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Author Topic: On stealthing with the 722  (Read 7056 times)

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Offline MattD

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On stealthing with the 722
« on: March 30, 2005, 12:47:27 AM »
I took my 722 out for its first stealth gig tonight (just got back - I'm writing this while I transfer). I recorded almost 3 hours at 24/96. I learned a few things in the process and came up with some other ideas to try.

Setup:
I used gaffer's tape to cover the meters, input lights, and power light. I wanted to use the -3 dB indicators on the left to approximate levels. After I open up the files and look at them, I'll let you know how well this technique worked for me. This brought to mind one change I'd like to propose to Sound Devices: in stealth mode, have the backlight always off and use the light button to toggle the LEDs on/off. That way, I can still check levels without too much difficulty, and turn everything off otherwise. If I'm stealthing, I don't think I'll ever need the backlight to read the LCD.

I put it vertically in my waistband to get it in, then once in my seat, took it out and ran it standing up (battery side in my lap) with my jacket over it in my lap. I should mention that I had to bring the battery in separately (pocket, in this case) because with it attached, it's a bit bulky.

Use:
A nice, perhaps undocumented, feature of this device is that some settings are retained when the power is off. Phantom is one of these things. I set up the unit at home with my mics, and powered down with phantom still on. All I had to do to get running is have the mics plugged in and turn the unit on. Bit/samplerate settings are also stored while off. Once the unit was on, all I had to do was hit record. I just did that when the venue filled up, but in retrospect, I could have used the 5-second pre-roll and started with plenty of time using that method. Ahh, next time.

Once I had the record light on and saw the counter moving, I locked all of the front panel buttons. Then, after a song, I adjusted levels. The 722 needs more gain to get similar levels than I'm used to with the ULN-2. For example, if I know a certain perceived loudness level would usually get me to -3 dBFS at +20 gain, the 722 needed at least 10 dB more. I am guessing that's a function of the input impedence and how it matches with my mics. It's entirely possible that people could see the opposite effect, but odds are not with the DPA 402x series.

And now, a warning: In enclosed spaces, this fucker gets HOT! We're talking uncomfortably hot to the point where minor burns could occur if you're not careful. About two hours into the show, I noticed that my shirt was warm where the unit was resting against it. I put my hand on the outside of the box and had to pull it away, it was so hot. I held the 722 by the corners and moved it out near my knees, allowing more room for the air to circulate around it. When it cooled down enough to touch it for more than a second, I used my hands as heatsinks. By the time the show ended, it was back to just warm, borderline hot. I would strongly recommend a pack for stealthing this thing.

I'm guessing the heat issue does NOT occur if you're only recording to CF. Whenever 8 GB cards become cheap enough, I think I'll grab one of those and use it for stealthing. All of the heat came from the right side of the unit, which is where I'm guessing the HD is.
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Offline Chanher

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2005, 12:58:49 AM »
nothing like 24/96 stealth. way to go.
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Offline leegeddy

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2005, 01:00:01 AM »
+T!!!!!!!!! for stealthing with it. i must try it as well.

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Offline MattD

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2005, 01:08:04 AM »
Back at ya, Marc. I'm getting ready to order those right angle cables we discussed, too. (Soon enough...)

I just thought of one more thing about stealthing the 722. I think in this case it would be better to configure the level knobs in their gain/balance setting rather than L gain/R gain. This way, it only takes one knob to adjust levels and you don't have to worry about offsetting them. I think it would make level changes easier to hide with some processing, and would make the L/R offset constant, if you keep your head still. :)
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Offline scb

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2005, 07:10:30 AM »
i believe it was metheny

Offline MattD

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2005, 08:56:40 AM »
Scott is correct. I listened a bit last night before crashing - it's good. 24-bit was great for this show, since the band went from whisper-quiet at times to very loud (not quite Mule levels, though). I checked my gain knobs afterwards, and I was around +45. I think I started out at +35 and went from there.
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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2005, 09:24:37 AM »
Stealthed a 722! Sweet.

Offline Tim

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2005, 09:30:17 AM »
nice work Matt....
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Offline heath

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2005, 10:24:53 AM »


And now, a warning: In enclosed spaces, this fucker gets HOT! We're talking uncomfortably hot to the point where minor burns could occur if you're not careful.


Do we have a new grilled cheese maker on our hands?    :P ;)
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marc0789

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2005, 10:40:57 AM »


And now, a warning: In enclosed spaces, this fucker gets HOT! We're talking uncomfortably hot to the point where minor burns could occur if you're not careful.


Do we have a new grilled cheese maker on our hands?    :P ;)


that cannot be good for what is essentially a hard drive. heat kills, as we all know.

Offline MattD

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2005, 11:48:21 AM »
Well, ever feel a HD that has been performing I/O operations for 3 hours straight? Unless you have a very good cooling system in your computer, it will be at least that hot. I want to see if it gets this hot in a bag when open taping at 24/96. I think a lot of the heat buildup came from more or less wrapping it in my jacket while running it.

By the way, there is a custom grilled cheese menu option. So far they have presets for the Virgin Mary and wook #17. New firmware upgrades will provide more.
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2005, 11:54:26 AM »
I've run mine in a lumbar bag sitting on a surface so that the 722 sort of floats in the bag.  There is a path for heat to rise but not really great ventalation.  My unit gets warm to very warm but not really hot.

I use a 4200rpm drive and the OEM drive is 5400 so that may make a difference.

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Offline scb

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2005, 11:56:28 AM »
the 722 ships with a case logic case.  i've run it in that case logic case twice now.  while it gets warm, it doesn't get dangeroulsy hot in there. 

so as long as you don't have it wrapped in a jacket, you should be fine.  in a small fanny pack you should be fine

Offline Rick

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2005, 12:27:28 PM »


I use a 4200rpm drive and the OEM drive is 5400 so that may make a difference.



Anyone know about this? How much would a slower drive help heat?

Also what kind of 4200rpm drive is everyone getting?
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2005, 12:40:44 PM »
I'm using a fujitsu 80G 4200rm drive.

4200rpm drives disipate less power so presumably less heat (and longer battery life).
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Offline Rick

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2005, 01:29:49 PM »
I'm using a fujitsu 80G 4200rm drive.

4200rpm drives disipate less power so presumably less heat (and longer battery life).

Is it pretty easy to install?
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Offline MattD

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2005, 01:48:22 PM »
You wouldn't have to remove the HD entirely with CF. You can specify to record to CF only. I have no idea what happens if you fill up a CF card and you're still recording. I'll have to check the manual for that one.
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2005, 02:15:29 PM »
Is it pretty easy to install?

Yes, very easy.   As mentioned, search for the thread where there are photos of the operation.  The cable is delicate, so you should be gentle with it.  If you have ever changed a HD in your PC, then this is about the same level of difficulty except that the 722 is actually easier than a PC for media detection and formatting. 

Matt, I don't remember seeing it in the manual but when you disable recording to the internal HD, does it cut power to the device?  That  would seem like a natural thing to do, except that they do store the user saved configurations there so they might leave it poered on for that reason.
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Offline nickgregory

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2005, 02:26:38 PM »
so if I remember right, some folks had problems swapping out the drive...I take it it is not a problem anymore?  and what does that do to the warranty if anything?

Offline MattD

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2005, 02:30:47 PM »
Matt, I don't remember seeing it in the manual but when you disable recording to the internal HD, does it cut power to the device? That would seem like a natural thing to do, except that they do store the user saved configurations there so they might leave it poered on for that reason.

That's gonna be one for the SD forum once I get approved. I don't mind leaving it powered, so long as it spins down and isn't actively reading/writing.
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Offline JAH

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2005, 02:57:40 PM »
CF is the way to go....no head to wrorry about crashing or getting hot in the summer....wonder if one can remove the HD entirely and put a battery in there?
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2005, 03:30:32 PM »
so if I remember right, some folks had problems swapping out the drive...I take it it is not a problem anymore?  and what does that do to the warranty if anything?

SD manual says that there are no warrenty implications if performed by a qualified tech.   

Problems I had that I suggested might be HD incompatability problems were not actually due to the HD but were a problem with the firewire subsystem.  SD fixed that and the machine has been in great shape since then.

CF is the way to go....no head to wrorry about craching or getting hot in the summer....wonder if one can remove the HD entirely and put a battery in there?
Lil' Kim did you get your problem squared away?

You probably could fit a custom battery pack in there but I think you would have to give up use of the external battery mount. 

I have mentioned a few problems across various threads.

Firewire connectivity - this was a HW defect and SD customer support was excellent.  No more troubles.

system freezing up - this was caused by the same HW defect as the firewire problem.  No more troubles.

MP3s not playing - this issue can be solved with better documentation.  They don't currently support the data rates of the files I wanted to play.

SPDIF in issue - this one is outstanding.  I have not seen the issue since I used a fixed configuration instead of the auto input detect.  I owe Justin a description and samples of the problem wave files.  It is really only a matter for 16-bit transfers from my DA20s.
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Offline nickgregory

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2005, 03:50:10 PM »
so are any of us "qualified techs"  I mean, I know I can do it, have dont it on my own machine, but dont want to violate the warranty....

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2005, 04:05:29 PM »
so are any of us "qualified techs"  I mean, I know I can do it, have dont it on my own machine, but dont want to violate the warranty....

Thats a fairly standard disclaimer so that if someone is truely inept, they can void the warranty instead of having to repair someone elses mistake.  We have that same language in all our equipment documentation. 

If you are worried, call them and ask.  I spoke with them about the HD swap procedure I followed when I was having the FW issues and they quickly discounted that as being an issue.  You should take standard precautions like grounding yourself and touching the chassis before touching any of the internal components.  The way the box is designed, you really don't have to touch anything other than the drive and the connector.
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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2005, 05:07:00 PM »
good deal, thanks for the info...I would love to have a 80Gb drive in there eventually

Offline chris_jones

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2005, 11:34:23 PM »
I'm in the process of putting an order together for a rig exclusively for stealth with a 722 at its core.  Planning to replace the internal drive with Hitachi's Endurastar J4K30/N4K30 HDD to address the heat issue. 

Chris

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2005, 11:49:35 PM »
I'm in the process of putting an order together for a rig exclusively for stealth with a 722 at its core.  Planning to replace the internal drive with Hitachi's Endurastar J4K30/N4K30 HDD to address the heat issue. 

Chris



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Offline chris_jones

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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2005, 11:58:07 PM »
which piece?

the drive, unsure.

the SD box and other goodies will come from my pals at masterpieceav.
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Re: On stealthing with the 722
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2005, 08:59:06 AM »
yeah I ment the drive.
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