Author Topic: DPA 4061 vs. AT853 (831?)RX (Read 8494 times)

Aaron41 · « **on:** December 13, 2005, 01:23:18 AM »

Hey everyone,

I'm looking to improve my stealth tapes. I'm currently running AT831. While they sound good they are severly lacking in bass. They also have a tendency to get a little overpowered during hard rock shows which I will hit from time to time.

I like the bass on 4061 tapes when they are in the right spot. But of course since they are omnis they can suffer from crowd noise which happens from time to time.

So I've thought about picking up a pair of AT853RX or perhaps getting my current AT831 phantom-modded. I'm just wondering if I'm going to get anywhere near the bass and overall quality as a pair of 4061s. I'd rather have a very good pair of cardoids than a great pair of omnis, personally.

Any help would be great guys. Thanks a lot.

souper · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2005, 02:14:52 AM »

try the phantom mod - it will increase the SPL capability of the mics

cards are fine

fuzn · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2005, 03:11:54 AM »

Quote from: aron41 on December 13, 2005, 01:23:18 AM

Hey everyone,

I'm looking to improve my stealth tapes. I'm currently running AT831. While they sound good they are severely lacking in bass. They also have a tendency to get a little overpowered during hard rock shows which I will hit from time to time.

I like the bass on 4061 tapes when they are in the right spot. But of course since they are omnis they can suffer from crowd noise which happens from time to time.

So I've thought about picking up a pair of AT853RX or perhaps getting my current AT831 phantom-modded. I'm just wondering if I'm going to get anywhere near the bass and overall quality as a pair of 4061s. I'd rather have a very good pair of cardoids than a great pair of omnis, personally.

Any help would be great guys. Thanks a lot.

Do you usually stealth or open tape? Phantom power is really not the best idea if you're stealthing, the extra gear is a total pain. The 4061s are omnis and such, but I was in the exact same boat as you man, I freaking DID NOT want omnis. But when you are in the spot with them around no crowd noise, they really do sound freaking amazing. You gotta hear the tapes I made with them last week in this situation... freaking amazing. Makes the 11/19 one look like trash. If you want clips feel free to pm.

The small as hell setup for the amazing sound and RIGHT ON bass really makes it worth it to just deal with it. This is all assuming you will be stealthing.

Aaron41 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2005, 03:23:52 AM »

Quote from: fuzn on December 13, 2005, 03:11:54 AM

Quote from: aron41 on December 13, 2005, 01:23:18 AM
Hey everyone,

I'm looking to improve my stealth tapes. I'm currently running AT831. While they sound good they are severely lacking in bass. They also have a tendency to get a little overpowered during hard rock shows which I will hit from time to time.

I like the bass on 4061 tapes when they are in the right spot. But of course since they are omnis they can suffer from crowd noise which happens from time to time.

So I've thought about picking up a pair of AT853RX or perhaps getting my current AT831 phantom-modded. I'm just wondering if I'm going to get anywhere near the bass and overall quality as a pair of 4061s. I'd rather have a very good pair of cardoids than a great pair of omnis, personally.

Any help would be great guys. Thanks a lot.
Do you usually stealth or open tape? Phantom power is really not the best idea if you're stealthing, the extra gear is a total pain. The 4061s are omnis and such, but I was in the exact same boat as you man, I freaking DID NOT want omnis. But when you are in the spot with them around no crowd noise, they really do sound freaking amazing. You gotta hear the tapes I made with them last week in this situation... freaking amazing. Makes the 11/19 one look like trash. If you want clips feel free to pm.

The small as hell setup for the amazing sound and RIGHT ON bass really makes it worth it to just deal with it. This is all assuming you will be stealthing.

These mics will be used for stealthing. I've loved your NIN 4061 tapes.

fuzn · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2005, 03:30:03 AM »

Quote from: aron41 on December 13, 2005, 03:23:52 AM

Quote from: fuzn on December 13, 2005, 03:11:54 AM
Quote from: aron41 on December 13, 2005, 01:23:18 AM
Hey everyone,

I'm looking to improve my stealth tapes. I'm currently running AT831. While they sound good they are severely lacking in bass. They also have a tendency to get a little overpowered during hard rock shows which I will hit from time to time.

I like the bass on 4061 tapes when they are in the right spot. But of course since they are omnis they can suffer from crowd noise which happens from time to time.

So I've thought about picking up a pair of AT853RX or perhaps getting my current AT831 phantom-modded. I'm just wondering if I'm going to get anywhere near the bass and overall quality as a pair of 4061s. I'd rather have a very good pair of cardoids than a great pair of omnis, personally.

Any help would be great guys. Thanks a lot.
Do you usually stealth or open tape? Phantom power is really not the best idea if you're stealthing, the extra gear is a total pain. The 4061s are omnis and such, but I was in the exact same boat as you man, I freaking DID NOT want omnis. But when you are in the spot with them around no crowd noise, they really do sound freaking amazing. You gotta hear the tapes I made with them last week in this situation... freaking amazing. Makes the 11/19 one look like trash. If you want clips feel free to pm.

The small as hell setup for the amazing sound and RIGHT ON bass really makes it worth it to just deal with it. This is all assuming you will be stealthing.

These mics will be used for stealthing. I've loved your NIN 4061 tapes.

Yeah, I don't know many people that stealth with phantom power. There really isn't a compact solution to do it... Then again, things are different in california compared to the rest of the world. This is exactly the reason why I just said screw it and went with the 4061s. Words can't express how happy I am that I did it.

Evil Taper · « **Reply #5 on:** December 13, 2005, 04:18:04 AM »

the AT mics can't touch the imaging or realism of the 4061s. i wouldn't worry about crowd noise because it's not often that you'll encounter a show where you can't move a few feet to get away from chatty people. that's also a major advantage of omnis, you can move around whenever you must and it doesn't effect the sound as long as you're not spinning in circles and what not. once you tape with the 4061s you'll be able to SEE the differance in quality once you open the files on your PC, for real. your only other option is to upgrade to some really nice cards or try going phantom with the ATs. There's a few people who really dig how they work phantom, maybe talk to shwilly, but the 4061s are definately easier to stealth with and higher quality.

nardo · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2005, 04:33:09 AM »

There's also the option of getting a pair of Sanken COS-11s. Slightly more expensive than DPA406x but some people (including myself) prefer their sound over DPA406x. Historical note (according to my distributor who also has DPA mics): the diaphragm of the DPA406x series was designed after that of the COS-11s, the COS-11s do have slightly lower self-noise, though. I'm extremely happy with them so far (taped around 20 shows within the last ~~month~~ 2 weeks).

http://www.sanken-mic.com/ (no affiliation, just a happy user)

In the cable section is a topic on how to connect them to a miniplug, just in case.

<EDIT> typo </EDIT>

Evil Taper · « **Reply #7 on:** December 13, 2005, 04:42:21 AM »

buy what your ears like.

nardo · « **Reply #8 on:** December 13, 2005, 05:00:31 AM »

Quote from: Evil Taper on December 13, 2005, 04:42:21 AM

buy what your ears like.

Definitely agree with that. Just thought I'd give another option to consider while at it.

pfife · « **Reply #9 on:** December 13, 2005, 07:42:23 AM »

Not sure how much you care about the physical size of the mics, but a while back I posted comparison pics of the capsules in the rig pics section between these two mics - right after I got the DPAs, and still had the AT853Rx.

As far as sound quality, you know where I stand.

Edited to add: I found the pic:

George · « **Reply #10 on:** December 13, 2005, 08:35:13 AM »

Yep, i heard that nin tape and i'm sold on dpa's, once my concert run finishes (when does it ever?) i'll sell my gear off and take a giant step forward to dpa's and the mt.

Aaron41 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 13, 2005, 11:00:34 AM »

Quote from: Bubba Columbia on December 13, 2005, 07:42:23 AM

Not sure how much you care about the physical size of the mics, but a while back I posted comparison pics of the capsules in the rig pics section between these two mics - right after I got the DPAs, and still had the AT853Rx.

As far as sound quality, you know where I stand.

Edited to add: I found the pic:

My god those things are small. I'd have to buy a new stealth hat.

Unitmonster · « **Reply #12 on:** December 13, 2005, 12:26:08 PM »

a lot of people are saying that they don't worry about the omni issue, but I'd have to disagree. NOt so much on the sound issue but for the level of stress in the show. THe one thing i found when I used omnis was that I was always busy thinking about who was talking and not enjoying the show. Now that I use sub-cards and cards I feel pretty confident taht chatter isn't going to harm my tapes very much and can relax and enjoy myself. Just another perspective.

Aaron41 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 13, 2005, 12:35:40 PM »

Quote from: Unitmonster on December 13, 2005, 12:26:08 PM

a lot of people are saying that they don't worry about the omni issue, but I'd have to disagree. NOt so much on the sound issue but for the level of stress in the show. THe one thing i found when I used omnis was that I was always busy thinking about who was talking and not enjoying the show. Now that I use sub-cards and cards I feel pretty confident taht chatter isn't going to harm my tapes very much and can relax and enjoy myself. Just another perspective.

I'm always thinking about that even with cards. I'm getting better each time I hear that a chatter didn't make it on the tape. But, of course, there is the bass and quality issue. If the phantom-powered cards can produce very good sound I'd almost perfer them to an omni sound.

I'm hoping to borrow a pair of DPA 4061s for an upcoming NIN show. If it turns out solid, I'd pick up a pair for stealthing. If not, I'll look into phantom powered options.

olyrc · « **Reply #14 on:** December 13, 2005, 12:57:15 PM »

I ran AT831s in my first rig, and I've owned/borrowed a few other mics since (Oktavas, Josephsons, AT943) and switched a couple months ago to DPA 4061 > DPA mma6000 > MT2496. I'm massively paranoid about crowd noise, but basically said screw it because of the tapes I'd heard with the DPA 406x. I'm glad I switched.

I ran DFC, 20' from stage in the crowd for two Death Cab for Cutie shows in Portland last month and started to get pissed the first night about some of the crowd noise/chatter around me. (I'm not the best human mic stand - I'm barely 5'8") Then I listened to the tape. You can tell it's a live show, but the crowd fades into the music - no chatter to be found. Even the applause is decent - not overbearing. I'm completely sold on the DPAs and the MT at 24/48 (still waiting for 24/96). Now I just need to get off my ass and get a DVD-Audio program.

That said, if you're still not convinced and decide to go with ATs, I'd recommend the AT943/933 over the AT853 both for size & sound.

That is my $0.02. Go with what your ears like.

Cheers,
Ryan

willndmb · « **Reply #15 on:** December 13, 2005, 01:33:50 PM »

i feel the 853 have a lot of bass compaired to many other mics, might just be my ears
but the 4061 are smallllll and easy to hide

§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥ · « **Reply #16 on:** December 13, 2005, 02:49:12 PM »

I've really been enjoying my AT933 (w/ 853 caps) a lot more since I got the p48 mod done. There's much more bass and overall color to the recordings.

George · « **Reply #17 on:** December 13, 2005, 03:06:30 PM »

I think that omni's and the crowd noise issue is overblown. I was running at853 omni's at a local club a few months ago and this girl (a hottie by the way) was sitting next to me screaming at the top of her lungs. When i listened to the tape it sounded like she was a good 10 feet away and all the chatter was barely recognizable on tape, so i think we all have a tendency to overreact, unless someone screams right into your mics. But that's not to say omni's don't pickup more chatter than cards do...

zowie · « **Reply #18 on:** December 13, 2005, 04:44:37 PM »

Among other things, it depends on the volume of the performance. My attempts to record classical music from the audience with omnis have been very dissatisfying as a result of the obtrusiveness of program rustling, squirming, candy unwrapping, etc. The performers sounded great but I couldn't tolerate all the accompanying noises. Noticeably better with cards.

setboy · « **Reply #19 on:** December 13, 2005, 04:55:13 PM »

Quote from: gloco on December 13, 2005, 03:06:30 PM

I think that omni's and the crowd noise issue is overblown.

QFT

Unitmonster · « **Reply #20 on:** December 13, 2005, 05:44:27 PM »

the other issue for me is where you plan to locate yourself. If you intend to put the legwork into getting into the sweet spot for every show, then that's one thing, if you might want to hang back a bit and find a spot with more breathing room (and less noise) that's different.

For example, I've started to enjoy taping from the front row of balconies rather than the sweet spot on the floor from time to time. Lets me sit down, be a lot more still, and still have a very nice recording. However, from that distance the omnis are less than ideal.

Aaron41 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 14, 2005, 07:28:27 PM »

Quote from: Unitmonster on December 13, 2005, 05:44:27 PM

the other issue for me is where you plan to locate yourself. If you intend to put the legwork into getting into the sweet spot for every show, then that's one thing, if you might want to hang back a bit and find a spot with more breathing room (and less noise) that's different.

For example, I've started to enjoy taping from the front row of balconies rather than the sweet spot on the floor from time to time. Lets me sit down, be a lot more still, and still have a very nice recording. However, from that distance the omnis are less than ideal.

I'm much more into taping in the sweet spot. Maybe I've just put being uncomfortable and taping a good show together too many times. heh

I almost always just hang out FOB. I've yet to go looking for the sweet spot. Maybe I should...

Evil Taper · « **Reply #22 on:** December 15, 2005, 06:35:38 AM »

my favorite tapes are the ones i had to fight for. it's more exciting taping in a mosh pit with moshing 2 feet in front of you than standing in the back calmly, but the air is non-existant sometimes!

pfife · « **Reply #23 on:** December 16, 2005, 07:57:21 PM »

Quote from: Unitmonster on December 13, 2005, 05:44:27 PM

For example, I've started to enjoy taping from the front row of balconies rather than the sweet spot on the floor from time to time. Lets me sit down, be a lot more still, and still have a very nice recording. However, from that distance the omnis are less than ideal.

I enjoy taping from the front row of the balcony, and I think its a great spot for omnis. I love getting the reverb sound of a great sounding room. The front row of the balcony is my favorite spot to be.

fuzn · « **Reply #24 on:** December 16, 2005, 08:46:10 PM »

Quote from: Bubba Columbia on December 16, 2005, 07:57:21 PM

Quote from: Unitmonster on December 13, 2005, 05:44:27 PM
For example, I've started to enjoy taping from the front row of balconies rather than the sweet spot on the floor from time to time. Lets me sit down, be a lot more still, and still have a very nice recording. However, from that distance the omnis are less than ideal.

I enjoy taping from the front row of the balcony, and I think its a great spot for omnis. I love getting the reverb sound of a great sounding room. The front row of the balcony is my favorite spot to be.

Same here. That's what I had for my last tape. Except, the balcony was actually like only like 15 feet above. It was insanely perfect... best tape I could wish for.

These mics are great in the sweet spot, but they do become muddy sounding when far away. Other than that, they are awesome.

Aaron41 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 22, 2005, 02:24:12 AM »

Ok guys... after listening to the Death Cab tape mentioned earlier and some of Bubba's stuff as well... I NEED a pair of DPA 4061s for my next stealth shows.

A few questions though:

1. Is there anyway to buy a pair of DPA 4061s that will be able to just plug into my SP bat box and be ready to go? I keep reading about needing to solder stuff and I really don't want to have to do all that extra stuff or pay extra if I can just buy what I need out of the box.

2. Is there any reason to keep my AT831s now? lol. I love a few tapes I'm made (acoustic stuff) but will shows like this sound better with the 4061s. Is there any situation where you all think the 831s should be run instead of the 4061s

Any help would be great. Thanks to everyone for pointing me in the right direction.

cybermansrev · « **Reply #26 on:** December 22, 2005, 05:39:12 AM »

Quote from: Aaron41 on December 22, 2005, 02:24:12 AM

1. Is there anyway to buy a pair of DPA 4061s that will be able to just plug into my SP bat box and be ready to go? I keep reading about needing to solder stuff and I really don't want to have to do all that extra stuff or pay extra if I can just buy what I need out of the box.

1. E-Bay theres a seller vol71 (I think, no affiliation) who's been offering used 4061's with 1/8 jacks on ready to go (although none are listed today). No idea what condition they're in but look reasonable in the picture. Seller won't do business outside US (which ruled me out) or to people with <5 positive feedbacks.
Or try an ISO in the Yardsale section.

Quote from: Aaron41 on December 22, 2005, 02:24:12 AM

2. Is there any reason to keep my AT831s now? lol. I love a few tapes I'm made (acoustic stuff) but will shows like this sound better with the 4061s. Is there any situation where you all think the 831s should be run instead of the 4061s

2. I'm waiting on a pair I got from the yard sale so can't comment with experience but i think i'll be keeping my AT853's for their cardioid pattern at larger venues, if i'm seated and unable to get to the "stacks" or the "sweet spot". In fact since both mics are so small I'm thinking of taking both to run comparisons during support bands.

nardo · « **Reply #27 on:** December 22, 2005, 07:22:11 AM »

Quote from: Aaron41 on December 22, 2005, 02:24:12 AM

2. Is there any reason to keep my AT831s now? lol. I love a few tapes I'm made (acoustic stuff) but will shows like this sound better with the 4061s. Is there any situation where you all think the 831s should be run instead of the 4061s

I would keep them for stadium shows as well as venues with 'muddy' sound and no option to setup close to the stacks (unless you always want a replication of what it sounded like to be at the show in which case the DPAs would be the better choice). Pretty much what cybermansrev said.

If 'super-stealth' is required then I would always run the DPAs, the AT831s are quite big in my opinion (at least 3-4 times the size of my Sanken COS-11s in diameter which are about the size of DPAs).

divamum · « **Reply #28 on:** December 22, 2005, 11:37:30 AM »

Question: does NOBODY use the SPBMC10 mics? I jsut wonder because they're listed as "comparable to the DPA 406x series" yet I never hear anybody mention them.

I was going to try them in the summer when I had to replace my CMC8s, but they were out of stock and I needed something fast and thus simply replaced what I had. Interestingly, Chris himself recc'd the 8's over the 10's for my needs, but I still wonder... what's the deal with those mics? Who IS using them, and for what? They're certainly an attractive price (as are the 8's - how come the price on those has come down so much suddenly?)

As for DPA 4060, well, the day I win the lottery or get a very VERY big gig, those are the first things on my shoppping list. Yeah, audience noise is a pain, but having used cards (831s in fact) and my CMC8 omnis, I can say that for the recording I do (or should I say the recording I get my stealth bag carriers out in the house to do) I can't always rely on the mics being positioned properly. Good omnis seem to be more forgiving about that, even if I then have to deal with the TB ward sound fx....

setboy · « **Reply #29 on:** December 22, 2005, 11:41:16 AM »

Quote from: divamum on December 22, 2005, 11:37:30 AM

(as are the 8's - how come the price on those has come down so much suddenly?)

i think it is a X mass sale

Author Topic: DPA 4061 vs. AT853 (831?)RX (Read 8494 times)

zowie