Topic: JB3, Neuros alternatives

[Thom Joad]

I've been pondering getting  a "steathier" alternative than my trusty D10ProII, which lead me to spending some time with Google before investing.  I was pretty surprised when I found out there are a host of options available that are able to record to .WAV, have 20GB, and can pass as an MP3 player.  Just thought others who are interested in getting something similar might want to know these are out there, before they get a JB3 or Neuros.  I know none of them have Digital Ins, but for stealthing I think the less the better; mics., pre/power, recorder, work just fine for me.  The ones with  "$ ?" are not yet available.

Cowon IAudio M3:  http://www.cowon.com/eng/product/iAUDIOM3/about.html
     $320
             - remote controled REC function
             - 95 db S/N

SmartDisk FlashTrax:   http://www.smartdisk.com/Products/DigitalMultimedia/FlashTrax.asp
  $360 - $650
              - 20, 40, 80 GB
              - a little bigger than most
              - also acts as storage device for CF, SD, SmartMedia, memory stick, etc.
              - color screen, video playback

S-Media CoCo Pod: http://www.s-media.com/products/multimedia/storage/cocopod.htm
      $270
               - SD reader

S-Media JoyToGo: http://www.s-media.com/products/multimedia/storage/joytogo.htm
         $ ?     
                - from the description "Audio Rrcording : MSADPCM" ( anyone know what this is ?)
               
S-Media Black Diamond:  http://www.s-media.com/products/multimedia/storage/black%20diamond.htm
          $ ?
             
                - records WAV data

Microstar MS-5561: http://howstuffworks.shopping.com/xPF-MicroStar_MS_5561_20GB
       $ ?
           
Creative Zen Touch:  http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=3&subcategory=21&product=10274&campid=20459
        $ ~ 270-300

                  - just released
                  - 97  S/N
                  - under specs. page it says it'll do WAV

Tatung Elio:  http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/archives/000441.php

                 - should be released by Sept.


So, has anyone out there in Taperssectionland used/seen anyone of these before?  I'm thinking some of the ones suited to video would probably have some more better CPU's to them, therefore less problems with skips, noise, etc. when recording just audio.  Also, has there been anymore testing done on the IHP-120, or Gmimi's?    Anyone have any other possibliites that should be on this list? 

[Thom Joad]

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/dj?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

same thing as the Creative Zen since Creative designed it for Dell

[John Kelly]

Half of those (maybe more) don't look like they have line inputs, or any inputs at all (other than usb).  And none have digital inputs.  JB3 still rules it for now.

[Tenn Man]

Seems like several of these may play wav files but not record them. Is that correct?

[DCDireWolf]

I use an iRiver H140.

Pros:  It's tiny, I mean really tiny, and looks like a walkman.  It records to wav at 44.  It has optical/digi out and in.  It holds 40 gigs of music.  Supports .ogg files for playback, as well as the usual suspects.  It's a harddrive, recognized as such by usb in your computer.  It's 100 bucks less expensive than an iPod.

Cons:  It'll only record files up to 74 minutes, then you have to "flip" by stopping, saving and starting another file.  Takes about 10 seconds.  There are reports of periodic, systematic sample drops.  It's a tough glitch.  Apparently iRiver knows about it and is developing firmware to fix the problem, but who knows?  Also, can't monitor or change line levels on the fly.  I use an SVU-2 for that.  Supposedly iRiver is working on firmware to fix that problem too.

I'm happy with it, but until they fix the sample dropping and the line levels on the fly issues, it's not ideal.  But you could sneak that thing in anywhere, it will literally fit in your shoe.

[Thom Joad]

The iAudio M3 comes with a "sub pack" which fits on the bottom of the HDD and has USB, line out and LINE IN, check the pics

On the "specs" page of the CoCoPod site, it literally says:  Audio Input : 3.5 mm mini-jack.  I'm figuring the other two products coming out soon by S-Media (Black Diamond, JoyToGo) will also be able to do this, maybe not.
 
You're right, it doesn't look like the new Zen Touch has a line in, my bad

I'm still holding out hope that some of the other new ones may, it's too early to tell since none have been properly released and no other pictures posted.  I really hope that new Microstar device has a line in, since the company is known for making high quality motherboards for PC's.  I figure they have a pretty good idea on how to make this sort of device too.  Plus it looks pretty sweet too.

As per original post "I know none of them have Digital Ins, but for stealthing I think the less the better; mics., pre/power, recorder, work just fine for me."

I am not knocking the JB3 (although it's not for me), the intent of my original post was to say if you're in the market for something like this (like I am), then you may want to hold out for a little bit longer since it looks like the market is about to be flooded with a buch of new devices, SOME of which may be able to do everything we want them to do.

I have emails in to a few of these companies to see about file size limit, direct WAV encoding, bit perfectness, etc.  I'll let you know when I hear back (if I hear back)

Take it easy all

[John Kelly]

Well if they're all line in, you don't have to worry about bit perfectness.

[JasonSobel]

you should also take a look at the Archos Gmini 120.  I started a thread about it a few months ago, which became a huge 20 page thread...  The Gmini 120 has both digital input and Line In, and most of that thread was in regards to the Digital input, which proved unreliable.  I never tested the Line In, because I don't do much stealthing, and I wanted to use my V3.  However, I think there are a few other people on this board who have successfully been using the Line In.  I'd say it's definitely worth looking into.  do a search here and see what comes up..

[Thom Joad]

yeah, I've already done my research here and read extensively about the Gmini and Iriver offerings, and since I'm only going to be using the line in and not digital, the Archos may be for me. 

I'd like to hear from folks who are using the line in on the Gmini, specifally how are the level meters, file size restrictions, ease of use, etc.

FWIW, I read yesterday on the Iriver site that there are new firmware updates on the way for it's H series (replacement for IHP-1xx) in which these new players will both have significant updates.  Check it out:  http://iriver.com/company/news_view.asp?idx=373

[DCDireWolf]

Okay, read the link, thanks for providing it!  It looks like in October us iRiver users will be able to set our recording levels on the fly.

However, no mention of fixing the glitch that regularly drops samples or changing the 74 minute per recorded wav file issue.

Bummer.

I can live with the 74 minutes, but that sample dropping problem has got to go!

[Tenn Man]

What was the recording battery life on the Archos Gmini 120?

Can you use an external battery pack?

[timP]

I got 4hrs 45 min w/ the archos in 2 test runs, and the PDA batt pack I have works great with it set on 5v............

[timP]

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=23490.0

my 120 is up for sale     

[drufus]

I just replaced my H-120's hard drive. after a long summer with one 6ft drop and a 1ft drop, she finally gave up. But now im up and running again, thank the taper gods and all the people of Singapore!

The iRiver H-120 loses approx 40-50 samples every time it dumps from RAM cache to the hard disk, which at 16bit/44kHz your talking .0018 seconds of samples. For people like me far from the rolling lush hills of high-fidelity stereos, the drop is unrecognizable.

I have two battery packs for mine, giving me approx 20 of recording time total, i couldn't be happier, esp because of the new great mods coming out

[timP]

i get notcable clicks and pops, esp during lighter solos or between songs, with my 120

it may only be a bit of a second, but you hear it
even on my trucks stereo
and the 57 minute file size sucks

I love my 120 for music carrying, I took back an ipod i had, but it wasn't cutting it for recording