Topic: Looking for a reliable backup solution

[tbger]

Hello,

I've been storing my recordings on an external hard disc drive (1TB Seagate "Expansion") for a while now, and after reading about a few people who'd lost their data due to drive failures, I've decided to add a second one (1TB Western Digital "MyBook").  Currently, I'm backing up my shows on these 2 externals, synchronized once in a month or two.  I run them only for backups (nowhere near 24/7), they're handled very carefully and kept in a cabinet, so hopefully no heat or wear issues should occur - at least not because of inappropriate use.  When one shows signs of failure, I'll simply replace it and synchronize again with the other, and so on.  This way, theoretically, I shouldn't lose my data, so it's a good way, safety wise.

One thing about the synchronization I make: I don't use any special program or tool, I just format the WD drive and copy everything from the Seagate.

I only used common sense in order to find a secure solution, but never considered the economical and technical sides.  I'd be glad to read any suggestions and advices and am curious to know what the experienced people out there would think.

Thank you very much. 

[sparkey]

I archive my stuff to DVD and label them dvd 2010-01, 2010-02, 2010-03 and track the contents of each one in an Excel spreadsheet.  Hard disks are prone to failure, backup tapes are prone to failure (not to mention slow when you want to pull something), so I prefer having a physical medium that I think will last a long time.  I anticipate switching to Blu-Ray at some point this year, but the spreadsheet organizes my collection in such a way that I can find anything I've archived immediately.  It also sets the stage to import it into a database like Access to search on artist name, venue, city, date, and source.

Now if I can just use that process and get through the three large moving boxes of DAT's, DVD's and CD's :-)  I am hoping to be through all of my DAT's by the end of the summer.

Josh

[Gordon]

everything is burnt to dvd and on at least two harddrives.  actually most of stuff is on four drives now that I think about it.  one internal has everything from 2007-current.  one external with all the rest (2001-2006).  these are for playing through my squeezebox.  then two externals with everything.  those are kept in a fire & water proof safe along with my data dvds.

oh and I seed 99.9% of my stuff via archive or bt.  so it's all out there should my house explode   I'd like to have a copy off site as well but for now I don't.

[Brian Skalinder]

Hard disks are prone to failure, backup tapes are prone to failure, CDs are prone to failure, DVDs are prone to failure, DVD-BluRay are prone to failure, any media format is prone to failure -- that's why redundancy is important.

FTFY

[Johnny Thunder]

Hard disks are prone to failure, backup tapes are prone to failure, CDs are prone to failure, DVDs are prone to failure, DVD-BluRay are prone to failure, any media format is prone to failure -- that's why redundancy is important.

FTFY

Brian's right on the money here. To add to that, ALL optical (CD DVD Blu-Ray) media has errors that have to be corrected the moment they are written even on the nicest of burners and on the very best media available. Further, optical media degrades very quickly. Magnetic storage is much safer. However, I should also point out that, off site storage should be part of any truely complete backup scheme. What if you, (God forbid), have a fire? You get robbed? This also brings up another point I like to make people aware of. Most of us have insurance, but what good is it really when we can't remember everything to submit on a claim? I emplore people to take a careful inventory with a VIDEO CAMERA! It's alot faster than trying to document everything by hand-writing it, and it's an invaluable record should the very worst ever happen. I know, has little to do with data backup, but it's definately worth mentioning whenever I get the chance.

-JT

[sparkey]

Hard disks are prone to failure, backup tapes are prone to failure, CDs are prone to failure, DVDs are prone to failure, DVD-BluRay are prone to failure, any media format is prone to failure -- that's why redundancy is important.

FTFY

Brian's right on the money here. To add to that, ALL optical (CD DVD Blu-Ray) media has errors that have to be corrected the moment they are written even on the nicest of burners and on the very best media available. Further, optical media degrades very quickly. Magnetic storage is much safer. However, I should also point out that, off site storage should be part of any truely complete backup scheme. What if you, (God forbid), have a fire? You get robbed? This also brings up another point I like to make people aware of. Most of us have insurance, but what good is it really when we can't remember everything to submit on a claim? I emplore people to take a careful inventory with a VIDEO CAMERA! It's alot faster than trying to document everything by hand-writing it, and it's an invaluable record should the very worst ever happen. I know, has little to do with data backup, but it's definately worth mentioning whenever I get the chance.

-JT

How quickly is "very quickly" for optical media?  I have CDR's that are 12 years old that still play just fine; I recall Kodak saying that their disks were good for 100 years when I bought my first CD burner in '98, in 100 years I will know for sure :-)  I disagree that magnetic media is safer.  Hard drives are prone to mechanical failure, damaged media and file system corruption, backup tapes can also snap or become corrupted.  Keep in mind that if you have a mirrored array that becomes corrupted, both mirrors are lost.

For me, it's a hobby...if I have a disk that cannot be read (which, knock on wood, I have not), then it is one disk of many and my world will not fall off its hinges.  Storing your entire collection on a  hard drive is convenient, but it is also a single point of failure.

Josh

[Gordon]

why not have it on dvd and harddrive? 

[Brian Skalinder]

Hard drives are prone to mechanical failure, damaged media and file system corruption, backup tapes can also snap or become corrupted.

You speak as if optical media isn't susceptible to damage and corruption.  Of course optical media is also susceptible to damage and corruption.

For me, it's a hobby...if I have a disk that cannot be read (which, knock on wood, I have not), then it is one disk of many and my world will not fall off its hinges.  Storing your entire collection on a  hard drive is convenient, but it is also a single point of failure.

Hence the need for redundancy, whatever the storage medium.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

1. Internal Hard Drive in Media Server
2. Internal Hard Drive in Media Server (mirrored nightly)
3. External Hard Drive (kept OFF SITE and mirrored about 3-4 times a year)

For a while I've been thinking of adding source #4: Cloud Storage.

The only problem I have with the Cloud Storage is the amount of time and bandwidth it will take to back up all of my data. I have roughly 1TB of data that I would want to keep backed in the cloud. It looks like it will take roughly THREE MONTHS of constant uploading to finish that. Ideally I find a backup company that will allow me to send them a external drive and have them dump it into my account. Of course it would also take quite some time to download that amount of data (and I don't think Comcast would be too happy with me).

I have found most Cloud Storage options to cost about $5/month for UNLIMITED storage. I don't think they know me very well.

Oh, and the Live Music Archive has saved my ass once already. Another nice option, but obviously not every band is on it.

[sparkey]

You speak as if optical media isn't susceptible to damage and corruption.  Of course optical media is also susceptible to damage and corruption.

I consider optical media the most stable.  If a disk gets scratched then yes it will have data loss, but the information is basically static, whereas on a hard drive the information is dynamic and prone to file system failure during day to day use.  My computer died when I bumped the power strip earlier this week and I lost the attributes of the files that were being accessed on my 722.  Not the files themselves, but the creation dates.

[rastasean]

on optical media:
what special process to music cds go through to be recorded? The music industry would be failing faster than it already is if CDs could not play after a few years. We probably take care of ANY cd but we all know the people who have a stack spread all around their house and they still play. what do they do that we should start doing?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

on optical media:
what special process to music cds go through to be recorded? The music industry would be failing faster than it already is if CDs could not play after a few years.

Google is your friend.

Like DVDs, music CDs are pressed.  They are completely different than the unstable photo-chemical discs we burn on.

[sparkey]

on optical media:
what special process to music cds go through to be recorded? The music industry would be failing faster than it already is if CDs could not play after a few years.

Google is your friend.

Like DVDs, music CDs are pressed.  They are completely different than the unstable photo-chemical discs we burn on.

I couldn't find anything at Wikipedia on the longevity of writable dvd-r media, but I did find this:

http://www.timefordvd.com/tutorial/RecordableDVDTutorial.shtml
DVD-R has an expected lifespan of about 100 years.

[Brian Skalinder]

http://www.timefordvd.com/tutorial/RecordableDVDTutorial.shtml
DVD-R has an expected lifespan of about 100 years.

Maybe -- assuming high quality dyes, manufacturing, and burning, and under perfect storage and environmental conditions -- and maybe not.

From NARA (National Archives and Records Administration):

6. How long can I expect my recorded CDs/DVDs to last?

CD/DVD experiential life expectancy is 2 to 5 years even though published life expectancies are often cited as 10 years, 25 years, or longer. However, a variety of factors discussed in the sources cited in FAQ 15, below, may result in a much shorter life span for CDs/DVDs. Life expectancies are statistically based; any specific medium may experience a critical failure before its life expectancy is reached. Additionally, the quality of your storage environment may increase or decrease the life expectancy of the media. We recommend testing your media at least every two years to assure your records are still readable.

Hence, the need for redundancy.  (Alright, that horse is dead. Last time, honest!)

[it-goes-to-eleven]

You really expect us to believe the national archive vs. a random, unqualified website that mostly exists to make money via referrals?