Topic: Acoustic Recording Techniques

[checht]

I've uploaded flacs of just the mk41s (swapped channel) and mk22s to the same dropbox folder linked above.

[voltronic]

Here are a few samples of a concert I recorded and sang in this weekend. The choir is made up of volunteers from various local groups and is mostly amateurs. Same for the orchestra except they are all pros. This was a benefit concert where the assembled forces get one rehearsal the day of the concert, and then the performance is after lunch break.

Recording chain was 4006A pair at 50 cm width in the traditional above conductor position, with 4011A pair in Gerzon about 12ft high behind woodwinds for choir supplement. Direct into 788 at 24/96.

It's a very dry room so there's just a touch of reverb added, and RX Spectral Denoise to knock back the HVAC noise.

https://samply.app/player/RwCzXO0aMDv9UKyVW5wS/

Enable Lossless in Audio Options for full quality.

[Gutbucket]

That Kyrie!

[voltronic]

That Kyrie!

That movement was quite fun to perform when that first big crescendo hit. I was standing about 15 ft from the timpani.

[rowjimmy]

Been inactive on TS for ages mostly due to less live taping and more home recording but I have taped a couple house shows in recent times. Last one, back in the fall, was unamplified.
First up was a rotation of artists including
a Trio: acoustic guitar and vocals, with harmonica player and harmony vocalist
a female singer/guitarist who insisted in sitting off to one side
a male singer/guitarist (me) who sat in the center of the space

Then we had a noise artist running sound through the house stereo (which has a million speakers all over the house and in the garden)

Then another guitarist playing finger style 12-string and Weisenborn guitar.

I setup for the acoustic acts with a m/s setup about knee high in the front, center of the 'stage'. I set levels and left it alone and it came out quite well. The trio, in particular, sounds nice as their placement in the room is clear, especially on headphones.

If you're okay with the post production, it's really a can't miss close-mic setup.

[voltronic]

Been inactive on TS for ages mostly due to less live taping and more home recording but I have taped a couple house shows in recent times. Last one, back in the fall, was unamplified.
First up was a rotation of artists including
a Trio: acoustic guitar and vocals, with harmonica player and harmony vocalist
a female singer/guitarist who insisted in sitting off to one side
a male singer/guitarist (me) who sat in the center of the space

Then we had a noise artist running sound through the house stereo (which has a million speakers all over the house and in the garden)

Then another guitarist playing finger style 12-string and Weisenborn guitar.

I setup for the acoustic acts with a m/s setup about knee high in the front, center of the 'stage'. I set levels and left it alone and it came out quite well. The trio, in particular, sounds nice as their placement in the room is clear, especially on headphones.

If you're okay with the post production, it's really a can't miss close-mic setup.

Would you be willing to post some samples?

[rowjimmy]

Been inactive on TS for ages mostly due to less live taping and more home recording but I have taped a couple house shows in recent times. Last one, back in the fall, was unamplified.
First up was a rotation of artists including
a Trio: acoustic guitar and vocals, with harmonica player and harmony vocalist
a female singer/guitarist who insisted in sitting off to one side
a male singer/guitarist (me) who sat in the center of the space

Then we had a noise artist running sound through the house stereo (which has a million speakers all over the house and in the garden)

Then another guitarist playing finger style 12-string and Weisenborn guitar.

I setup for the acoustic acts with a m/s setup about knee high in the front, center of the 'stage'. I set levels and left it alone and it came out quite well. The trio, in particular, sounds nice as their placement in the room is clear, especially on headphones.

If you're okay with the post production, it's really a can't miss close-mic setup.

Would you be willing to post some samples?

Here's the trio:
https://on.soundcloud.com/8rnAvT41rRN9QY1L7

Here's a clip of myself:
https://on.soundcloud.com/q8JhhAJNazNqpCji6

You can actually hear that I've turned my body a bit to the audience/rig right.

[rocksuitcase]

rowjimmy- I listened to the trio on headphones, nice soundstage. good clarity of the guitar. vocals present. nice job

[grawk]

Listening on speakers, it's a fantastic recording.  Depth and width, very natural, I can pick out where everyone is.  This is one to be proud of.

[rowjimmy]

Thanks!
Still hoping headliner Liam Grant will decide to release his set (or allow me to circulate it).

[voltronic]

Here's a good example of why critical distance is important.

The choir I perform with is doing the same piece I posted a different ensemble doing back in March, and I was able to record dress rehearsal on Friday. This is in a modern church where we often perform. Upon arriving, I was surprised to learn that the chamber orchestra (smaller than the other performance) would be on the congregation floor forward of the communion rail, rather than in front of the altar as we typically do. This meant that the choir was quite far away.

Since I was not the official recording person for this, I didn't bring all my gear - just my 4006 pair and 788. My friend also brought his 414s.

So I put my omnis very high and boomed out over the conductor's head so they were level with the back row of singers on the altar, and hopefully far enough from the strings. The 414s were a bit lower in M/S. I knew that the choir was going to sound quite far away, because they were. I tried to make the best of the situation, but this was just a rehearsal recording to help the conductor evaluate things. If I was recording the concert, I would definitely add choir spots.

Here are some samples of each array. The default for each is the 4006 track, but if you click the "V2" button to the right you can access the 414 track and A/B on the fly.
https://samply.app/p/BA8P68bBYGlfg0QX0Oja

I added a gentle boost at 12 kHz to the omnis to compensate a little for the loss of articulation at a distance. The 414 pair really have the strings overbalanced to my ears.

Hopefully the "pro" company our board hires is planning to run choir spots, because they will be needed!

[achalsey]

This isn't particularly interesting in terms of technique, but I just recorded a classical guitar with vocal accompaniment.

First recording in a long time.  It's a mix of classic German composers and a small showcase on the Ecuadorian composer Gerardo Guevara.

Mic'd the guitar directly and used a pair of AKG CK61 (naiant actives) > SD MixPre 6 about 10' or so from the performers.  You can see the mics in the video.  I used the only mic bar I have, which is 25cm spacing with an angle of 50 degrees.  I originally bought it for use in the back of a big room. 


Schubert - An Die Musik - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jlwcDjWBX8

Gerardo Guevera (ecuadorian composer) - Se Va Con Algo Mio - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8-ruuo2IK8

Full set: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpX9t5WRcnCIXmGxZLDOJZuNUUSOGSFY-

[Thelonius]

Hello folks.

I am hoping to pick your brain on how to approach a taping situation that is new to me. I saw a fantastic jazz trio in a small room last winter, with sax, tuba and drums. I found the arrangements very interesting (no chord and very little harmony with this arrangement) and I reached out for permission to record an upcoming show. They were up for this and they are going to let me know once they have booked their fall shows so I have some options.

I have recorded a couple of amplified shows, and lots of acoustic jams of myself with various friends (typically two acoustic guitars, unamplified voices and occasionally an amplified bass), but the need to be conscious of the sight lines of the audience in a small space like this is new to me. Additionally, I am concerned about being too close to any one sound source to the detriment of the overall mix.

I am running a Mixpre 6 so I'm able to run two pairs of mics to provide options after the fact, as long as I can keep the mics, and stand/cables, from being in the way. 

I have CM4s, OM1s, AKG 461s, KSM 141s and, if necessary, 414s available for the recording. I would prefer to not use the 414s if possible as these shows will be in tight spaces in bars and I am concerned about the potential for the mic stand getting knocked over.

I currently have a simple rode stereo bar, which is adequate for simple 2 microphone techniques with spacing up to ~4cm, but I am open to getting a better bar that allows for more microphones if it would be helpful. The reason I am asking in advance of the venue being finalized is the lead time to get stereo bars, etc., in Canada can be quite long and I would like to be prepared with as many options as possible when the venue is finalized.

My initial thought would be CM4s or AKG 461s in NOS or ORTF up close (<3') from the stage to reduce the crowd noise (there WILL be talking during the music) but I am concerned about the proximity to one instrument (sax or drums in the image below) drowning out the tuba if my placement is too close. I'm also curious on using a Faulkner array (46, 67) with the CM4s and OM1s and whether that may add any advantage in this type of situation. If so, is there a stereo bar that folks would recommend that would allow for mounting the 4 mics on one mic stand?

Please see below for the instruments on stage at the show last winter and another picture with the overall room for context. This is a common room for shows in the area and, even if the actual venue differs, this represents a typical size and type of venue for local jazz shows that I encounter frequently.

Thank you in advance for any thoughts/suggestions on the best approach.



 

[checht]

So many options/choices, a lot of this depends on what you are aiming for. Close mics on the 3 instruments will allow you to adjust balance in post. Farther out will likely be best with mics paired.

For close, I like these little tripods that don't have a sightline issue:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CKYWY5PH/?coliid=I1WPU6CUWMJN1A&colid=1QG81AFMEZEBS&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

For further back, how about hang from the ceiling? No sightline issue and minimizes crowd noise.

IMO, you need to choose your desired sound, then mics and configs and placement will follow.

How fun!

[Gutbucket]

Cool joint.  Looks like a fun one for sure.

If you are able to listen while they warm up you, stick your head were the mics will be and move around to find the best balance and best angular orientation of the microphone array.  Doing that will be your best guide in making placement and configuration choices.  Can you find a place where all the instruments sound well balanced?

I'd probably setup at stage-lip / on-stage between the sax and tuba, with the mic-array centered on the tuba.. and would keep everything low, like just above stage height, with the mics angled upward toward the instruments.  That will avoid any problem with sightlines while also increasing distance to nearby audience mouths somewhat.  ORTF would probably work well.  NOS will focus on the tuba and angle the mics away from the audience a bit more.

Alternate options:
Might run the OM1 omnis or CM4 cardioids as a second pair A-B spaced out a couple feet to either side of the center stereo pair.  If you choose to do that you might switch the center pair to a 90-deg X/Y configuration which will combine nicely with the wide spaced pair.  Without that additional wide-spaced pair I'd use a near-spaced configuration for the center rather than X/Y.

Might use a three microphone stereo configuration (Left/Center/Right), which will provide some ability to adjust level of the center (tuba) afterward if needed.  That works great on stage and is especially well suited to a thee piece.  Easiest way to configure that is to first envision it as two standard near-spaced configurations placed adjacent to each other, sharing the center microphone between them.  Using two NOS pairs that would angle the Left and Right mics 180 degrees apart.  That's a good LCR stereo configuration, yet is likely to be angled overly wide for that situation and susceptible to picking up more audience and sidewall reflection, so it will be better to reduce the angle between the outer L/R mics back down to 120 or less, while increasing the spacing between the 3 mics to compensate for that reduction in angle.  It will also be good to push the center mic forward of the other two a somewhat, which occurs automatically if you think of it as the combination of two near-spaced microphone pairs sharing the same mic in the center.   Angle them up toward the instruments, and angle the right channel mic that is facing the drumkit toward the snare drum, ideally with a clear line of sight to the snare around the kick drum.  Often best to setup the mics so as to be slightly off-axis to the head of the kick drum rather than directly in front of  / perpendicular to it.


Edit-
The aforementioned 3 and 4 channel techniques are fun and useful, but I suspect you'd be able to make a good simple, straight, two-channel recording by listening carefully for the best place to put the mic array on stage.

If the tuba is weak you might run a single spot mic in back peering down into the tuba over the shoulder of the player.  I'd rather do it without any spots though, and suspect you will be able to.