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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: phonophobie on September 27, 2004, 07:36:04 AM

Title: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: phonophobie on September 27, 2004, 07:36:04 AM
Hi !

i am searching for a nice portable recorder (md/whatever) to record mostly sounds from nature.
i hope there are some people here, who do same things like me...

I don´t have that much money these days - so i was looking at the more budget ones, and heard about the hi-md´s ... i guess these are not the best when i comes to good microphon preamps etc.. but i like the fact that hi-md can record in uncompressed pcm format. However i don´t know much about them, so any comments and recommendations would be very welcome!

If there is a alternative to (hi)-md recorders please let me know! But, remember i don´t have the money for the BIG ones.

btw.: i currently use OKM2 Microphones, which are a bit noisy but they are ok for the price. Maybe i pick up better ones later..

and i just found a site where they sell portable preamps:
http://www.microphonemadness.com/categories/preamplifiers_stereo.html

what do you think about those?


hope you can help a little. afterall i am not That experienced...
cheers  ;D
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: twatts (pants are so over-rated...) on September 27, 2004, 10:50:00 AM
Go with a Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 3 (if you can find one).

Terry

Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: phonophobie on September 27, 2004, 03:56:17 PM
thanx!
it does not have a mic-input right?
otherwise it looks not bad, but how do you use it with mic´s ?
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: F.O.Bean on September 27, 2004, 03:59:30 PM
it has mic in and line in in the same jack, also, the optical in is there too, its def a versatile input :)

BUT, id run line in and get some line transformers which would get you sufficient gain and make up for running line in instead of mic in :)
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: phonophobie on September 27, 2004, 04:37:19 PM
ah  :) ok i will have closer look at this jb3 thing. Thanks for suggestions !!!

btw: i´m glad i found this nice forum here  :-*
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings" [ jb3 - the one and only ? ]
Post by: phonophobie on September 27, 2004, 05:52:33 PM
okaaaaaaaaaaaaay ! i did a little search on this forum here and noticed that everybody like the jb3. Well i am completly new to this units, since the only recorder i ever had was a simple sony md .... hope you have the nerve to answer some more questions  ;D

-are there any disadvantages about the jb3 ?
-is this the only recorder that can record *wav files ? or is it just the best for the price ?
-when was that thing released - it´s hard to find it in stores - is it a older one ?
-any good reviews outhere?
-is there anything i should check out before buying a jb3 ? maybe firmware of older ones ? anything that i should check, when buying it second hand maybe ...
-are you using it mostly with a preamp ( i would like to record silent things too )

hmm... guess thats enough for now


Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: Zaphod on September 27, 2004, 06:13:11 PM
Have you browsed the NJB3 FAQs yet?

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=14;action=display;threadid=16338

It is the only unit that currently records to .wav that is reliable. And yes it has been discontinued so you have to try and find a refurb off of eBay.
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: phonophobie on September 27, 2004, 07:19:05 PM
great! thanks a lot !

i guess i will go for a JB  :D
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: dklein on September 27, 2004, 11:19:26 PM
you will need a pre for the jb3.  The mic input setting is unusable because it severely rolls off the high frequencies.
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: InfiniteOhms on October 08, 2004, 06:24:40 PM
i'd definately recomend having a preamp for the jb3 ... but line transformers might do a good job, i dont have any experaince with them. But if you can afford it, get a preamp.
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: phonophobie on October 09, 2004, 11:47:31 AM
just received my jb3 :)

so i am just looking for some infos about it here.

btw.: is it normal that some audiotracks are on the hd when it´s new?

Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: johnw on October 09, 2004, 02:11:07 PM
Yes it comes pre-installed that way.
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: phonophobie on October 09, 2004, 05:03:23 PM
ok. thanks. i just wanted to get sure that this is a new / unused unit...

well .. i have the jb just for a couple of hours now, but i think i need a preamp, since i have to boost levels +48 always!
i connected 2 mics on "Line IN" of jb3, and recorded some sounds.

first thing i noticed when boosting in-levels was a high noisefloor.
a highpitched sound and humming stuff...

i also did firmware update and installed this new software called " nomad explorer "
i transfered those recordings from jb to pc via usb and opened it in sound forge ( audio editor )

afterall those recordings are useless  :-\

i hope i get better results with a micpre or something? i am no expert about these stuff, so any help would be very welcome...
i guess i could also use a micpre with build in A/D converters and use optical in on jb3, for even better results- right?

are there any tips for doing better recordings sofar?

thanks!
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: F.O.Bean on October 09, 2004, 07:18:44 PM
for the best results, hands down, get a pre/ad all in one box if possible, you really need that digital in, it does wonders ;D
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: phonophobie on October 09, 2004, 07:33:46 PM
ok. Is there a small one for less then 200€ ? otherwise i have to sell the jb3, i think  :'(
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: F.O.Bean on October 09, 2004, 07:46:07 PM
what about a used ad/20, does anybody know if those have gain ???

that would be suitable, i say thats your best bet, maybe some line transformers before the ad/20 to boost the signal a little, and the a/d stage of the ad/20 ispretty clean, IMO and would take care of your noisefloor a great bit, so i say thats your best bet ;)

max price there, maybe like 200 for the ad/20, and then maybe 40 bux for line transformers, that sounds about right
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: phonophobie on October 09, 2004, 08:08:09 PM
if there is a analog one with more boost it would maybe be enough for me  ???

i just had a look at this site here: http://www.micsupply.com/ad20.htm
only +15db is not that much, right?

what do you think about those devices i posted in the beginning of this thread?
http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmsterpreamh.htm

good size and +40db boost

well, i am totally new to portable mic preamps so i don´t really know what to buy. afterall all i need is amplify my okm2 mic´s
( soundman.de)

thanks
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: F.O.Bean on October 09, 2004, 09:56:33 PM
under features of the ad/20, it says max gain is 45db, it just says that it improves a dat or MD machines gain by about 15 extra db, so that should almost be enuf gain right there :)

some of the things you record will be softer too, so you will need extra gain, buy line transformers and an ad/20 for the budget, the ua5 is a lil big for your applications, especially if you'll be on the move :)

but seriosuly, let your ears decide :)
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: caymanreview on October 10, 2004, 03:42:47 AM
i think the ad20 applies a minimum gain of 20db
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: phonophobie on October 10, 2004, 06:28:06 AM
ok, thanks - i should have read everything better before i posted this 15db-thing  ;D

i found this infos about linetransformers here at taperssection:

A great way to add gain without buying a relatively expensive preamp.  Short on gain and don't have the cash for a preamp?  Or starting out and want to put as much money into your mics as possible and save for a preamp later (a wise choice) - line matching transformers are the way to go.  Clean, inexpensive gain to hold you over until you get the cash to support your upgrade bug.  Some options:

Audio Technica  (http://www.audiotechnica.com)
CP8201
CP8305
   
Hosa  (http://www.hosatech.com)
MIT-176

Shure  (http://www.shure.com)
A85F


okay, if i buy a linetransformer and the ad20, i have to find a way to connect my okm2 mic´s.  ???
the okm2 has a stereo miniplug ....

i noticed that it´s not that easy to find any of these things in stores here in germany..
and yes, it should be a small and easy setup, since want to record things on the fly
puh.. that whole thing gets really complicated for me ...
maybe i should open a thread in newbie section too  ;D

Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: Brian Skalinder on October 10, 2004, 08:56:07 AM
okay, if i buy a linetransformer and the ad20, i have to find a way to connect my okm2 mic´s.  ???
the okm2 has a stereo miniplug ....

Typically, you shouldn't need both the line transformers AND the AD-20.  The line transformers apply gain.  The AD-20 applies gain.  You don't need both.  And you'll need some sort of power for the mics (sorry, I'm not familiar with the OKM2's, so I don't know if they require internal power, battery box, or phantom).  At any rate, with the gear you've mentioned, you'd run one of these setups:

[1]  OKM2 > power for mics > line transformers > JB3
[2]  OKM2 > power for mics > AD-20 > JB3

In [1], you're using the line transformers for gain and the JB3's ADC.  In [2] you're using the AD-20 for gain and ADC.  I think [2] will sound better, but it's also the more expensive option.  Line transformers are cheap (approx USD$40/pr), so if you're on a budget I'd recommend [1] and see if you like it.  If you decide it doesn't sound good enough for your tastes, then you can always sell the line transformers and pick up an AD-20.
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: phonophobie on October 10, 2004, 09:40:45 AM
the okm need 6Volt power, and comes with a battery box ( my batteries are empty - always ;) )
infos here : http://www.bluthard.de/preise/mikrofone/mikrofonevonokm.htm
and here: http://www.soundman.de/

so it´s not neccesarry to have an additional powerbox for the okm´s.
but i still have to get a couple of adapters to connect everything with Stereo-miniplugs!

also soundman dealers suggests to use the Sony SBM1 in addition to portable recorders:

(http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00005LEIR.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
but this is a expensive thing again - and like the deneke, it´s hard to find.. :P

that line transformer only options sounds good, but how much gain will such line transformer provide?


hmm setup would be:

OKM2 > adapter from stereominiplug to > Stereo Linetransformer or 2 Mono Linetransformers > adapter from transformer(s) to miniplug > jb3

is that correct  ::)


Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: Sean Gallemore on October 11, 2004, 01:41:28 AM
what's up with Europeans and the OKMs?

SBM-1s used are $300
AD-20s used are $175?
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: BobW on October 11, 2004, 03:01:00 AM
Odd, why would anyone talk about portable recorders for "field recordings" on this board ?   ;D
Title: Re: portable recorder for "field recordings"
Post by: phonophobie on October 11, 2004, 05:34:33 AM
 :-X