Topic: DAT transfer to CDR

[Mark]

I have a Tascam DA-20-mkII and want to convert DAT to CDR via a Philips stand alone CDR burner.  I want to accomplish this via digital coax cable.  I can not get a signal to the Philips CDR.  I did the power up SCMS avoidance option and plugged my digital coax cable from the DAT to the Philips.  

It was digi coax out on the DAT, and digi coax input on the Philips.  I then went RCA output to my reciever to hear playback.  I can not get levels on the Philips.  I did set the input to digi coax, but still nothing.  

Anyone using this config?  

What do you do to transfer  DAT>CDR true digital??

Mark

[Mark]

Cable not proven.  Picked up a 3' HOSA digi coax for this application since the 6' is in my gear bag.  

Not getting any type of levels on the Philips.  Yes, going digi out on TASCAM (with SCMS power up option off), and digi coax in on the Philips.

Any recommendations?

On Philips, using Record Manual mode.

[Brian Skalinder]

Cable not proven.
[snip]
Any recommendations?

Try a known-good cable for starters.
Is the digi-out of the DA20 known-good?
Same for digi-in on the Philips?
Is the Philips supposed to provide analog output while it's recording digital input?

[goose]

If the DAT is recorded at 48k, you will need to set the CD recorder to recognize it.  On the Tascam units, it is the Digital Direct setting or something like that.  I recommend taking a look at the Philips manual - perhaps in the "troubleshooting" section?

[Mark]

The digital out on the Tascam is not proven.  Unit bought used.  
Philips bought new, digital in never used until now.  Analog transfers worked fine on the CDR when I record at 48kHz on my D7.  The Tascam does have a switch to go from 48 to 44.1.  Would that make a difference?  I thought I had it on 48, but will research the Philips manual to see what it accepts or does with different rates.  

What type of digital coax do you recommend if the HOSA isn't up to par?

[John R]

the 44.1/48 are the recording rates. the tascam will send whatever's been written to the tape.  as mentioned before, the phillips may be in digital direct mode and is seeking only 44.1.  see if you are able to change that setting.  any ratshak digi cable will do.  did you record the original?  if so, try to send signal between the da20 and the original device.

jr

[Mark]

Yes, I did record the original.  I will try the DA-20 to my D7 to check if signal is passing.  

All my tapes should be 48kHz I believe, recorded using SP mode on D7, as well as the 48kHz setting on my UA-5.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

If you get the DA20>Phillips working, that would be great!  And totally digital.  

However, there are certain problems related to DAE, Digital Audio Extraction, in that it relies on the CDR being burned, and then read again without errors in order for the transfer to your computer to be "bit perfect".

You may be better off getting a soundcard and transferring that way:  DAT>Soundcard>HD>CDWave>WAV>CDR.

But DAE is accepted in the ETREE community, and I'm not going to complain!  

Good luck with your transfers!

Terry

[Mark]

I was able to pass signal from the DA-20 to the D7.
This proved to me that the Digital Output on the DA-20 is ok, and that the cable I am using is ok.  

I still can not get a signal on the Philips CDR.  I am still working on that.  I did select a digital external source, but still nothing.

Yes, a digital soundcard would be nice, but until that day comes, I need to work with what I got.  Thank you kindly for the ideas.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Dang...  Sounds like that digi-in on the Phillips isn't working...

Or maybe it can only input 44.1???  

Terry

[bkirby]

Most of the Phillips CDRs do not have SRC (Sample Rate Converter) built in them. You will probably have to use another piece of equipment to convert the 48kHz to 44.1kHz. The best thing to do is try and record just you talking for a few seconds on the end of a tape in 44.1kHz. Try and transfer that to the Phillips and see if it will recognize that signal. If not, the input is not functioning properly.
Hope this helps...
Brad K.

[Mark]

My Owner's Manual makes no reference to 44.1k.  I called Philips and they want a $15 fee for helping over the phone.  I will try to test out using a recording of 44.1 to see what happens, along with stopping by a reputable stereo shop to see what they can tell me.

[John R]

did you tru sending a signal from the d7 to the burner?

jr

[bkirby]

If your manual makes no reference to the internal Sample Rate Conversion, it is not included in your particular unit. Thus, you will either need an outboard conversion unit, or just run analog out of the DA-20 to the Phillips. Let us know what you find...
Brad K.

[Mark]

I did not run the D7 to the Burner to check for signal due to SCMS.  The DA-20 power up option allows me to avoid the SCMS.  I did run the D7 to the Burner via analog, so it works that way.  

[Cooker]

i have a behringer src1000 ( i think that's the model number) sample rate converter that can take aes, cox and optical in, and split it out to all 3 outputs, at 44.1K. resamples everything from 22-96K and spits out 44.1 - and strips SCMS. I'll sell it to you if you want, this may be an easy solution for you. PM me if you are interested.

[Mark]

Please send me a PM with all the info.

[Mark]

Did an analog transfer of the DA-20 to the Philips CDR and it worked out well.  Still looking into what the Philips accepts and if it truely only is 44.1.  I am going to set up my mics>pre>dat and see if the philips will accept what I record.  Also, went to an electronics chain store Circ**t C**y and asked what their stand alone burners digital input accepts for a sample rate, and the salesboy nor his manager could answer my question.  Going to call Philips again tomorrow to ask.  I feel I shouldn't be charged since it is not in the manual and not really a tech support question.  We shall see.  I'll post more as I learn more.

[John R]

mark, how about running the ua5 right into the phillips and record right to cd?

jr

[Mark]

John, I haven't tried this.  
Please explain this to me...........Tascam DAT>UA-5 via digital cable (with setting at 44.1).  Then UA-5>Philips via Digital coax.  Is this what you are suggesting?

How would this override the 48kHz>44.1?

I am assuming that the Philips only accepts a 44.1 rate.

[Mark]

Sorry Moke, too lazy to read the rules of this board and if I can post corporate names with a slam.  lol.  I only went there since I know they use to sell Philips, and it was on my way home from work to the booze shop.  Had to pick up my his & hers Vodka (regular and Citrus for the wife).  They were clueless, which wasn't a surprise.

[Gordon]

I had a philliaps a few years ago.  it sucked ass.  it will not clone if the dat is at 48.  you have to go rca in.  if it is at 44 it will (I think, it's been a while)  anyway it was a piece of shit.  take it back and if you are gonna use a standalone get a tascam or hhb.

[John R]

John, I haven't tried this.  
Please explain this to me...........Tascam DAT>UA-5 via digital cable (with setting at 44.1).  Then UA-5>Philips via Digital coax.  Is this what you are suggesting?

How would this override the 48kHz>44.1?

I am assuming that the Philips only accepts a 44.1 rate.

make the recording directly onto the cdr.  mics>pre>phillips to see if it takes.  try 44.1 and 48.  like gordon said, basically you bought a consumer unit.  return it and get a tascam, hhb, or one of the sony's.

jr

[Gordon]

like gordon said, basically you bought a consumer unit.  return it and get a tascam, hhb, or one of the sony's.

jr

I had a lower end sony consumer one.  it sucked worse than the philliaps.  it would put track marks in when ever there was silince or low vol.  the first show I did on it was a cowboy junkies show which began with Margo talking.  my first track ended up being 10 tracks or so.  you could not trun this off.  I took it back after a day and got a TDK that worked well unitll I got a new computer and audiophile.

[John R]

like gordon said, basically you bought a consumer unit.  return it and get a tascam, hhb, or one of the sony's.

jr

I had a lower end sony consumer one.  it sucked worse than the philliaps.  it would put track marks in when ever there was silince or low vol.  the first show I did on it was a cowboy junkies show which began with Margo talking.  my first track ended up being 10 tracks or so.  you could not trun this off.  I took it back after a day and got a TDK that worked well unitll I got a new computer and audiophile.

should have said cdrw33.  definitely not a sony consumer unit.

jr

[Mark]

Unfortunately the Philips was purchased over 3 yeards ago.  It served it's purpose while I had it, and treated me well.  Finally upgraded to the DA-20 so I got the bright idea to do true digital transfers.  Working the bugs out is all I suppose.  Live and learn.  I will post what I find out, going to play tonight.

[Todd R]

Most of the Phillips CDRs do not have SRC (Sample Rate Converter) built in them. You will probably have to use another piece of equipment to convert the 48kHz to 44.1kHz. The best thing to do is try and record just you talking for a few seconds on the end of a tape in 44.1kHz. Try and transfer that to the Phillips and see if it will recognize that signal. If not, the input is not functioning properly.
Hope this helps...
Brad K.

This sounds hard to believe to me.  I had and still have one of Philips earliest CD burners, the cdr870.  I also had for awhile and sold a Marantz pro burner (cd630??) that was made for marantz by Philips.  Both had sample rate converters built in.  It seems to me to be a pretty important basic function, and seems odd that Philips would have chosen to delete the SRC function on later models.

Both of these burners had a switch to choose analog input, digital coax input, or digital optical input.  Be sure you've chosen the digital coax input.  Also, the Philips deck automatically reclock every signal to 44.1k, including both incoming 44.1k signals and 48k signals.  The Marantz unit had a choice for the re-clocking option and also had an option for a 44.1k direct mode (as someone mentioned) that would not reclock a 44.1k stream, but wouldn't recognize a 48k stream.  Be sure not to use this direct mode if you are sending a 48k stream.

[Mark]

I am definately sending a 48k stream from the DA-20.  My Philiips is a CDR775 if that helps.  I made sure my EXT Source was set to Digital Coax.  I am not aware of (yet) how to chage the re-clocking option.  I am going to pass a 44.1 stream to it tonight to see if the Philips recognizes that.  

I have 5 different record modes, and set mine on Manual.  

When I ran a 48k stream via analog, the Philips had no trouble, it is via digital that I am having the problem of not getting any signal/levels.

[Stumptown Matt]

[quote author=Mark link=board=23;threadid=15155;start=30#msg190350 date=1078941882  

 

When I ran a 48k stream via analog, the Philips had no trouble, it is via digital that I am having the problem of not getting any signal/levels.

When sending an analog signal it will not matter what sample rate you used.  Sample rate will only matter when transfering using a digital signal. Hook the UA-5 up to the CDR with a coax digi or optical digi cable and set the sample rate to 48.  Try to record.  If it does not work try it at 44.1.  If it records then you have found your problem and you will need an external downsampling device.

[bkirby]

Most of the Phillips CDRs do not have SRC (Sample Rate Converter) built in them. You will probably have to use another piece of equipment to convert the 48kHz to 44.1kHz. The best thing to do is try and record just you talking for a few seconds on the end of a tape in 44.1kHz. Try and transfer that to the Phillips and see if it will recognize that signal. If not, the input is not functioning properly.
Hope this helps...
Brad K.

This sounds hard to believe to me.  I had and still have one of Philips earliest CD burners, the cdr870.  I also had for awhile and sold a Marantz pro burner (cd630??) that was made for marantz by Philips.  Both had sample rate converters built in.  It seems to me to be a pretty important basic function, and seems odd that Philips would have chosen to delete the SRC function on later models.

Both of these burners had a switch to choose analog input, digital coax input, or digital optical input.  Be sure you've chosen the digital coax input.  Also, the Philips deck automatically reclock every signal to 44.1k, including both incoming 44.1k signals and 48k signals.  The Marantz unit had a choice for the re-clocking option and also had an option for a 44.1k direct mode (as someone mentioned) that would not reclock a 44.1k stream, but wouldn't recognize a 48k stream.  Be sure not to use this direct mode if you are sending a 48k stream.

    Guess I should have stated "most" Philips burners do't have SRC. Just stating problems we had with two Philips burners (different model #s) that friends  had owned a few years back (wish I could remember the model numbers). After many different trials, we finally contacted Philips about this and they said that the two burners that friends owned did not have built in SRC. Apparently, some of their models did, and some didn't. If I remember correctly, all of our problems occured in about 1999. I have no idea where Mark's model fits in. Upon asking Philips about this (back then), they said if it does not say anthing about SRC in the original manual, it was not included. I have no idea if they all have them now. As far as the pro Marantz burner goes, all "pro" burners that I have heard of have built-in SRC (of course, there may be exceptions I don't know about from years back).
     As far as running an analog signal out and then back into the burner by analog inputs, of course the internal AD will set it directly to 44.1kHz.
     I will try and do more research about the Philips burner's model numbers and see what I can find. Seems like something like this should be stated somewhere in the FAQ section for future questions...
Brad K.
P.S. Happy belated B-day Todd...

[Mojowill]

CDR's are recorded with 44.1  So you cant use  a digital direct line if your DAT is anything but 44.1

[stvgray]

This is probably too simple an answer, but I'll offer it just in case.

On my Phillips CD burner, you have to select the digital input. You have to punch the Source buttion to go through the options (illuminated on the LCD screen) of digital, optical, and analog. If you're on the wrong one, you won't see any signal showing up on the level meters. You would need to be on digital to use the coax input.

I don't know if your Philips is like mine, but if so, maybe this will help.

[Mark]

Here is what happened last night.  Ran mics>Wmod UA-5 at 44.1>Philips CDR775 and did not get a signal.  Yes, it should have been set to the digital input mode.  I am going to try same thing to check my work tonight, but I didn't get any levels on the Philips.  The record level was at 0db, so something should have shown up.  Sounds like my Digital Input is bad on the Philips?  It was never used until the other night.  

[John R]

bummer.  mark looks like you've exhausted every scenario, time for new burner.

jr

[Mark]

Yeah, not sure what I am going to do now...............Digital Soundcard, JB3..............who knows.  I am still going to pound this one out though and see what I might be able to, or not able to find out.

FYI folks, it is a Philips CDR775.

[Mark]

Recorded a local band at 44.1 and still nothing going to the Philips.  Must be a bad digital input on the CDR.  Going to test the TASCAM out on a buddy's Philips to see if it works.  Going to run both 48 & 44.1 on his to see what happens.

[busknuckle]

Here's some info I cut and pasted from here: http://www.techtronics.com/uk/shop/611-philips-cdr775-recordable-cd-players.html

Main features

Dual Deck Audio CD-Recorder
Two separate CD decks (Recording + playback)
Double speed & Listen mode recording (disc)
2-disc simultaneous / random playback
Separate outs for CDR and CD (digital / analogue)
3 CD text features (recording, input & editing)
CD deck plays unfinalised RW discs
Sample Rate Conversion (12-56 kHz)
Direct Line Recording (DLR)
Records HQ-CD format (Via DLR only)
Analogue + digital (separate channel) record level
Continuous calibration (Running OPC)
Max. 99-track program on both decks
CD Sync auto start recording from all sources (disc)
Standby (via RC) + hard on/off
Music calendar
Easy log (Menu controlled user interface)
High quality starbust FTD (display)
Auto (un) finalise
Erasing per track, selection of last tracks whole disc
lntroscan
Tray blocking (dealer function)
Remote control

Connectors  Analogue audio in/CDR and CD  
 Digital audio in/CDR and CD  
 Optical in


General
System CD digital audio (Dual deck audio Recorder + Player)
Number of Channels 2 (stereo)
Applicable discs CD, CD-R, CD-RW
Power supply AC 230V(/00)
Operating Temp. 5-35°C
Weight 4 kg
Dimensions 435(W)x305(D)x88(H) mm

Audio
Frequency response 20Hz-22.05kHz
Playback S/N 100dB
Playback dynamic range 95dB
Playback THD 88dB
Recording S/N Analogue 98dB
Recording S/N Digital equal to source
Recording dynamic range 92dB
Recording THD Quality 85dB
Headphones 0-3Vrms/8-2000 ohm

Output
1x Analog line o/p CDR(+CD) 2Vrms ?dB
1x Analog line o/p CD 2Vrms ?dB
1x Digital coaxial o/p CDR(+CD) 0.5vpp/75ohm
1x Digital coaxial output CD 0.5vpp/ohm

Input
Direct line rec. (bypass SRC) 44.1kHz ?00ppm.
1x Digital coaxial input (SRC) 12 - 56 kHz /0.5 vrms /75ohm
1x Digital optical input (SRC) 12 - 56 kHz
1x Analogue input 500mVrms/50kohm=0dB

Recording functions
Recording on CD-R & CD-RW consumer audio discs
Recording from internal & external sources
Single and double speed recording (disc)
Auto Start Recording
Multi track erase (CD-RW disc)
Soft mute insert function
Erase disc (CD-RW disc)
Auto finalise / unfinalise disc (CD-RW disc)
Manual / Auto track increment
Remaining recording time display
Double speed finalising (writing TOC)
SCMS (Serial Copy Management System)
Auto analogue switch for protected tracks
RID Code Recorder Unique Identifier

Playback functions
Plays all Audio CDs
Simultaneous playback (recorder + player)
Introscan - Pause - Stop
Random playback from 2 discs
Direct track selection
Track selection with easy jog
Search forward/reverse
Repeat (all/1-track)
Program play (99 tracks from 2 discs)
Time display switching
Permanent text option


According to that...your cdr775 should be able to perform sample rate conversion (src). Whether or not the info is ALL correct...I can't say.

Now one other thing I see is that you have an optical in on the burner. You might be able to borrow or buy a coax>optical convertor, and send the optical signal in to see if that would work. Hope it works out for you.

[jimmc]

Mark,
I have that Rat Shack digicoax > optical converter that I bought that I am not currently using. I'll bring it with me out to your place. Oh, I didnt cut up the plug on the end of the wall wart, so you can still use AC instead of the 9v battery harness that I made for it. Maybe going optical in will fix this for ya.
+T to the good suggestion above.