposed to the metal gigs mentioned by the original poster.
I've only recorded one gig so far, and it came out great.
There is also another recorder in the area that is on DIME and about 90% of his uploads rival soundboard quality with plenty of bass/low end.
Are people just not checking/adjusting the recording levels as soon as the show starts, resulting in brickwalled captures?
Now, I have heard a decent amount of subpar recordings with the Zoom H2...
it's because portions of this board have a hard-on for expensive gear and love shitting on anyone who isn't running a $1000+ rig. see the 20+ page thread bashing recordings posted to DIME for more
Nice to see you here man, I've seen you around DIME, hubs, etc.
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Get your hearing checked.
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Sounds soundboard quality if I turn my volume to 0. :o
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Get your hearing checked.
No thanks, I'm sure the doctor I would visit wouldn't be expensive enough, meaning he wouldn't be a "real" doctor.
You guys act like the Zoom creates nothing but white noise, and are completely giving the wrong impression and discouraging those new to the hobby that want to try it out with an inexpensive recorder.
Do you guys somehow feel threatened that with today's technology anyone with $200 can create very listenable recordings?
microphone - noun - a device into which people speak or sing in order to record their voices or to make them sound louder
It's funny how you guys throw the "real mic" terminology around.
What exactly is a "real" mic?
Nowhere in the Websters dictionary definition for "microphone" does it imply that a real microphone is determined by how much it cost.
Nice try at attempting to be an "elite" and boosting your ego while simultaneously attempting to make others with less expensive gear feel inferior, but you can stop now.
I forgot why I stopped coming to this forum, but thanks for quickly reminding me.
It's OK to have differing opinions, especially when they are presented respectfully.
But to be short, sarcastic, and condescending, with an approach that your opinion should be considered fact, is completely uncalled for and unnecessary.
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Get your hearing checked.
No thanks, I'm sure the doctor I would visit wouldn't be expensive enough, meaning he wouldn't be a "real" doctor.
You guys act like the Zoom creates nothing but white noise, and are completely giving the wrong impression and discouraging those new to the hobby that want to try it out with an inexpensive recorder.
Do you guys somehow feel threatened that with today's technology anyone with $200 can create very listenable recordings?
microphone - noun - a device into which people speak or sing in order to record their voices or to make them sound louder
It's funny how you guys throw the "real mic" terminology around.
What exactly is a "real" mic?
Nowhere in the Websters dictionary definition for "microphone" does it imply that a real microphone is determined by how much it cost.
Nice try at attempting to be an "elite" and boosting your ego while simultaneously attempting to make others with less expensive gear feel inferior, but you can stop now.
I forgot why I stopped coming to this forum, but thanks for quickly reminding me.
It's OK to have differing opinions, especially when they are presented respectfully.
But to be short, sarcastic, and condescending, with an approach that your opinion should be considered fact, is completely uncalled for and unnecessary.
With microphones (like everything else) there are different levels of quality that may or may not be related to cost. If you can tell me there is no difference in quality between those recordings posted on youtube and a recording made with better gear i.e. external mics and the internal zoomie mics then you do need your ears checked. Personally, I am not willing to listen to a recording like those posted just as I am not willing to go to McDonalds if I want a steak or drink a glass of Mad Dog 20 20 if I want a glass of wine. If those are your standards, that's fine but don't tell me there is no difference.
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I'm as big a fan of Southern Culture On The Skids as the next man, but if you want to hear what even budget equipment will sound like, with just a little more work (separate mics, getting them up in the air), here you go:
https://archive.org/details/scots2011-03-25.at933
Not trying to put you off...but you're only halfway to making recordings that everyone can enjoy!
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You guys act like the Zoom creates nothing but white noise, and are completely giving the wrong impression
And you are giving the impression that you're making "soundboard quality" recordings using the internal mics on a recorder that is widely considered not the best product of its kind.
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SMBTapes, since your final destination is the Utubes, the forum is right you are wasting your time with the H2N. Surprised no one has suggested that Zoom has a Q2HD which combines high definition video and stereo audio recording all in one unit. You could get rid of both your current video recorder and the H2N to pick up this Q2HD that will do it all ! ! !
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Reading through this thread, I got an idea. Why not do an experiment? Put a Zoom H2 with internals on the same stand as a mid-grade set of mics in the sweet spot and compare the results side by side. Unless that has been done. Anyone want to loan me an H2 so I can do the experiment?
Then, for the real test, we can post copies of both recordings, unlabelled as to which was which. Everyone has a listen and we decide which was the Zoom and which was the better rig. I'd be willing to do the work. (And I might be able to borrow an H2 locally)
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Tough love, but here it goes. Throw the Zoom in the trash (or sell it on eBay). Don't be a zoomie if you really want to tape. Buy an M10, a battery box, and some B3s. If you skip the battery box for now, you can still make good tapes. One of our resident cable makers can help with terminating the B3s in a mini plug and can do the mod for high SPL situations.
Since I have an M10 and a show I wanna tape(full disclosure, I'm not a taper, just mostly got patches in 80s/90s), a few questions. Trade Friendly band Wishbone Ash playing Ram's Head in Annapolis in Sept. It's possible I could get a board patch according to DIME post of a W.A. show. I was thinking of the M10 on the table. Now considering bringing my DA-P1 for the board patch. Or taking this post suggestions of getting a battery box, B3s and using that at my table. I taped Bruce Cockburn at same venue on the table straight to the external M10 mics and it came out ok, but thats acoustic. I now gather using just the M10 stand alone may not be the best idea. What about getting board patch into the M10? It's possible I could borrow mics (Neumanns) from a taper friend. Not sure what to do.
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Tough love, but here it goes. Throw the Zoom in the trash (or sell it on eBay). Don't be a zoomie if you really want to tape. Buy an M10, a battery box, and some B3s. If you skip the battery box for now, you can still make good tapes. One of our resident cable makers can help with terminating the B3s in a mini plug and can do the mod for high SPL situations.
Since I have an M10 and a show I wanna tape(full disclosure, I'm not a taper, just mostly got patches in 80s/90s), a few questions. Trade Friendly band Wishbone Ash playing Ram's Head in Annapolis in Sept. It's possible I could get a board patch according to DIME post of a W.A. show. I was thinking of the M10 on the table. Now considering bringing my DA-P1 for the board patch. Or taking this post suggestions of getting a battery box, B3s and using that at my table. I taped Bruce Cockburn at same venue on the table straight to the external M10 mics and it came out ok, but thats acoustic. I now gather using just the M10 stand alone may not be the best idea. What about getting board patch into the M10? It's possible I could borrow mics (Neumanns) from a taper friend. Not sure what to do.
If you don't know what you're doing, borrowing "some Neumanns" is going to have a steeper learning curve and a lot more gear involved. The board patch will require you to have an accommodating sound engineer at the club who will be willing to set that up for you; it'll also require you to have the proper cables, which will mean you need XLR cables with XLR-M to 1/4" male and XLR-F to RCA adapters to go into the board (depending on the inputs) plus dual XLR-F to stereo mini to plug into the M10's line in. Bad news is, depending on many factors, that SBD feed may not sound like it does in the room; in most smallish rooms the feed is light on stuff that you can hear easily in the audience, like guitars (because their amps play loud).
Buying some nice mics like B3s or Church Audio plus a battery box and running them into the deck is relatively the easiest; it's the same as using the internal mics except that you plug that stuff into the M10's line in. Get the mics as high up as possible, aim them at the stacks, etc. etc.
The lowest cost option is to buy the necessary cables and adapters for the SBD patch; the option least likely to get screwed up is the buying mics option. It doesn't really matter. Just give a whirl and have fun. It's likely that a first time out won't go well, but you'll learn something. If it does go well, then more power to you!
Also: The M10's internals aren't ideal, but they aren't so horrible either. If you're at a table nice and up close (but not too close, if the band has vocals that come from the PA) they'll do alright. But yes, as others already said, you'll make much better recordings doing something else.
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And of course, you can't run Neumanns straight into the M10 anyhow.
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Thanks for the giggle and trip down memory lane!
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the c11s are nothing i'd ever write home about, based on the sample of zack abovepgrades sometime.
IMO CA-11's are excellent sounding microphones (even the original version) especially for the money. Get them in a sweet spot and you can make great recordings with them.
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If you want to record metal shows without distortion, don't bother with the internal mics on the Zoom or anything else with internal mics. Those things are designed for recording lectures, maybe a band practice here and there, not super-amplified loud music.
I record my rock band rehearsals at close range, with the guitarist using a Marshall stack and a Fender Twin Reverb, the bassist using a 400+ Watt amp and the drummer pummeling away, and the H2N does a good job of capturing it without overload. If I didn't have pro attenuating earplugs in, I'd be deaf when I leave.
Set the H2N's levels down between 1 and 2.
For under $150 for an H2N - Sam Ash was closing them out last week for $129 - you can't go wrong.
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Now then Peeps, was this recorded with an H2, or was it something else ?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70230944/Big%20Band.mp3