Topic: So - Am I missing any tragic flaws in the Fostex FR-2 LE?

[Roving Sign]

In not a stealther, I dont need digital input...it's moddable - what am I missing here?

Just looking for a solid all-in-one solution...at less than 500 bucks - this looks hard to beat.

Only a few threads on this device...but

At this point - Im ready to send a few things to ebay to make some cash for one of these...

Can anyone talk me down...!

[Javier Cinakowski]

Not missing anyhting, it is a fantastic box.  The PMD660 is slighly smaller, but only does 16bit.  Very convienent....

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I haven't seen much on it either (I went through the thread on it a couple days ago). What are the gain ranges? Do the inputs overload?  Extreme bass handling? Does it have a hold button?

[eric.B]

I haven't seen much on it either (I went through the thread on it a couple days ago). What are the gain ranges? Do the inputs overload?  Extreme bass handling? Does it have a hold button?

some details..  I've only used the box once, so I don't have too many things to add.  Plus the one I have is an oade tcm, so I can't offer any info on the stock box

Testing at home shows my box has about 40-50db of gain, allthough I could be wrong. 

no *full* hold feature.. you can lock the top panel which is good, but the "rec stndby" button is allways live and will stop the recording if you hit it.  I have mine covered with a strip of velcro...

Build quality is decent, and so far I have had no "hiccups" so to speak in terms of function.  Ive been able to read every file and the box works perfectly when hooked up directly to a 'puter (shows as ext. drive).

Can be set to record either in 2gig or 4 gig mode in terms of file size and I have tried them all at home at all sample/bitrates.. no problems.. 

Power is the real gem..  I have a 7.2 3000mah NiMH tamiya battery which I have run for 6+ hours running phantom with the lcd screen on.  The battery level meter only decreased by about a third, so I would imagine at least 8 hrs on one of these batteries running phantom.  Line-in alot more I would think..

The only "problem" Ive had so far with my minimal testing is..  I ran it for one show with a v2 in front running line-in.  All night I thought I was bouncing off zero, yet there is indeed verrrrry minor clipping in some spots even though the peak lights never came on...  I will be more conservative in the future.. 

I will be posting more info as I get it ..  here..   http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,92774.msg1235403.html#msg1235403

[timP]

did ya run the V2 XLR in or 1/4 inch in?


curious is all.......


not much of a gear fluffer anymore......

i like what i like, you like... etc

but the box has worked fine for me so far  (~10 shows)
no file issues. batt life is fine... meters are fine...

starts a new file if you hit the record button, so
not worried about it if you have the Stop button locked


ran some trials and figured running it around 9/ 10 o'clock, if on it's side looking at the dial, was the best range to run it with a pre-infront... adjust yr levels on the pre

[eric.B]

did ya run the V2 XLR in or 1/4 inch in?


curious is all.......


not much of a gear fluffer anymore......

i like what i like, you like... etc

but the box has worked fine for me so far  (~10 shows)
no file issues. batt life is fine... meters are fine...

starts a new file if you hit the record button, so
not worried about it if you have the Stop button locked


ran some trials and figured running it around 9/ 10 o'clock, if on it's side looking at the dial, was the best range to run it with a pre-infront... adjust yr levels on the pre

v2 rca > 1/4 ts

[George2]

Ya know, output from V2 too hot for FR-2LE. Best to use pad, or run V2 carefully. Also Metering on FR-2LE is minimal. You need to format the card at the sample/bit rate you will be using, this cannot be changed unless you do a reformat.  About 40db gain from mic pres, with trim control. Headphone amp has hiss, but not on the BWAV  file. Sound quality is excellent on stock unit- what goes in, comes out the same.
Read more at this forum.

http://www.fostexusa.com/mercuryboard/index.php?a=forum&f=22

[Roving Sign]

Do the trimmers work like mixer channel strip?

IE - Is the first set of red lights on the front meter a peak light (for the trimmers) - independent of the downstream gain and meters...?

[George2]

Yes, the first lights are red peak lights for the mic trim. Then the rest of the meters are for overall level. The trim pots only control mic gain, they don't do anything when using the 1/4  line input: line input is -10 consumer level unbalanced.

[Roving Sign]

Yes, the first lights are red peak lights for the mic trim. Then the rest of the meters are for overall level. The trim pots only control mic gain, they don't do anything when using the 1/4  line input: line input is -10 consumer level unbalanced.

Thanks - thats what I was hoping

and...that might explain why the V2 was brickwalling the Fostex...

[spyder9]

Those combo jacks are tough.  The sound from the V2 goes through the LE's Pre before it gets to the ADC.  That's why you brickwall.  There's no way getting past the LE's Pre.

V2 > LE Pre > LE ADC   

[Roving Sign]

Those combo jacks are tough.  The sound from the V2 goes through the LE's Pre before it gets to the ADC.  That's why you brickwall.  There's no way getting past the LE's Pre.

V2 > LE Pre > LE ADC   

I wonder if thats the case?...another poster said the trimmers dont do anything when using 1/4 unbalanced line in...

Sounded more like a pro gear line level being sent to something expecting a consumer line level...?

...The trim pots only control mic gain, they don't do anything when using the 1/4  line input:...

[George2]

So why aren't the preamp trimpots active with line in?  Preamp gain -50 to -10. after that -10 line input without pre. V2 output +4 nominal- max +26. Fostex FR-2LE Max input +2DBV Nominal -10 DBV
Take a look at the manual.... it's online. Better yet, Buy one and open it up.

http://www.fostexusa.com/support/pdf/fostex/fr2le/fr2le_owners_manual.pdf

[eric.B]

So why aren't the preamp trimpots active with line in?  Preamp gain -50 to -10. after that -10 line input without pre. V2 output +4 nominal- max +26. Fostex FR-2LE Max input +2DBV Nominal -10 DBV
Take a look at the manual.... it's online. Better yet, Buy one and open it up.

http://www.fostexusa.com/support/pdf/fostex/fr2le/fr2le_owners_manual.pdf

YES the trim pots DO NOT work when you run 1/4 ts in..  and what I experienced is NOT brickwalling..  it was clipping over 0..  only thing is the clip lights never came on during the recording.  These were on cymbal crashes and they happened every so often...   Yes I was sending the LE a hot signal and the input knob was not wide open..  I just think I have to run the v2 more conservatively and run the LE wide open..

edit:.. o wait, I guess what was happening was brickwalling.. just a *very* mild type..

[tenesejedd]

In not a stealther, I dont need digital input...it's moddable - what am I missing here?

Just looking for a solid all-in-one solution...at less than 500 bucks - this looks hard to beat.

Only a few threads on this device...but

At this point - Im ready to send a few things to ebay to make some cash for one of these...

Can anyone talk me down...!

I'm actually contemplating the same move. I would be interested to hear your results. I am curious how the CK-1s match up with the FR2-LE.  I was talking to Busman about a modded unit. He felt the T-mod would pair nicely with the ck-1s since these mics already have a full low end to them.

Keep us posted if you do go for one.

[Roving Sign]

Wondering about this?

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/pro_support/FR2LE_V110_supplement.pdf

Scroll down to #3

"Peak (default) - The LED level meters on the front panel act as the peak meters."

"Level - The LED level meters on the front panel act as the level meters."

Whats that mean? Is this really just a matter of calibration of the LED segments...

[digifish_music]

I am sure I got this link on this forum, but the noise floor and internal mic-pres of the LE are compared here...

http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I am sure I got this link on this forum, but the noise floor and internal mic-pres of the LE are compared here...

http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm

That guy has done some great work and the data are very interesting and useful... But his focus is nature recording. I don't like how he tests the recorders at max gain because the amount of gain is different for each recorder and that makes it hard to compare the results.  Most of us don't go anywhere near max gain.  I'd like to see the test at 20 or 30dB of gain, etc.  Also, even for nature recording, I want to know the noise in line-in mode.

He also omits a lot of important info on how the recorders were configured.  Max gain.. Is that the H setting on a microtrack with the +27db boost?  722 at 70dB of gain?  Etc.

[flintstone]

Raimund Specht's tests are at max gain because that's often the setting needed for nature recording, like bird song or quiet ambience.  Max gain usually is the worst-case scenario for a recorder's preamp.  Almost all gear sounds OK at low to medium gain.

Dr. Specht's tests may have little relevance if you regularly record in a loud club environment.  There you have to be more concerned about attenuating the input to the preamp, not maximizing it.

Flintstone

[ArchivalAudio]

Those combo jacks are tough.  The sound from the V2 goes through the LE's Pre before it gets to the ADC.  That's why you brickwall.  There's no way getting past the LE's Pre.

V2 > LE Pre > LE ADC   

umm
I doubt this is correct...
the neutrik combo lacks are not wired to the same path
1/4 are the line ins
and XLR are the Mic ins


the line ins should bypass the mic pre

as supported by the specs:
Recording/Reproduction Frequency 20 Hz - 20 kHz ±2dB (FS 44.1/48kHz)
20 Hz - 40 kHz ±3dB (FS 88.2/96kHz)
S/N (ADC-DAC, 24bit, 48kHz)
Line (Input Gain: +4dBu) 95dB (typical)
Mic (Input Gain: -60dBu) 85dB (typical)
Dynamic Range 95dB (typical) (ADC-DAC, 24bit, 48kHz)
T.H.D. (ADC-DAC, 24it, 48kHz)
Line less than 0.008% (at 1kHz – 1dB, typical)
Mic (trim max) less than 0.01% (at 1kHz – 1dB, typical)
Channel Separation more than 90dB (at 1kHz 0dB) (24bit, -20BFS, 48kHz)


here:
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/pro_products/fr2le_spec.shtml
I am very interested in ths unit too

eric b thanx for you posts

[Brian Skalinder]

umm
I doubt this is correct...
the neutrik combo lacks are not wired to the same path
1/4 are the line ins
and XLR are the Mic ins


the line ins should bypass the mic pre

I'm guessing the 1/4" line-in simply have a pad in the signal path.  That's how most of the all-in-one boxes work.  AFAIK, anyway...haven't dissected them myself, but others far more knowledgeable than me have posted their findings plenty of times in the past.

[Roving Sign]

umm
I doubt this is correct...
the neutrik combo lacks are not wired to the same path
1/4 are the line ins
and XLR are the Mic ins


the line ins should bypass the mic pre

I'm guessing the 1/4" line-in simply have a pad in the signal path.  That's how most of the all-in-one boxes work.  AFAIK, anyway...haven't dissected them myself, but others far more knowledgeable than me have posted their findings plenty of times in the past.

Except - unlike most all-in-one boxes - this unit has mic trimmers and peak lights that operate independently of the master level control (and other metering) - and are not active when using line in. At least a little evidence that SOME of the signal path is separate?

[Roving Sign]

Those combo jacks are tough.  The sound from the V2 goes through the LE's Pre before it gets to the ADC.  That's why you brickwall.  There's no way getting past the LE's Pre.

V2 > LE Pre > LE ADC   

umm
I doubt this is correct...
the neutrik combo lacks are not wired to the same path
1/4 are the line ins
and XLR are the Mic ins


the line ins should bypass the mic pre

I hope that is wrong also - but it has not been uncommon for circuits to be designed that way.

I think the Sony D-10 and the Tascam DA-P20 both have a Line in thats padded and sent to the mic pre...

[Jamos]

I always wondered this myself...(about the line inputs bypassing the pres)
Busman should be able to answer this now that he has modded a few of these boxes.

[ArchivalAudio]

Busman

Chris
are you here?

can you solve this mystery?

thanx in advance

[nbasila]

Chris just modded one for me. It looks like it will arrive on Friday.

[Colin Liston]

Has anyone plugged one of these into a soundboard? 

[Jammin72]

Has anyone plugged one of these into a soundboard? 

I'll test something similar soon.  The SV-3800 allows for both -10dB and +4dB output which should cover the output from any board that will actually allow you to patch.

Though I have to start looking into a new DAT playback solution as this one is starting to drift out of alignment... 

[Jammin72]

Oh and after doing a quick Specs check.

The Mic Reference Level Input is -50 - -10 with a maximum of +2

After the Oade Mod this shifts from -40 - +0,  I can only assume that the maximum will also rise which leads me to believe that Going XLR from the board into the tweaked input would be the way to go from soundboards.

The standard Line In max is +2dBu which would be not enough for some soundboard outputs but plenty for Record or Tape outputs if the board is so equipped. 

[tenesejedd]

I guess I'm still a little confused.

If I plan to run a pre in front of the FR-2LE, would it make a difference if I had the unit modded or not? Or would it depend on if i was running XLR in from the pre versus 1/4'' in from the pre?

[eric.B]

not sure of the busman mod, but the oade modification upgrades the signals paths on both.. the mic and line inputs..

[timP]

I guess I'm still a little confused.

If I plan to run a pre in front of the FR-2LE, would it make a difference if I had the unit modded or not? Or would it depend on if i was running XLR in from the pre versus 1/4'' in from the pre?

you won't need any mods... just run line in on the fostex