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Author Topic: Rode NT3's into Edirol R-09HR: do I need to use a pre-amp?  (Read 3653 times)

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Offline absnj

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Rode NT3's into Edirol R-09HR: do I need to use a pre-amp?
« on: June 15, 2010, 04:20:10 PM »
I just got a pair of these Rode mics, since they can use an internal 9V battery or phantom power, so I do not need an external power source for the time being.  I also use CA-14's into a CA9100 pre-amp into my R-09HR.  The Rode mics seem to have a pretty hot signal.  What are the pros/cons of going to mic in with no pre-amp (and no plug-in power) vs. using the pre-amp with line-in?

Offline carpa

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Re: Rode NT3's into Edirol R-09HR: do I need to use a pre-amp?
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2010, 05:44:45 PM »
Generally speaking you'll get a better quality with an external preamp, though R09HR preamp is not noisy and not bad in terms of quality.

I usually run a couple of Naiant little omnis with a Naiant Littlebox   (a great preamp!) and go line-in my R09HR with great results; as those mics need power I can't run them directly mic-in to make a comparison

I can tell you about a  comparison I did because I also own a Sony battery powered ecm907, I little stereo mic which I don't like  that much: it lacks bass and to me never sounded that clear. 
As I received my littlebox I recorded a few chords and arpeggios on my piano using the 907 directly into the R09 Hr, then I played again passing through the preamp and then line-in.
There was such a difference you couldn't believe: it still lacked some bass (the frequency response starts from 100 hz...) but it showed much more "presence and clearness.
So it is nice to have a couple of mics you can plug directly if you are tight in time or whatever, but if you have the possibility run them through a preamp and everything will be better.
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Offline OOK

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Re: Rode NT3's into Edirol R-09HR: do I need to use a pre-amp?
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2010, 10:24:49 PM »
I just got a pair of these Rode mics, since they can use an internal 9V battery or phantom power, so I do not need an external power source for the time being.  I also use CA-14's into a CA9100 pre-amp into my R-09HR.  The Rode mics seem to have a pretty hot signal.  What are the pros/cons of going to mic in with no pre-amp (and no plug-in power) vs. using the pre-amp with line-in?

Although I do not own a pair of NT3's, I own nak cm300's which are powered by battery...I run them directly into a R9HR with great results... However you have to run them into the "mic in" input.  There is not enough signal coming from the mics to go "line in".......  but hey give it a try with the rodes.....  if not you should have no problems going "mic in"...  There really is no need for the external pre-amp if you can't afford one now......

OOK
DPA/HEB 4060's > R09HR
MBHO648/KA100Lk/KA200/KA300/KA500 > SD702

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Rode NT3's into Edirol R-09HR: do I need to use a pre-amp?
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2010, 07:10:33 AM »
The Rode NT4 stereo mic, which I own, sounds quite a bit better when run on phantom power than it does when running on the 9 volt battery and I'm pretty sure the NT3's are the same.

Using the ST-9100 preamp (which I love) line in won't help with this issue. I believe you'd get significantly better sound (especially when recording stuff that isn't extremely loud) getting a preamp that provides phantom power like the littlebox (which I also love) and going line in to your recorder.
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: Rode NT3's into Edirol R-09HR: do I need to use a pre-amp?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 04:45:23 PM »
Questions like this are why God invented local bars.   Take the proposed rig somewhere loud, and find someone who will let you record them, and see how it sounds.  Record some with the new mics, and some with the old mics.  Go home and listen.  If you are happy with it, you are ready for the next big show.  If not, you have time to think about other options before the next big show.

Sometimes when running from Low Impedence mics into a high impedence deck it helps to use Impedence transformers.  It is like automatic boost.  I have a set I seldom use, I'll be glad to loan them to you Alan if you want to try them.  If they help, you can buy a pair.  It's basically a pair of these, with a Y cable to go into the deck.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Hosa+Technology+-+Impedance+Transformer/8912233.p?skuId=8912233&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=8912233&ref=06&loc=01&id=1213399751597

But if you can save up a few bucks for a Little Box I think you will decide it makes a difference.

A guy I tape with all the time has an NT4.  He runs it into an Oade Moded PMD671.  For an evening show he might use the phantom power, it's easier to flip a switch than install a battery.  At a weekend festival where he is trying to stretch recorder batteries, he uses the 9V battery in the NT4 to avoid the phantom power drain.  He has run it both ways dozens of times, and interestingly he has never mentioned that it makes a difference.  Perhaps it's a "headroom" issue like small mics running on plug-in-power versus a 9 or 12V battery box, and my buddy doesn't hit shows as loud as fmaderjr.
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Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Rode NT3's into Edirol R-09HR: do I need to use a pre-amp?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 05:40:36 PM »
A guy I tape with all the time has an NT4.  He runs it into an Oade Moded PMD671.  For an evening show he might use the phantom power, it's easier to flip a switch than install a battery.  At a weekend festival where he is trying to stretch recorder batteries, he uses the 9V battery in the NT4 to avoid the phantom power drain.  He has run it both ways dozens of times, and interestingly he has never mentioned that it makes a difference.  Perhaps it's a "headroom" issue like small mics running on plug-in-power versus a 9 or 12V battery box, and my buddy doesn't hit shows as loud as fmaderjr.

For moderately loud to very loud stuff, you may not notice a difference between running on battery or phantom. I believe that it is when recording quiet stuff that you are most likely to hear a difference. So, depending on what he normally records, using the battery may be fine. As Joe says, test with bar bands and see what you think. There is no headroom issue-it is not more likely to distort when recording loud stuff with the battery than with phantom. But it can be noisier with the battery if you need to add a lot of gain and you always need to add more gain when using the battery. The mic is about 10 dB less sensitive when battery powered.
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline absnj

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Re: Rode NT3's into Edirol R-09HR: do I need to use a pre-amp?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2010, 09:01:06 AM »
Lots of good information, thanks guys.  I record mostly loud stuff, but I can see the advantage of using the pre.  Battery vs. phanton quality was another issue and the info above also helps a lot.

 

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