Topic: A complete novice seeking advice!

[ritchietom]

Hi,
I'm completely new to this forum and to the topics the forum covers.
A "friend" met on the web suggested this forum to find information about mics, taping, etc.
As I said I'm a complete novice and that's why I need some help.
I'm turning 40 this year and together with a few mates of mine we have planned to go to NYC to see The Police live in concert to celebrate in a very special way.
We thought that to make it more than a great occasion to remember we should try to tape the concert and keep it together with our memories of the 2007. Our children may one day appreciate it. ;-)
I have no idea what sort of taping system I should get and more to the point we thought we could collect some $$ between us and buy something that will be able to tape satisfactorily.
We are not looking for super duper very high quality taping but something that we could play back in a few years time remembering that fantastic 40th birthday without too much pain for our ears ;-)
Furthermore I don't really want to spend $$ if there will be a definite risk of having the taping gear confiscated at the Madison Sq. Garden entrance.

I will be more than grateful if somebody could spare a few minutes to answer this .

Thanking you in advace

Regards,

[greenone]

Welcome to TS.com.

If you're looking to get into the hobby for the long term, the FAQs are a good place to start - various options are available for almost any budget. But to be perfectly honest, if your first try is going to be the Police at MSG, I might skip it and just enjoy the show with your friends. Seems like an awfully tall task for even an experienced taper. That said, chances are good someone will get a decent recording of the show and there's much less effort involved in grabbing a copy later. I hate to steer anyone away from taping but it sounds like this is much more than just a concert - you don't want to spend time worrying about screwing something up if you've never done it before and ruining the rest of your experience...

[OFOTD]

Hi,
I'm completely new to this forum and to the topics the forum covers.
A "friend" met on the web suggested this forum to find information about mics, taping, etc.
As I said I'm a complete novice and that's why I need some help.
I'm turning 40 this year and together with a few mates of mine we have planned to go to NYC to see The Police live in concert to celebrate in a very special way.
We thought that to make it more than a great occasion to remember we should try to tape the concert and keep it together with our memories of the 2007. Our children may one day appreciate it. ;-)
I have no idea what sort of taping system I should get and more to the point we thought we could collect some $$ between us and buy something that will be able to tape satisfactorily.
We are not looking for super duper very high quality taping but something that we could play back in a few years time remembering that fantastic 40th birthday without too much pain for our ears ;-)
Furthermore I don't really want to spend $$ if there will be a definite risk of having the taping gear confiscated at the Madison Sq. Garden entrance.

I will be more than grateful if somebody could spare a few minutes to answer this .

Thanking you in advace

Regards,

I agree with Greenone.  If you do still want to tape check out the "Where to begin...." section of this site.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/board,46.0.html

Good luck!

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

If you want to record just one show (The Police), I would say don't do it.  Taping at a concert such at that will be a pain and you may not be able to enjoy the show like you want. 

And trust me, there will be people there taping the shows... 

Terry

[Church-Audio]

I agree with everyone here too. If you did record the show you would have to keep your head still because that is most likely where your mics will be placed on your head. Its not fun to sit and watch a concert and not be able to talk, move your head, Go to the bathroom, or drink anything.. Hummm sounds like good times to me You are better off finding a copy somewhere. Just don't pay for it the people in the taping community hate people that sell there recordings for profit.

If you do want to tape more then just this show by all means check out the sections here. But if not take our advice its not a cheap hobby the cheapest rig you could get with any kind of quality would be $350 Minimum and that is for a very basic system. There are people here who have spent much more then that on this little "hobby" I dont want to discourage you but, its like any hobby out there it costs money to get into it. Good luck let us know how it worked out.

[ritchietom]

Guys I am really overwhelmed and you don't know how much I appreciate your replies.
I thought I ask somebody that like you is in this "hobby" for a long time before getting into something that may ruin the whole experience. 
Better to forget about it and enjoy the show.
I am very glad I asked your opinion guys.
Keep up the good work. I'll be back whenever I'll need any advice in the future.
Thank you very much.

Cheers

[beefstew]

Guys I am really overwhelmed and you don't know how much I appreciate your replies.
I thought I ask somebody that like you is in this "hobby" for a long time before getting into something that may ruin the whole experience. 
Better to forget about it and enjoy the show.
I am very glad I asked your opinion guys.
Keep up the good work. I'll be back whenever I'll need any advice in the future.
Thank you very much.

Cheers

You could buy a rig, put it on someone else and have them suffer 

But if you want to try this hobby out, you should buy an MD recorder [very cheap] and mics / preamps from Sound Pros and  Church Audio - Never owned a rig from CA, but heard great recordings made by the equipment, and he's one of the nicest fellows around.

After you get a rig together, test out at a concert with minimal security - local bar show, or semi-popular band.

 

[SparkE!]

Aw heck.  You've got to start somewhere.  Go for it.  Just about everyone's first show is something that they cared about.  And you'll definitely enjoy having the recording as a keepsake, even with any warts and newbie mistakes that might be involved.  It's rare that you get complete garbage your first time out.  And until you go for the first time out, you'll never go for the second or third or .... you get the picture.

[hawghunter]

yeah, spend approx $500 on the R-9, MT or H4 zoom (i think). then a battery box and mics. Chris Church sell battery box and mics. I would and did, its only money. there's always another day to make more $. may not be another show that you can get a recording of. however MSG, i don't know about. But I could have got alot stuff in at the UC in chicago for pearl jam last year. my .02.  good luck!

[ritchietom]

I see and understand your point SparkE and you're right I've got to start somewhere and it would be a fantastic memory for our 40th. Nevertheless I'm not sure the guys will want to dig out $500 or more for something that may get confiscated. We thought that nowdays technology could have offered the opportunity to obtain a small/compact taping system for us to take into the MSG without problem providing a decent/not earsbleeding recording of the concert.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

I see and understand your point SparkE and you're right I've got to start somewhere and it would be a fantastic memory for our 40th. Nevertheless I'm not sure the guys will want to dig out $500 or more for something that may get confiscated. We thought that nowdays technology could have offered the opportunity to obtain a small/compact taping system for us to take into the MSG without problem providing a decent/not earsbleeding recording of the concert.

The Edirol R09 can do what you want, and can be disguised as a cell-phone.  Place in your breast pocket, and enjoy. 

T

[ritchietom]

Really? Is it very expensive? Because of me being in NYC 1 or 2 day b4 the concert, would you know any place in NYC where I could go and check it out?
Thx twatts

[Ryan Sims]

Check out B&H Photo in the city.  Nerd's heaven.  The R-09 will run you around $400.

[rePat]

Check out B&H Photo in the city.  Nerd's heaven.  The R-09 will run you around $400.

And its within a few blocks of MSG, 420 9th Ave.  Cool Place!

[saxophoner]

ebay has a few for a bit cheaper, $350... i haven't gotten a recording devince off ebay before but it looks legit.  heres a few of them or check out the yard sale forum
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=edirol+r-09&category0=
most of them say NIB so it'd be like getting it at a store, except 50 bucks cheaper.
good luck +T

[Church-Audio]

ebay has a few for a bit cheaper, $350... i haven't gotten a recording devince off ebay before but it looks legit.  heres a few of them or check out the yard sale forum
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=edirol+r-09&category0=
most of them say NIB so it'd be like getting it at a store, except 50 bucks cheaper.
good luck +T

Yes and No warranty ether.. I would not buy something that expensive from ebay unless it was from an authorized reseller. And I dont know many authorized Roland/ebay sellers.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,68518.msg939736.html#msg939736

[ritchietom]

Thank you guys I will filter through all the info you gave me today and I will get back to you asap.
Thank you again.
 

[stevetoney]

Watchout...before you know it, you'll have $2000 - $4000 invested in the blink of an eye, just like the rest of us!!!   

[stevetoney]

BTW, here's a link with pics to a stealth setup that's about the same size as the setup I was referring to in my previous post.  The mics in this setup are more expensive than the ones I mentioned above, but the same size.  Also, the iriver (in the pictures) or Nomad Jukebox 3 would be a reasonable alternative to the mini-disc player if you wanted to record directly to a hard drive and didn't mind spending $150 or so for the recording device.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,80345.0.html

[ritchietom]

G'morning and thank you stevetoney.
All your msgs were very interesting and gave me a lot of info and tips.
I will start doing a bit of research and try to put together the equipment stevetoney suggested and see what the final price will be. I somehow thought I didn't need to carry around, especially if I have to hide them where the sun doesn't shine  , many more than a small recorder and a pair of stealth mics but it looks like the mics (pretty much "invisible"), the battery box pre-amp and either the mini-disc or Hi-MD are small and compact enough.
Further questions would be:
- Is it easy and straight forward to connect it all together?
- Does it need any set up/formatting?
- Why the mics need a battery box pre-amp?
- Would they work without it? Maybe the quality will be much worse?
- Where would I place the mics for the taping? I've been offered a pair of croakie mics that can easily be hidden and as long as I get a pair of clear lenses glasses (sun glasses would look odd inside MSG  ) I know where to place them.
- Would I receive odd looks from the people around me when trying to connect it all? My friends will be all around me but I'm not sure how paranoid we are about people fiddling with cable and electronic devices around us especially nowdays after 9/11.

Thank you very much for now

[Humbug]

Please pm me your email address; I still have a copy of the "stealth tapers guide" which I started work on 2 years ago and never finished.

Contributions welcome, but off-board.

Edit: email address found, and sent.

[ritchietom]

Great!
Thanks a lot humbug.
I will certainly read this asap.

[stevetoney]

G'morning and thank you stevetoney.
All your msgs were very interesting and gave me a lot of info and tips.

You're welcome!

[Humbug]

3..2..1 Moke posts a comment suggesting you delete the info above after a day or two!

[ritchietom]

Thank you stevetoney. That was really really a usufull piece of information.
I am getting a better idea of this taping hobby.
A whole lot of good tips and suggestions.
I'll have a chat with the friends that will come with me to the concert at the MSG and we will start planning what to do.
I'll check Church Audio eBay shop and the others.
Thank you everyone here....it's a great forum!
I'll be back 

[stevetoney]

3..2..1 Moke posts a comment suggesting you delete the info above after a day or two!

I guess this level of detail regarding stealth isn't cool here, huh?  Next time I'll PM the person.

However, just a question, but I'm curious why this forum doesn't argue for tapers rights?  I don't necessarily know the details of the laws, and I'm sure it's been discussed before so let me know if there's a FAQ addressing this issue, but isn't banning discussions of stealth recording kinda admitting defeat when it comes to the issue of live taping? 

Maybe I've been in the dark, but I've never heard or read anywhere where grabbing a live recording at a concert has been proven to violate any copyright laws until a material loss or damange is established on the part of the copyright owner.  To my knowledge that's NEVER happened in any court in any country.  I thought that the reason we didn't openly tape bands that don't allow taping is simply out of respect for their wishes, but not as a legal requirement. 

Conversely, from a practical perspective, I assumed that people stealth recorded simply to avoid the potential for being hassled since the above seems to be such a misunderstood concept?  Like I said in the earlier email, I'd rather have my equipment safe, than argue with a gorilla and try to teach him about my rights.

Course, if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it and shut up, but if not, then I'd like my rights as a consumer and a taper to be supported by someone out there.  If that someone is not taperssection, then that's fine...but it sure seems like this forum would be a great place for tapers rights to be brought forward. 

In the end though, I don't want to jeopardize any taperssection members' good standing with bands though with this attitude.  I just wish we had a voice somewhere, someplace!!!

[Humbug]

Stevetoney, I am absolutely for the sharing of information.

However, as Moke points out:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,71854.0.html

There may well be people watching what we do, and any info that gives venues / management tips how to look for stealthers should, in my opinion, be deleted after a day or two.

As regards rights, I like your arguments, but I believe there was a trader (I think in Scandinavia) arrested just for trading live shows. I don't any more details though.

Cheers

Alex

[stevetoney]

Stevetoney, I am absolutely for the sharing of information.

However, as Moke points out:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,71854.0.html

OK, I sent Moke a PM...I'll take my posts down or PM them directly to the guy if he wants me to, which it sounds like he will.  No big deal.

There may well be people watching what we do, and any info that gives venues / management tips how to look for stealthers should, in my opinion, be deleted after a day or two.

OK, I understand.  The very last thing on earth I'd ever want is to spoil the party for anyone.

As regards rights, I like your arguments, but I believe there was a trader (I think in Scandinavia) arrested just for trading live shows. I don't any more details though.

 

There's a general misconception worldwide and I think there will always be isolated incidents that challenge our rights...but does that mean we're wrong? 

Regarding individual incidents, details would be nice so they can be put into the right context.  Regarding the arrest you mention, immediate questions make you wonder if the live shows had been commercially released (did they compete with instantlive for example)  What was he trading for? (drugs, gasoline, something for profit).  I wonder if he was convicted of anything. 

[stevetoney]

However, as Moke points out:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,71854.0.html

I didn't wait to hear back from Moke and decided to take the info down.  Thanks for the feedback Humbug.

[greenone]

However, just a question, but I'm curious why this forum doesn't argue for tapers rights?  I don't necessarily know the details of the laws, and I'm sure it's been discussed before so let me know if there's a FAQ addressing this issue, but isn't banning discussions of stealth recording kinda admitting defeat when it comes to the issue of live taping? 

Maybe I've been in the dark, but I've never heard or read anywhere where grabbing a live recording at a concert has been proven to violate any copyright laws until a material loss or damange is established on the part of the copyright owner.  To my knowledge that's NEVER happened in any court in any country.  I thought that the reason we didn't openly tape bands that don't allow taping is simply out of respect for their wishes, but not as a legal requirement. 

The federal law does not require intent of profit or copyright violation, but states may have different laws or none at all. See http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,23206.0.html for the federal and state laws I was able to find.

And while you're in that section, check out Brian Skalinder's post entitled "stealth: tips on sneaking gear inside".

[stevetoney]

I thought that the reason we didn't openly tape bands that don't allow taping is simply out of respect for their wishes, but not as a legal requirement. 

The federal law does not require intent of profit or copyright violation, but states may have different laws or none at all. See http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,23206.0.html for the federal and state laws I was able to find.

And while you're in that section, check out Brian Skalinder's post entitled "stealth: tips on sneaking gear inside".

Thank you very much for clearing this up for me.  It's quite obvious that I was mostly wrong with my statement that is quoted above.  It looks like the best advice is to know the law in the state that you are recording in and proceed accordingly, knowing that you are proceeding at your own risk if you are not in full compliance with the laws of that state.

[greenone]

No prob. The good news is that in New York you have the option of leaving AND getting your money back if they bust you taping...but you'd miss the rest of the show.

[powermonkey]

Stevetoney, I am absolutely for the sharing of information.

However, as Moke points out:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,71854.0.html

OK, I sent Moke a PM...I'll take my posts down or PM them directly to the guy if he wants me to, which it sounds like he will.  No big deal.

There may well be people watching what we do, and any info that gives venues / management tips how to look for stealthers should, in my opinion, be deleted after a day or two.

OK, I understand.  The very last thing on earth I'd ever want is to spoil the party for anyone.

As regards rights, I like your arguments, but I believe there was a trader (I think in Scandinavia) arrested just for trading live shows. I don't any more details though.

 

There's a general misconception worldwide and I think there will always be isolated incidents that challenge our rights...but does that mean we're wrong? 

Regarding individual incidents, details would be nice so they can be put into the right context.  Regarding the arrest you mention, immediate questions make you wonder if the live shows had been commercially released (did they compete with instantlive for example)  What was he trading for? (drugs, gasoline, something for profit).  I wonder if he was convicted of anything. 

I don't know if this is the same case to which you are referring, but I believe an Alanis Morisette fan got busted for trading - not selling - recordings, even of commercially unreleased shows.

[69mako]

Beware, taping is addictive.  Anyone here will tell you that.  But most of all have fun!

[ritchietom]

As suggested by many I am here currently searching and making sure I will know the rules about taping to avoid being kicked out from the venues. Once that's out of the way I will feel better.
Speak to you soon.

[GirthCoquer]

Please pm me your email address; I still have a copy of the "stealth tapers guide" which I started work on 2 years ago and never finished.

Contributions welcome, but off-board.

Edit: email address found, and sent.

Had problems PMing for some reason. Any chance you can send me a copy of this?

-Jeremy
mrfalcon1@hotmail.com

[sml42]

.

[pmonk66]

The security at the Garden is somewhat tight. They are not looking for tape equipment but are more interested in weapons and beverages (booze and such)

If you have a bag, most likely they will ask you to open it up and they will poke through it.

They do have wands but randomly pick people.

It all depends on where you sit, but security presence in the Garden is pretty noticeable but they are looking for people who smoke or stand in the aisle.

IMO - doing a stealth job on your first taping is kind of a drag. Enjoy the show and download it later!

[J]

PM seems to be having some issues at the moment...  Any chance you could email me the guide as well?  Thanks in advance for the help!

-J

theziggens<at>gmail<dot>com