Topic: how to listen to 24/48 properly?

[bonghitwillie]

if i record or d/L 24/48 or better qual, can i play it back on the recorder or computer thru the analog mini jack into a stereo system or headphones and get the full quality?

[bonghitwillie]

i should also add... what if i d/L 24/48 or better flac and play it back with foobar. am i getting the full quality?

[Todd R]

If you play 24/48 files through your computer (e.g., through foobar), or if you play them back via your 24 bit recorder, you will get 24/48 quality.  So yes, the short answer is yes, you will get the "full quality".  (Or at least, it seems likely.  I guess any given recorder might only have a 16 bit DAC onboard and would truncate your files, but that seems unlikely.)

That said, a 24/48 file that undergoes a high quality dither routine to bring it down to 16bits and is re-sampled to 44.1k may sound better depending on your playback chain than the 24/48 original.  Maybe even downgrade that statement to a proper dither routine, and not even a high quality one.

If you dither and resample the 24/48 to 16/44.1 and then burn onto a CDR, a decent CD player hooked up to your stereo system may likely sound better than 24/48 coming out of a 1/8" analog output from your computer.  And probably much more likely will sound better than 24/48 coming out of your (esp handheld) 24bit recorder, since playback on these devices isn't really a priority at all, so it likely sounds pretty bad on many recorders.  And all that goes much moreso if you have an outboard DAC getting fed a digital signal from your CD player.

So all said, getting the best playback experience matters much more about what the playback system is, rather than if it is playing back 24/48.

Setting up things to playback at 24/48 is fine, but pay a lot more attention to how it is playing back.  Lots of threads about that in the playback section of ts.com.  There a plenty of USB DACs you could incorporate (eg., Audioengine D1 and the Dragonfly, to mention 2 of dozens), or you could go with something like the Squeezebox or other methods of wireless music streaming.  And I'd say if you don't have the money to set up a playback system that incorporates 24/48, I'd focus much more on a system set up for 16bit playback (eg., a CD or DVD player with decent reviews on sound) and translate your 24/48 material to 16/44.1 burned to a CDR rather than just blindly playing 24/48 on what might be a crappy playback chain.

[yates7592]

In my view you have 2 main options to play back 24/48 files and get the best out of them:

1. Burn the 24/48 (or 24/96) files to DVD-V or DVD-A disc, then go from your DVD-V / DVD-A player (digi out) to digi in on a good DAC (this will by-pass the crappy internal DAC in most DVD players), then RCA line out to active speakers or your hi-fi amp/speakers (or headphones). I know a lot think burning discs is the dinosaur way of listening to music, but I spend all day on a computer, I don't then want to spend all evening on one as well! I also find it a more convenient way to listen to music (and generally a better listening experience).

2. As others have said, play the files in Foobar on your mac/pc (make sure you select 24 bit output in Foobar), with usb out to a good DAC, then line out to active speakers or good headphones (with good headphone amp).

Hope this helps.

[Gutbucket]

I've no quality issues with direct playback from any of my recorders (R09, R44, DR2d, DR680).  All of those exept the DR2d have digital outputs which make the comparison irrelivant if using the same external DAC or digital input on a receiver, but I also find the analog output on these recorders perfectly capable and less variable than the same from a computer and use analog playback from those machines regularly.  The computer can be worse through a mediocre built-in soundcard and the headphone output, beter with a good dedicated soundcard, or identical via the same quality outboard DAC.

The guidelines others have posted for getting the best from computer playback are all good ones.

I think the deeper issue is that recorder playback is simple, straight-forward and can sound fine, but may not be as convienent as playback from a computer or disc player for most people.

[edit- driving some headphones directly with the analog output stage in these recorders may be sub-optimal, but feeding a headphone or speaker amplifier is an easy load for any of them]

[dnsacks]

I recently started converting highres stuff to 24/48 apple lossless.  This will play back natively on ipads/iphones, etc.  Would be interesting if somebody with an AppleTV digitally feeding an av receiver/dac could confirm whether appleTV passes the 24/48 signal as well.  Unfortunately, ipads/iphones don't recognize 24/96 apple lossless files.  i've been converting to apple lossless using foobar2000

[db]

if i record or d/L 24/48 or better qual, can i play it back on the recorder or computer thru the analog mini jack into a stereo system or headphones and get the full quality?

unlikely that you'll be getting "full quality" via minijack. they're very bad > complete shit.

maybe check out a decent usb/firewire interface.

[F.O.Bean]

I know I know but I ONLY listen to 16bit flacs on my PC and more often I listen to mp3s on my iPod classic when I'm in the car as a passenger. I am saving all of my HI-RES 24bit flacs/waves for when I can afford to upgrade my playback system and take full advantage of the HI-RES stuff

That ain't Gina happen to AFTER my recording setup is complete, if that EVER happens

[Gutbucket]

unlikely that you'll be getting "full quality" via minijack. they're very bad > complete shit.

That's more than a bit hyperbolistic, isn't it?
 
Somehow members here are able to make great recordings through minijack inputs every day.  Why should playing back those recordings through one be vastly more compromising?

Agreed that minijacks aren't my connector of choice, but they work fine if you keep them clean and firmly connected.  The quality constraint is less likely to be the jack than the output circuitry feeding it.

[hi and lo]

unlikely that you'll be getting "full quality" via minijack. they're very bad > complete shit.

That's more than a bit hyperbolistic, isn't it?
 
Somehow members here are able to make great recordings through minijack inputs every day.  Why should playing back those recordings through one be vastly more compromising?

Agreed that minijacks aren't my connector of choice, but they work fine if you keep them clean and firmly connected.  The quality constraint is less likely to be the jack than the output circuitry feeding it.

I read it in the context of poor soundcard DAC and that the user should consider a digital interface (with presumably much better DAC).

3.5mm TRS isn't my favorite connector by any means, but a connector is a connector when functioning correctly.

[db]

unlikely that you'll be getting "full quality" via minijack. they're very bad > complete shit.

That's more than a bit hyperbolistic, isn't it?
 
Somehow members here are able to make great recordings through minijack inputs every day.  Why should playing back those recordings through one be vastly more compromising?

Agreed that minijacks aren't my connector of choice, but they work fine if you keep them clean and firmly connected.  The quality constraint is less likely to be the jack than the output circuitry feeding it.

i'm prone to realistic hyperbole.

as for recordings made via 3.5mm stereo inputs; they're not all equal. i'm guessing that what's used in a decent recorder is way better than the garbage that is stuck into an macbook or dell machine... where the audio-out is an afterthought rather than an integral part of the machine. but, there's only one way to know; crank it up with no signal and listen to what happens.

the question here was about  full quality. if i wanted to be a real prick about it, i'd tell him to crank up his turntable.

[Craig T]

With Beats Audio™ on board, the richest, most dynamic sound on a laptop is at your fingertips.

 

[Gutbucket]

With Beats Audio™ on board, the richest, most dynamic sound on a laptop is at your fingertips.

 

..unfortunately leaving your ears rather jealous of your fingers.

[jlykos]

as for recordings made via 3.5mm stereo inputs; they're not all equal. i'm guessing that what's used in a decent recorder is way better than the garbage that is stuck into an macbook or dell machine... where the audio-out is an afterthought rather than an integral part of the machine. but, there's only one way to know; crank it up with no signal and listen to what happens.

There's some truth to this. My computer's (Lenovo T400) minijack output is simply awful with TONS of self noise. That's probably the main reason why I asked for an Audioquest Dragonfly. If you are listening to loud rock music, however, the self noise is far less apparent than when listening to a well-recorded jazz album. But the cable itself should not be a showstopper; my Moon Audio Silver Dragon 1/8" cables will hold their own against any interconnect in any format.

[page]

as for recordings made via 3.5mm stereo inputs; they're not all equal. i'm guessing that what's used in a decent recorder is way better than the garbage that is stuck into an macbook or dell machine... where the audio-out is an afterthought rather than an integral part of the machine. but, there's only one way to know; crank it up with no signal and listen to what happens.

There's some truth to this. My computer's (Lenovo T400) minijack output is simply awful with TONS of self noise.

my macbook isn't sterling. The single best thing I did to improve my computer audio was invest in a decent DAC.

[eman]

Here's a related question: can you get some kind of wireless interface that won't kill the benefits of playing high resolution files? My setup right now involves a lappy on the coffee table, added shelf underneath for UA-5, optical cable from lappy to UA-5, RCA to stereo across the room (20' of cable). I feel like that cable run is killing any benefits but I want to keep the laptop on the table and the stereo over there. Also looking at a new receiver with optical in and a long optical cable.

[Todd R]

I'm not sure what all the options are, but a Slim Devices Squeezebox plays 24/48 flacs natively (along with many other audio formats) and they generally have very good on-board D/A conversion. They allow you to wirelessly stream 24/48 over your home network, for playback at your stereo.  I've got both a Squeezebox Ver 2 and a Squeezebox Duet. 

They are discontinued now, but if you keep an eye out, you can get one (Ver 2, Ver 3, Classic, Duet) for under $100, maybe even $50-65 or so shipped.  Don't get the older Ver 1, and I'm not sure about the Squeezebox Touch or other models, but the ones I have listed should work fine. 

You also can get an app to control them from your iPhone/iPad and I imagine that Droid's would have a similar app.

[db]

as for recordings made via 3.5mm stereo inputs; they're not all equal. i'm guessing that what's used in a decent recorder is way better than the garbage that is stuck into an macbook or dell machine... where the audio-out is an afterthought rather than an integral part of the machine. but, there's only one way to know; crank it up with no signal and listen to what happens.

There's some truth to this. My computer's (Lenovo T400) minijack output is simply awful with TONS of self noise.

my macbook isn't sterling. The single best thing I did to improve my computer audio was invest in a decent DAC.

yeah, i found my friend a maudio fw410 for cheap on cl. was noticeably better than her crapple headphone out... she's just spitting out mp3s too.

[Gutbucket]

Laptop minijack output quality varies wildly IME.  The Dell I'm typing this on is terrible.  The old Compaq it replaced was amazingly good.  Not as good as USB(S/PDIF) > quality DAC, but good enough for serious listening and mixing decisions, on-par with the direct output from my recorders.

[jlykos]

Here's a related question: can you get some kind of wireless interface that won't kill the benefits of playing high resolution files? My setup right now involves a lappy on the coffee table, added shelf underneath for UA-5, optical cable from lappy to UA-5, RCA to stereo across the room (20' of cable). I feel like that cable run is killing any benefits but I want to keep the laptop on the table and the stereo over there. Also looking at a new receiver with optical in and a long optical cable.

Audioengine D2. It has received great reviews and supposedly sounds the same as the highly regarded Audioengine D1. USB and Toslink inputs on one unit and a wireless receiver with RCA and Toslink outputs.

http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-D2

[eman]

Thanks for the suggestions. Then I can eliminate the UA-5 and also use my phone with 30 gig card. My Droid came with a FLAC player- nice. I think this is one of the best answers for the original poster as well. 

Also, for the OP, a good sativa and a comfy chair also make for a better "high" def listening experience

[db]

Here's a related question: can you get some kind of wireless interface that won't kill the benefits of playing high resolution files? My setup right now involves a lappy on the coffee table, added shelf underneath for UA-5, optical cable from lappy to UA-5, RCA to stereo across the room (20' of cable). I feel like that cable run is killing any benefits but I want to keep the laptop on the table and the stereo over there. Also looking at a new receiver with optical in and a long optical cable.

see if you can do a blind test with 2 different lengths. there's someone in the world who loves you enough to assist.

[eman]

Good to know. Now to the Dither Noise Store (hope they have free samples!)

[eman]

Got outbid on a Squeezebox Duet at $160. Were there any ts-ers in on the bidding?