Topic: Recording live music - which microphone?

[Eric11]

Hi,
 
I'm currently using the Rode Videomic Pro for recording live music. Here's an example of a concert I recorded:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoslDlG1Ymo&feature=related
 
Imo the sound isn't that bad, yet it lacks 'punch'. Pressing the loudness button and boosting the treble improves the sound to an acceptable level - but I prefer recording the sound correctly, i.e. without having to use an equalizer or such.
 
I wonder if the Rode Videomic Pro is the right microphone for recording live music. I found out it's a very directional microphone so that could be the cause of the lack of treble. After all, I couldn't point the microphone to the speakers because in that case I would not have been able to film the band members properly.
 
So is the Rode Videomic Pro the right microphone? If so, what am I doing wrong? If not, which microphone should I use to record a band properly?

[F.O.Bean]

Your best bet is to use a pair of external mics and a battery box/preamp, and a recorder. If you have the space to do so, I would buy a pair of Church Audio CA-14 Cardioids, and a church audio preamp/battery box, and a sony PCM-M10 recorder. That will set you back about $500.00, but for the money, IMHO, cannot be beat!!!!

[H₂O]

It all about budget, what's your budget?

[Eric11]

Thanks guys. My budget is about 300 euro max (450 US dollars). So I will definitely consider the Church Audio Cardioids as suggested - I've found several youtube recordings of these mics and they sounded great!
But I'm still worried about the space of all that equipment. I want to shoot video and record the audio as well. Can you attach the preamp and the mics to your body and/or to my videocamera? And what about feeding the output of the preamp to the input of my videocamera (Panasonic SD700)? Why do I need a separate recorder like the PCM-M10?

[F.O.Bean]

Yeah, you should DEF be able to put the output of the BB/Preamp directly imnto your camera. That way you wont need the sony m10

[SmokinJoe]

I don't know much about video cameras, but I do know this: a lot of video cameras overload badly when you plug the output from an audio taping rig into the camera input.  I've given a patch from my audio rig into a videographer's input on a couple of occasions, and when I see them the next time they always tell me "it was all distorted, too hot a signal".    So do your research before you buy, and avoid the situation where you spend a bunch of money and just get distortion.  See if your camera has a spec like "maximum input level= -10dBu" or something like that.  If you give us that number we can help you.  If you live locally to some tapers, maybe someone will loan you a set of mics for an evening to see if it will work OK.  Or maybe you need a cheap in-line attenuator to drop the signal a bit.

[Eric11]

I don't know much about video cameras, but I do know this: a lot of video cameras overload badly when you plug the output from an audio taping rig into the camera input.  I've given a patch from my audio rig into a videographer's input on a couple of occasions, and when I see them the next time they always tell me "it was all distorted, too hot a signal".    So do your research before you buy, and avoid the situation where you spend a bunch of money and just get distortion.  See if your camera has a spec like "maximum input level= -10dBu" or something like that.  If you give us that number we can help you.  If you live locally to some tapers, maybe someone will loan you a set of mics for an evening to see if it will work OK.  Or maybe you need a cheap in-line attenuator to drop the signal a bit.

Yeah, I know many camera's have trouble handling high volumes. Just listen to the many amateur video's uploaded on youtube, they are often distorted!
My camera is the Panasonic SD700. I always control the audio manually; in that case VU-meters appear on the display of the camera. I always make sure the meters do not jump into the red (a brief peak is fine though). This video is an example of a distortion free recording:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1BIRljDXrw
Some technical details of this recording: the switch on the Rode microphone was set to -10 db and the signal (of the microphone) was reduced -27 db by the videocamera. The sound pressure varied from 90 to 100 db. So I had to the reduce the strength of the signal 37 db!

As for my original question: I have listened to many Church Audio recordings over the last couple of days. Some of them sound very good, some of them not. Obviously many other factors play a decisive role, such as the quality of the speakers, position of the microphones, etc.  The same thing applies to the recordings I made with the Rode Videomic: some of them are very good, some of them less good. Therefore I am not convinced that Church Audio beats Rode.
However, there is one reason why I'm interested in getting Church Audio stuff and that is stealth recording. For example, for recording performances of classical music. Unfortunately, I haven't found many examples of that. So I anyone knows a good example of that, please let me know!

[acidjack]

I would guess a CA mic is fine for classical, but that is not really what they're good for. In particular, as I understand it, the designs are meant for loud rock or at least louder stuff. Classical I'm sure they work, but there is a lot of competition in that category.

I'd think a rode mic would be great for video- probably why they are found in use by many video guys. What might help you would be an outboard preamplifier that would help you deal with a wider range of signals- but I defer to those who know more about video than I.

[stantheman1976]

The Rode Video Mic is a mono shotgun mic. Great for voice but not ideal for music. The Rode Stereo Video Mic would work much better for music. Ideally you want to record a separate audio source and sync it with the video. I usually only record stuff where I'm paid for it or know the person(s) I'm recording so I'll get a SBD feed and record the PA with a D50, DR-2d, or CA-11 omni/CA-9000 combo and syn the 2 sources.

Here are a couple samples of recent stuff I've done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqsb6KWATyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DDnTxfSiYA

These I recorded a SBD feed onto an iRiver H320 and set up my D50 about halfway back in the room with the mics in 180 degree setting. In post I just used hard limiting in Adobe Audition to raise each source up some and synced them in Vegas. I split the D50 into separate right and left channels and did a hard pan on each to that side. Then I mixed the SBD down to a single channel since it's mono anyway and put it between the stereo tracks. I set the D50 tracks to -8dB and left the SBD as is. I used the Antress Modern Limiter VST plugin on the master output track to drop any stray peaks over odB. I am very pleased with how this one turned out.

Here's another show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxDjG7t79nA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpmLdh1VcVY

For these I recorded a SBD feed with a Tascam DR-2d. The only thing running through the board were the vocals and keyboard. It was in a small tattoo shop and I set up the CA-11 omnis\CA-9000 in the back of the shop. The mics were clipped on the D50 rails pointed out at about 45 degrees. I did the same processing in post as the other clips. I think the mics were set to -10dB and the SBD source left at full level.

I can't tell you which mics to get since I haven't been able to use the higher end stuff some of these guys have but I can say for sure recording a separate audio source does give you the most versatility to make your project the best it can be.