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Author Topic: I like small mics andI can not lie  (Read 9503 times)

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Offline MattD

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2004, 07:30:37 PM »
*ahem*

4021s are smaller! :)
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jpschust

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2004, 09:33:50 PM »
too  bad the dpa's are way overpriced for what they are *put up them dukes* :-)

Offline BC

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2004, 09:55:00 PM »
*ahem*

4021s are smaller! :)


Very true, amen to that!!
     
Not gonna bite on that last comment...     8)  

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jpschust

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2004, 12:14:08 AM »
heheheh all i can think about when i see this thread is that 90's sir mixalot song :-)

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2004, 12:11:33 AM »
too  bad the dpa's are way overpriced for what they are *put up them dukes* :-)

How so? I mean honestly, they havea great detailed sound and tight bass. If you want them to sound like Neumanns you can just throw a wet towel over them. A pretty decent deal, you practically get 2 types of mics for the price of one.  ;D

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Offline MattD

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2004, 11:40:44 AM »
They are - significantly so. However (for better or worse), they're omnis and thus might not fit all of the applications you're looking for. Cardioids seem to be much more flexible. Does DPA even make a card that's the size of the 406x?

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Offline MattD

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2004, 09:52:10 PM »
Omnis pick up sound from all around the capsule, so if you're stealthing in a loud crowd, you'll get a lot of crowd noise. If you're open taping with them, it's tough to run omnis from a section or in a bad room (since you'll get WAY more of the 'room sound' than with other mics).

Cardioids have more directionality, and thus have the ability to cut out some of that. They're not perfect for everything either, but I can count the times I wished I had omnis instead of cards on one hand.

Still, if you just want TINY, those are practically impossible to beat. 406x>batt box>dat might as well be invisible!
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Offline MattD

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2004, 10:03:33 PM »
Quote
getting up close and standing in the center (btwn L and R) takes care of some of those issues, doesn't it?

What you say makes sense, but unfortunately I haven't had that experience yet. Someone else jump in here!
« Last Edit: January 08, 2004, 09:08:13 AM by MattD »
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Offline BC

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2004, 11:56:42 PM »
Quote
Omnis pick up sound from all around the capsule, so if you're stealthing in a loud crowd, you'll get a lot of crowd noise. If you're open taping with them, it's tough to run omnis from a section or in a bad room (since you'll get WAY more of the 'room sound' than with other mics).

getting up close and standing in the center (btwn L and R) takes care of some of those issues, doesn't it?



Getting up in the heart of FOB/DFC does help out with room issues, but does nothing for people yapping away, hooting, and yelling near you. Because of this I really dislike the idea of using omnis for stealthing shows in clubs, try it and you will be amazed at the sounds your mics will pick up, beers clinking, people blabbing away, cash registers, etc... Even just running cardiods ORTF I have heard stuff on the tape that I didn't hear live at the time.

For the person that started this thread, since he/she was looking for mics to use in small clubs I think omnis are not a good idea for that specific situation. If you are stealthing jazz or classical where people stay quiet during the music, they are more amenable, but I still prefer the rear rejection I get using cardioids, since even in these quiet situations, you can still pick up people breathing, coughing, rustling their clothes/programs, and so on. Of course, given no background noises (and hopefully, high SPL's) the little omni mics can sound great especially the DPA 406x's!!

Also, I think it is important to note that these mini mics typically have much less dynamic range than high end "active" capsule mics, if you are recording music with wide dynamic contrasts this can play a big part in the quality of your recording. I did some classical stuff with CSB>D8 that came out pretty poorly. Due to the high noise level of the mics and deck, the soft parts are very undefined and actually had some audible hiss. Now, this past summer when I taped the Chicago Symphony at Ravinia: DPA 4022>V3>Laptop at 24 bit, it was a whole different story!! I ran levels VERY conservatively (couldn't check levels during the music) but due to the the added dynamic range of this rig, the music still sounded great, with no apparent noise/hiss, even after some serious normalizing!! (I'm talking +15 dB or so) Just something else to keep in mind, in addition to size and polar pattern, dynamic range of your mic can have a noticeable effect on the quality of your recording.

Peace out-
Ben





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Offline Sean Gallemore

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2004, 12:45:09 AM »
Quote
Omnis pick up sound from all around the capsule, so if you're stealthing in a loud crowd, you'll get a lot of crowd noise. If you're open taping with them, it's tough to run omnis from a section or in a bad room (since you'll get WAY more of the 'room sound' than with other mics).

getting up close and standing in the center (btwn L and R) takes care of some of those issues, doesn't it?

depends, some bands have rowdy pits in the desribed area.  And sometimes the stacks are too far apart...

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2004, 08:27:36 AM »
this past summer when I taped the Chicago Symphony at Ravinia: DPA 4022>V3>Laptop at 24 bit

I used to go to Ravinia regularly back when I lived in those parts.  Was this open taping?  With a stand (or hanging, or...)?  Where did you run?  Which performance?  How'd it turn out?
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Offline BC

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2004, 05:44:14 PM »
this past summer when I taped the Chicago Symphony at Ravinia: DPA 4022>V3>Laptop at 24 bit

I used to go to Ravinia regularly back when I lived in those parts.  Was this open taping?  With a stand (or hanging, or...)?  Where did you run?  Which performance?  How'd it turn out?

No open taping for this one, it was stealth all the way. I am sure the CSO has a no recording policy. Easy to get gear in because of the whole picnic area. For people not familiar with Ravinina you can buy lawn tix and bring in all the picnic stuff you want in. No view of the stage from these seats but they have speakers out on the lawn so you can hear what's going on.

Anyway, I was way off to the right side, 2nd row for set 1 and 2nd set moved back with my parents to midway in the pavilion. 1st set I wore the hat, 2nd set since there were so many empty seats around us I just put my packpack on the seat next to me and set the hat on top of it.  It was good to be closer for set 1, all the crickets start going bonkers at dusk then chill out post-set 1.

Sound came out really nice for being that far off center, not the nice wide precise imaging one would get in the sweet spot but very natural and transparent sound. Gotta love taping real instruments and not a PA system!!  :)  

I forgot what was the 1st set, Ravel's Bolero 2nd set...

Would be glad to offer this up in the future if anyone is interested, will be too busy studying for qualifying exams for the next 2 weeks but after that I can get it out...

Take care,
Ben






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Offline BC

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2004, 05:48:58 PM »
so when would omnis be optimal..?


Some possibilities that come to mind:

On stage

In a nice-sounding venue where you are allowed to set up where you need to  (would be great to hang em' from the ceiling or space them on the floor)

Outdoor show (need to consider the possibilities of people yakking away near the mics, especially FOB)

Ben

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Offline George

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2004, 06:51:59 PM »
What about this site: http://www.microphonemadness.com/

Some of those mics are insanely small.  Wonder how they sound.
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Offline BC

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Re:I like small mics andI can not lie
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2004, 06:56:04 PM »
What about this site: http://www.microphonemadness.com/

Some of those mics are insanely small.  Wonder how they sound.


Probably not so good, not to generalize to all of them, but the sennheiser mini omnis (the only ones I peeped at)  were spec'd at:

Signal to noise ratio: 65dB, 1khz at 1pa

That's not too good...


Ben


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