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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: sunjan on January 14, 2010, 05:27:42 PM
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The offerings from Tascam looked the most interesting to me. ;D I thought they'd deserve a dedicated thread each...
http://www.tascam.com/products/dr-2d;9,12,3866,16.html
This function might be useful to some of us:
Dual Recording prevents distortion by recording a second track at lower level
TASCAM's DR-2d Portable Digital Recorder brings high-resolution recording to a compact, affordable package. It offers up to 96kHz/24-bit WAV or MP3 recording to SD cards, and recordings can be transferred to computer through high-speed USB 2.0. A new dual recording feature records a copy of your audio at a lower level, so if the level suddenly jumps you have a backup instead of a distorted performance.
* New stereo condenser microphone design with 74dB signal to noise ratio
* Dual recording function records a copy of your audio at a lower level, so you always have a backup in case of overload
* Up to 96kHz/24-bit WAV recording or MP3 recording modes
* Records to SD or SDHC cards
* Internal effects including reverb
* Auto-recording function starts when input exceeds a reference level
* Limiter, low cut filter and auto gain control for input
* Metronome
* Variable Speed Audition changes the playback speed without changing the pitch
* Loop playback mode
* USB 2.0 connection for file transfer
* 1/8" stereo microphone input
* 1/8" stereo line input
* 1/8" stereo headphone output
* 128x64 backlit LCD display
* Powered by two AA batteries or optional PS-P520 power adapter
* Built-in speaker
* Tripod attachment screw hole
* Includes wireless remote control, 2GB SD card, AA batteries and carrying pouch
(http://www.tascam.com/i-3866-17-64-0-BDE53F51.jpg)
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Interesting! This might compete with the Sony PCM M10
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Interesting! This might compete with the Sony PCM M10
I'll believe it when I see it. I don't know why everyone is debating the M10 (eg., vs Edirol). Once you try it you'll be hooked. The mics have extremely low noise, the unit is solid, and the battery life is incredible. What more could you want?
Well, this could contribute directional microphones, but aside from that, I don't think you can improve much on the M10. Well XLR jacks and four tracks but that would make it bigger...
Richard
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Better have a hold button with the record right next to the pause.
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GD it!!! Gimme one of these with a SPDIF in!!!
Terry
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GD it!!! Gimme one of these with a SPDIF in!!!
Terry
How hard can it be? ::)
A modern 24 bitbucket with a couple of onboard mics.....how do these companies keep missing the mark? ::)
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If all you need is a bitbucket, buy a Microtrack II for $175.
If you need other features, like decent sounding built-in
mics, then you'll have to pay a little more.
The DR-2d looks to be the successor to the DR-1, which sells
for about $200 today. I expect that the DR-2d will be priced
at $300 to start, so stores will be able to sell out their stock
of DR-1 units. Then the price of the DR-2d will head downwards.
Flintstone
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The fact that everyone seems to have totally different rigs is not a bad thing. I think Sony products have made a real quality comeback, but I like Tascam for my recordings. Well I would like to have one of EVERY recorder on the market, but that is just me.
I thought this was interesting for those really being watched ste@lth moments:
* Dual recording function records a copy of your audio at a lower level, so you always have a backup in case of overload
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I thought this was interesting for those really being watched ste@lth moments:
* Dual recording function records a copy of your audio at a lower level, so you always have a backup in case of overload
I wonder what that means for recording capacity? How big of card does this thing accept? Pretty cool feature if it's practical.
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GD it!!! Gimme one of these with a SPDIF in!!!
Terry
ditto.
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If all you need is a bitbucket, buy a Microtrack II for $175.
If you need other features, like decent sounding built-in
mics, then you'll have to pay a little more.
Flintstone
I need a bitbucket (non-optical), with decent sounding built-in mics taboot.....again, is that too much to ask? ???
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I need a bitbucket (non-optical), with decent sounding built-in mics taboot.....again, is that too much to ask? ???
Marantz PMD661. Now can we get back on topic? ;D
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I need a bitbucket (non-optical), with decent sounding built-in mics taboot.....again, is that too much to ask? ???
Marantz PMD661. Now can we get back on topic? ;D
Muchos Garcias, Sunjan!
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Looks like a nice upgrade to the DR-1:
DR-2d: 24/96, two AA batteries. recessed, stationary on-board mics, dual recording mode.
DR-1: 24/48, proprietary lithium battery, sliding on-board mics, no dual recording mode.
I love the DR-1 so far. 2 years running and countless shows, and still using the original lithium battery. AA's are king for festies though. Sliding mics are a tiny nuisance when taping down the line-in connection. 24/96 capability and dual recording mode is a big huge plus.
I'm wondering if the sound quality is the same. Will have to wait for Wingfield's samples. The DR-1's Mic-in is superior to the Line-in, for its warm butter smooth. Looking for an upgrade to the Line-in sound. If it is upgraded to the Mic-in sound, I might make the jump to this in `10.
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Soundprofessionals show them @ $299.00
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=TAS-DR-2D
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Sweetwater put up a video demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY_2kzy1BPg
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Pre-orders are $299 with binaurals bundled:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=TAS-DR-2D&source=froogle
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It looks like the second recording is made at a *much* lower level according to the graphic on their site: http://tascam.com/products/dr-2d.html (http://tascam.com/products/dr-2d.html)
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any news about the battery life?
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any news about the battery life?
A decent pair of Duracell rechargeables (2600mah) should get you near 10 hours. The 1800mah lithium on the DR-1 is good for about 5 1/2 hours.
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any news about the battery life?
A decent pair of Duracell rechargeables (2600mah) should get you near 10 hours. The 1800mah lithium on the DR-1 is good for about 5 1/2 hours.
Not that 10 hours is bad or anything, but I was hoping that this one would be a big improvement over the DR-1, especially with the M10 boasting 20+ hours.
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any news about the battery life?
A decent pair of Duracell rechargeables (2600mah) should get you near 10 hours. The 1800mah lithium on the DR-1 is good for about 5 1/2 hours.
Not that 10 hours is bad or anything, but I was hoping that this one would be a big improvement over the DR-1, especially with the M10 boasting 20+ hours.
I don't tape anything that requires 20+ hours of continual roll time. Maybe if I was stealthing the Jerry Lewis Telethon, but that would be the exception. Hope that helps. ;D
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sometimes it's just nice to not have to worry about changing batteries - especially when I'm out in the field for a day or three.
As intriguing as this device is, I've been thinking about the dual-recording function. More specifically, I'm wondering if the preamp is purely digital, where both .wav files can be written before and after digital amplification. I'm not sure how they could do it with an analog preamp unless they have two A/D Converters at different gain stages...but I'd expect that to drive the cost a bit higher. Thoughts anybody?
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User Manual now available: http://tascam.com/i-3890-232-128-0-0B0C770E.pdf
Disappointing battery life, judging on the specification estimates. Too bad, since it is indeed a very interesting package.
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I need a bitbucket (non-optical), with decent sounding built-in mics taboot.....again, is that too much to ask? ???
Marantz PMD661. Now can we get back on topic? ;D
^^
Agreed - Marantz PMD661.
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It looks like the second recording is made at a *much* lower level according to the graphic on their site: http://tascam.com/products/dr-2d.html (http://tascam.com/products/dr-2d.html)
^^^This is not a correct interpretation. You CAN make the 2nd recording much lower...or not. The manual has some pretty cool things. The short version of the dual recording mode is: If you use the "mic in", you can adjust the difference between to recordings from the same source between 6 to 12db in 1db increments. It also looks like you can go 4 channel in the sense that if you use line in and mic in together (2 different sets of mics), it creates 2 totally different recordings. Not 4 channel in the sense you'd need a way to mix, but there also is an overdub mode, so interesting possibilities all around for a fairly inexpensive unit.
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I don't tape anything that requires 20+ hours of continual roll time. Maybe if I was stealthing the Jerry Lewis Telethon, but that would be the exception. Hope that helps. ;D
Well said.
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bump* just in case you didn't see...sound pro's selling at a really great price of $200 on Thursday so if you want to try it out...thats a great price.
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6 hours of recording time on Duracells is not bad. I bet longer on NIMH's. I think the max I could get on the DR-1 was 5 hours and change. And that has never been an issue for me with the DR-1. I might make the plunge for this recorder.
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There are four dual recording modes -
Off, Dual, Mix, Line
Off - well, the feature is off
Dual - two recordings of the same mic recording at different levels (-6dB to -12dB at 1dB increments)
Mix - one recording of mic and line mixed (mix control 1 to 100)
Line - Mic and line to separate files (level 1 to 100)
In addition the second file in any dual recording mode can be auto gain controlled or limited.
File name for the second file describes the mode used to create it.
All pretty neat at the price point.
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Line - Mic and line to separate files (level 1 to 100)
At the price point, this is a HUGE selling point to me. Clock-synced mic and line recordings to mix in post from a $200 recorder is awesome...
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Some first impressions on my DR2D:
I was mainly interested in this unit for the dual recording function, in particular the "line" mode where it can write separate stereo files from the mic and line inputs. There's also a safe mode where you can record the mic input at two sets of levels to guard against clipping which could come in handy in some situations.
The line mode dual recording works pretty much as expected based on the manual. Somewhat unfortunately, that means you CANNOT adjust levels on the line input while recording in dual mode. You can use the Dual button to toggle the level display between the mic and line inputs, but any level adjustments you make affect the mic input and only the mic input even if the line input is selected on the level meter display. This probably isn't a deal killer as line input of 100 on the DR2D seems to match up with 8-9 on the line in of my Edirol R09, which was generally what I used for most board feeds if not a setting just a bit higher - so except for boards with a really hot output (where I'd probably prefer external attenuation than relying on the deck) you'd probably just set the line input to 100 and forget about it and have a recording that peaks in the -12 to -3 dB neighborhood. (I wasn't able to directly test how much the DR2D could attenuate a line signal before distorting, since nothing I own puts out an input hot enough to peg the line in at 100.)
Also of note: I measured the mic plug in power at 2.3V running off NiMH batteries.
Audio quality: For now I'll just post samples, without comments to see what other folks hear without projecting my biases. First a line in comparison with my old Edirol R09. I hooked both recorders up to the line outputs of my DVD player and recorded a few tracks off the Waybacks' Pasture to the Future CD. I know it's a little silly to make a 24bit recording of a 16bit CD, but not as silly as the situations most of us use 24 bit recording in the field, so why not? The DR2d was set to 100 on the line input, the R09 to 9 on line input, and both got peaks in the -3dB neighborhood. I peak normalized both to -0.11dB in post using Sound Studio.
DRD2 sample:
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/TascamTests/DR2Dsample.flac
R09 sample:
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/TascamTests/R09sample.flac
Ultimately, I'm hoping to use this recorder for matrices in the field, taking a line input from the soundboard and mics via the mic in. Preferrably phantom powered mics through a preamp, so I wondered how well the mic input would handle a relatively hot input. For now, I used a recording played back on my FR2LE through it's line outputs into the DR2D's mic input (low sensitvity), adjusting the FR2LE's outputs so that I got the peaks I wanted at various settings on the DRD2.
Running the DRD2 wide open required turning the FR2LE down about half way:
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/TascamTests/TascamMicIn100.flac
Was able to turn the FR2LE up a bit and get good levels at 80 on the DR2D without obvious distortion:
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/TascamTests/TascamMicIn80.flac
Running wide open on the FR2LE required turning the DR2D down to ~60, and the behavior of the level meters made it obvious it was brickwalling:
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/TascamTests/TascamMicIn60.flac
However the FR2LE may be at least partially to blame since it also had some distortion (albeit less) as recorded by the line input of the R09 at 9, usually a safe setting:
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/TascamTests/R09takingFR2LEfullBlast.flac
I've certainly noticed that I cannot listen to headphones at max volume on the FR2LE without them distorting.
Battery tests are now in progress, using 2000mah Duracell pre-charged rechargeables (the sort that are supposed to hold a charge for months) - not the most powerful solution, but the one I find most convenient and a good conservative test. These particular batteries have been sitting around for a few weeks, and were not used in the earlier testing, thus they should be "fresh" save for the effects of sitting around.
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Somewhat unfortunately, that means you CANNOT adjust levels on the line input while recording in dual mode.
Wouldn't this problem be pretty much eliminated if you were using a ST-9100 to feed the line in, as a number of us would be doing? You could attenuate as much as necessary and boost up to 20 db with the ST-9100.
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I think most folks who'd use the line in for DUAL MODE recording would be using the line in for a soundboard feed (while feeding mics, perhaps via preamp, into the mic in), not for mics through a 9100. If you are only recoding from the line in, you can adjust levels while recording just fine.
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Forgive my ignorance, since I have never been interested in doing sound boards (although it does sound interesting as part of a dual recording to be blended later).
But wouldn't it be possible to run the sound board feed through the a ST-9100 and use the attenuation feature to keep the recording from overloading. There could be a problem with the ST-9100's plug in power not being switchable, but I ran battery box into a DAT's mic input many times without a problem.
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Perhaps, but if you run the 9100 to control the soundboard input levels, you no longer have the pre for your mics. They might do fine straight into the mic in, but might not (only 2.3V).
Again, for most boards you won't need to fiddle with the line input levels, but it is a drawback of the recorder that the dual mode gives you no on-the-fly control over the second input.
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You can adjust the levels on the Line In? You couldn't do that on the DR-1. Huge upgrade on Tascam's part, IMO.
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You can adjust the levels on the Line In? You couldn't do that on the DR-1. Huge upgrade on Tascam's part, IMO.
Yes, but it appears to only be attenuation, no gain, and I'm not sure whether it's useful attenuation or just recording a clipped waveform at a lower level - as mentioned in the first post I don't have anything that will peg it at 100.
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if you run the 9100 to control the soundboard input levels, you no longer have the pre for your mics. They might do fine straight into the mic in, but might not (only 2.3V).
Although you can do it if the source is very quiet, most of us wouldn't be running a ST-9100 into mic in anyway. If you also have a battery box on hand, as many of us do, that problem is solved.
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Battery test results (using 2000 mah pre-charged rechargeables):
So I set the DR2D up to record (24/44.1) in dual/line mode, taking signal from an AT822 through the mic in (plug in power off) and from my DVD player through the line in. It recorded for 4 hours and 17 minutes straight until the card was full. It then sat (powered on) for a few minutes until I noticed the card was full, I powered it down long enough to pull out the card and transfer the files to my computer, then turned it back on to do a quick format of the card, which then let me record for all of ten more minutes before I got the low battery warning.
Now, here's something slightly unusual...it automatically stops at the low battery warning, saving your file but not continuing to record. But it stays powered on making you think you might be able to squeeze out a little more recording time, but no, it will record just a few seconds before stopping again with a low battery warning.
So about 4.5 hours of dual recording off 2000 mah batteries, not too shabby but not competitive with some other hand-held options. But since none of them can record two stereo files from two separate inputs...forgivable in my book.
Also of note: The auto-split at 2GB sounds seamless.
And also a size comparison with the R09: The Tascam is a bit longer and wider, but although the picture doesn't make it obvious the Edirol is a bit thicker.
(http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/TascamTests/RecorderComparison.jpg)
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Running wide open on the FR2LE required turning the DR2D down to ~60, and the behavior of the level meters made it obvious it was brickwalling:
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/TascamTests/TascamMicIn60.flac
However the FR2LE may be at least partially to blame since it also had some distortion (albeit less) as recorded by the line input of the R09 at 9, usually a safe setting:
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/TascamTests/R09takingFR2LEfullBlast.flac
Hmm, so going DVD line out > Tascam DR2D mic in (low) required ~70 to get the levels below full scale, and the resulting file was not obviously brickwalled.
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thanks for all the great feedback. Any comments on it's on board mics or mic inputs in relation to the noise floor.
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Thank you for the information. What would you reckon about the build quality? And have you tried testing battery time not using dual recording?
Thanks.
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Hmm. Build quality is about what you'd expect for the price. Plasticky, but not fragile feeling. I don't particularly like that the battery door completely detaches from the body, and the cover for the SD card slot is not very good either - a rubber rectangle you pry off that is tethered to the body by a short length of rubber. Seems like it could easily wear out if you swapped the card out every time you transferred files rather than using a USB cable.
Might do some more battery testing this weekend, not using dual record and/or higher capacity NiMHs.
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so let me get this straight...this will record line in and mic in at the same time. so is this some type of new 4 channel recorder?
OOK
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Basically, yes. It does not have all the functionality of a true 4 track recorder, but you can simultaneously record the mic inputs and line inputs to separate stereo files.
I am assuming both inputs / ADCs share the same clock so mixing in post should be straightforward, with maybe a single time shift for mics vs board. But does anyone know if it's possible the two ADCs could be on separate clocks?
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Basically, yes. It does not have all the functionality of a true 4 track recorder, but you can simultaneously record the mic inputs and line inputs to separate stereo files.
I am assuming both inputs / ADCs share the same clock so mixing in post should be straightforward, with maybe a single time shift for mics vs board. But does anyone know if it's possible the two ADCs could be on separate clocks?
wow that's pretty cool....
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But does anyone know if it's possible the two ADCs could be on separate clocks?
Highly unlikely as that would defeat the purpose. It's probably a single chip.
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But does anyone know if it's possible the two ADCs could be on separate clocks?
Highly unlikely as that would defeat the purpose. It's probably a single chip.
I hope you are right, my only concern is that if the target audience is just going to be recording a song or two at a time, clock drift isn't a real concern. This weekend I'll do a long dual recording on mic in to see if there's any drift...
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Another test with 2000 mah pre-charged NiMHs: 4 hrs 50 minutes recording mic in, plug in power on, not dual mode. Should be a bit better with regular high capacity NiMHs.
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A couple mic-in samples from the field. Not the best location, but you can compare with Audix M1290 hypers > FR2LE in the same location.
Microphone Madness version Sennheiser MKE40s > 9V BBox > DR2d mic in:
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/DeepElemMKE40.flac
Microphone Madness version Sennheiser MKE40s > DR2d mic in (plug in power, no battery box):
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/MoonManMKE40.flac
Audix > FR2LE from the same location:
http://www.archive.org/details/isd2010-03-20.m1290hc.flac16f
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what's disappointing is you can't use dual mode from the line in alone. Would be nice to run things a little bit hotter on the pre and not worry about clipping in stealth situations (as long as the input could handle it)
hmmm. I might just be going sony. Any comparisons of sound quality between the M10 and DR-2d?
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I just scored one. Gonna give it its maiden voyage at Wanee. :)
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Something funky with the 2 gig autosplit last night. New, untested SD card may have been the culprit, haven't been able to reproduce it. But I was in dual recording mode and when the recorder hit the 2 gig limit, the timer froze at 2:15:xx (whatever 2 gigabytes is at 24/44.1) with 0:00 remaining, but the record icon was still displayed, the levels behaved as normally in response to the input sound, and the record light stayed lit. No response to any button pressing. Eventually, over an hour later, it displayed a "file error" message and became responsive again, but could not play back the files. They display on my computer as 0 kb files, although the remaining disk space seems about right for 2 x 3 hours of 24/44.1 audio being present. No luck with any recovery tools tried to date, or opening the files in Sound Studio or Audacity.
Kind of a bummer. Will try to manually start new files before the 2 gig limit whenever possible in the future, just in case. But will do more testing at home seeing if I can reproduce this weird error.
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what's disappointing is you can't use dual mode from the line in alone. Would be nice to run things a little bit hotter on the pre and not worry about clipping in stealth situations (as long as the input could handle it)
That and batteries are my two questions. Battery is fine but line n on dual mode is a disappointment. I have a DR-100 which I like but for a smaller unit I am considering.
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Something funky with the 2 gig autosplit last night. New, untested SD card may have been the culprit, haven't been able to reproduce it. But I was in dual recording mode and when the recorder hit the 2 gig limit, the timer froze at 2:15:xx (whatever 2 gigabytes is at 24/44.1) with 0:00 remaining, but the record icon was still displayed, the levels behaved as normally in response to the input sound, and the record light stayed lit. No response to any button pressing. Eventually, over an hour later, it displayed a "file error" message and became responsive again, but could not play back the files. They display on my computer as 0 kb files, although the remaining disk space seems about right for 2 x 3 hours of 24/44.1 audio being present. No luck with any recovery tools tried to date, or opening the files in Sound Studio or Audacity.
Kind of a bummer. Will try to manually start new files before the 2 gig limit whenever possible in the future, just in case. But will do more testing at home seeing if I can reproduce this weird error.
I had this happen to me with the DR100. Pissed me off. New untested SD card too.
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Something funky with the 2 gig autosplit last night. New, untested SD card may have been the culprit, haven't been able to reproduce it. But I was in dual recording mode and when the recorder hit the 2 gig limit, the timer froze at 2:15:xx (whatever 2 gigabytes is at 24/44.1) with 0:00 remaining, but the record icon was still displayed, the levels behaved as normally in response to the input sound, and the record light stayed lit. No response to any button pressing. Eventually, over an hour later, it displayed a "file error" message and became responsive again, but could not play back the files. They display on my computer as 0 kb files, although the remaining disk space seems about right for 2 x 3 hours of 24/44.1 audio being present. No luck with any recovery tools tried to date, or opening the files in Sound Studio or Audacity.
Kind of a bummer. Will try to manually start new files before the 2 gig limit whenever possible in the future, just in case. But will do more testing at home seeing if I can reproduce this weird error.
I had this happen to me with the DR100. Pissed me off. New untested SD card too.
Several auto splits went off without a hitch today, same card that gave me problems Tuesday night. ??? That night I had the recorder covered up with a sweater and it got rather hot, :hmmm:
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Looks like previous post in this thread was lost. But, I ordered one of these for 4 track recording. Should be very nice for my AT822 + SBD.
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just got mine in the mail today. feels much more sturdy than the dr-07 i had first. it is plastic and metal not just plastic. nice touch. buttons feel nice. i don't like the SD slot. the cover is difficult to get off. i was unsure if i was going to break the door with the amount of force i had to use. may just be my unit or it may just be because it's new. I don't change cards often and transfer from the device so it's not that big of a deal. I am looking forward to running the dual mode.i just have to read about it and test at home before i take this to a show unprepared.
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Potentially cool hand-held recorder.
I'm interested solely for the dual-channel recording feature. Lack of gain control on the line-input is somewhat of a bummer though. I'd be using two CA-UGLY preamps in front of the DR-2D, which are clumsy to gain-adjust channel by channel while recording. I'd far prefer that the gain for both mic and line inputs be controlled simultaneously to keep the relative gains matched between channel pairs.
As it is I pocket two R-09s and sync in post, so the attraction for me is obvious. Please let me know how use of the dual channel feature pans out in use.
Battery life could be better, but I could live with that. I have a pile of large capacity Kingston class 4 cards for the R-09s and R-44, so I hope those turn out to work alright. TIA for real world usage reports.
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Keep in mind the line in does have gain control of sorts (really just variable attenuation), it just gets locked down at the start of dual recording mode. I try to get my levels conservatively right to start and only adjust gain on the fly in emergencies, so I'm not sure how much of a liability the inability to adjust the line input while recording would be in practice. Never mind that rather than fixing too hot levels by trying to attenuate at the recorder stage, I'd rather send a lower level signal into the unit.
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Agreed, & I try to run the same way. Yet I record many odd acoustic/semi-acoustic things where the SPL level is unknown beforehand. Typically at that point I'm increasing the gain above an overly-conservative initial setting. That change is usually made during an intermission while not recording, so it wouldn't be a major issue, but occasionally I need to go the otherway and trim down if the music is much louder than I guessed.
I suppose I could build a simple in-line dual-stereo variable-attenuator box to patch between preamps and recorder. That would allow me to match gains between all channels using the preamp gains, run them a bit hotter than necessary and leave those controls untouched. I could then have a single level adjustment control, manipulating a small range of attenuation before the recorder, say 12-15db.
Mostly thinking outloud at this point. Just the sync and single set of tranport controls would be a huge advantage. Did you determine if there is any drift between stereo pairs? Auto split problems ever reappear?
I haven't owned a Tascam deck since I had an 80's portatrack 4-channel cassette. How good has Tascam been at updating problems like card compatibility, auto-spit issues, etc, via firmware updates?
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Mu autosplit problems have not repeated. It may be heat related, I had the recorder covered by a sweater when it happened and it was quite warm to the touch (could be an issue for stealthers). Or the heat might have resulted from the unit locking up and the processor going haywire?
I haven't had the chance to run a test on line vs mic in dual mode drift. Maybe this weekend. It's hard but not impossible to imagine a way the recorder could be wired that would allow drift.
This is my first Tascam so I can't speak to the frequency of firmware updates, etc.
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Thanks Will. The heat issue could be a potential problem for me, if it really was the cause problem. I'll keep a close eye on the thread, maybe borrow Spyder's to test for a few dates if I can.
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I thought I would add my experience to the thread. Prior to last night I had recorded maybe 8 shows with my DR-2D. I have the autosplit set to 512MB and am running mic-in with small omnis and a battery box. A couple of the recordings were at 24 bit / 48 kHz, but most were at 24/96. My memory card is an Adata, 8 GB, class 10. I had not had any problems with the autosplit or anything else. Last night that changed. The card was "Quick Formatted" immediately prior to the show because I did not want to individually delete the files that were on it.
1st band was recorded 24bit/96k mic in. No problems. (3 files due to autosplit, 1.3 GB total)
2nd band was recorded dual input, line (soundboard feed) + mic at 24bit/96k
Twice during the 2nd band, I received a 'Write Timeout" error. It appears that these errors occurred at 4.2, and 3.6 MB into fresh files after a split occurred. The error put the recording on pause (flashing LED) and I had to press stop and then record to get the recording to resume. Fortunately I was open taping and the obscenely bright record led clued me into the problem. I was literally 15-20 feet away from the recorder and noticed the flashing led when it went into the error.
Further investigation of one of the files finds that there is duplication of data. If the sections represented by samples 139,793 - 437,009 and 437,009 - 734,225 are compared, they appear identical. In fact, using Audacity I lined up those two segments and inverted the second. Playing them back together resulted in silence.
I will be submitting this information to the Tascam people and will post here if they have something useful to say. I will try to replicate this problem with the card in question and with a Sandisk Extreme III 4GB card to see if it could be possibly related to the card.
Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions about other possibilities?
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Thanks for the report. No suggestions, other than I hope our problems can be addressed by a firmware update. I'll be avoiding having to autosplit in the field as much as I can in the meantime. The remote may come in handy there.
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hmm sounds annoying but good to know. if it gets close just fast forward to the next track between songs.
kingdong: why would you set your autosplit to 512mb? doesn't seem to make sense to set it any lower than 2gigs. what was the reason behind it?
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kingdong: why would you set your autosplit to 512mb? doesn't seem to make sense to set it any lower than 2gigs. what was the reason behind it?
I had it set lower get more track splits to get more data points as to whether track splits would be a problem. 512 seemed like a good middle ground between data points generated and the tedium of stitching the multiple files together.
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I got my DR-2d on Friday. Tried my old set of Energizer 2500mAh rechargeables, and with duel mode (mic/line), 24/48, they only lasted an hour. While old, these still got 5-6 hrs in my R-09HR.
Bought some new Energizer 2300 mAh rechargeables. Same duel recording settings as above, and they filled my 8GB card, quick reformatted it, and ran for an additional 1hr50min. Total recording time was 5hr45min, including some standby time between filling the card and continuing recording (about 11.5GB total recorded).
I'm now running a battery life test just using the internal mics (not dual mode). Will report back tonight.
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I got my DR-2d on Friday. Tried my old set of Energizer 2500mAh rechargeables, and with duel mode (mic/line), 24/48, they only lasted an hour. While old, these still got 5-6 hrs in my R-09HR.
Bought some new Energizer 2300 mAh rechargeables. Same duel recording settings as above, and they filled my 8GB card, quick reformatted it, and ran for an additional 1hr50min. Total recording time was 5hr45min, including some standby time between filling the card and continuing recording (about 11.5GB total recorded).
I'm now running a battery life test just using the internal mics (not dual mode). Will report back tonight.
Looks like using the internal mics netted me appx the same recording time (5hr45min) as dual mode (mic/line).
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Before I sold my R-09HR to a coworker, I ran a line-in comparison with the DR-2d. The recording chain was Pioneer DV-588A-S > Kind Kables > recorder.
The R-09HR was set to level 35, and the DR-2d was set to level 100. This produced essentially identical peak and RMS levels. Recordings are 24bit 48kHz, because that's the setting I use for recording. One thing I noticed was that the peak light went off on the DR-2d during Box Of Rain, even though the peak is only around -1.7dB. Maybe it lights up at -2dB?
Track 1 is "The Lighthouses Tale" (Nickel Creek SACD):
DR-2d: http://files.me.com/galiziofamily/ef8gam.wav
R-09HR: http://files.me.com/galiziofamily/aeuzd0
Track 2 is "Box Of Rain" (Grateful Dead - American Beauty DVD-A):
DR-2d: http://files.me.com/galiziofamily/vkzdk8.wav
R-09HR: http://files.me.com/galiziofamily/e5sldb
To me, the ADCs of these devices sound very similar, and very good. With the dual recording of the DR-2d, it was a no brainer for me to sell the R-09HR, even though it has been a very trusty recorder.
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An update to my previous post...
I still have received no reply from Tascam. I will try to contact them again next week.
I think the SD card may have been the issue. Sadly, this may mean that the DR-2D is picky about cards, but that will probably remain 'to be determined' as more people add data points.
This weekend I ran tests on the recorder with it set to 24bit/96kHz, dual input (line + mic). I set the file split to 128k to bump up the number of file splits since that seemed to be the boundary condition that caused problems for me and others. I fed the line-in with the audio output of my computer and the mic-in with ambient room noise.
Using the previously mentioned card: Adata, 8 GB, class 10 I found that I was able to reproduce the 'Write Timeout' error. This would happen consistently before the card was full and typically multiple times before the card was full.
I switched to a card on the 'tested media list': Sandisk Extreme III, 4 GB, class 6 I was not able to reproduce the problem during 3 complete fillings of the card.
I would like to propose/request that others with the DR-2D might try this experiment and report back their result. I can envision 3 likely outcomes: 1) The recorder is sensitive to/particular about which SD card you use. 2) The recorder does not (consistently) handle cards that are too fast* 3) I have a flaky DR-2D
I would assume that 1) is the likely outcome, but it shouldn't take too many data points to start to see a pattern emerge here.
* I realize that the 'Tested Media List' from Tascam's web site lists some Sandisk class 10 cards, but it also specifically says '30MB/sec'. My understanding is that class 10 is supposed to be minimum 10 MB/sec, and from the where I purchased the Adata card, I am led to believe that it is 23 MB/sec.
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Hmm. Spent a few hours recording in dual mode, line+mic, at 24/96 with a 64 MB autosplit. Same Kingston 16 GB card I had problems with once in the field. Over a hundred auto-splits without a hiccup. ???
Also did a 2 hour recording at 24/44.1 do confirm that there isn't drift between the stereo pairs. There does not seem to be any drift.
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Try Transcend cards guys. I use them with the DR-1 and never had a problem.
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I downloaded the samples above. DR-2d separates itself from the R09HR, with very good bass response. DR-1 has very good bass response too. I might do a comp between the DR-1 and DR-2d. Thanks for the upload.
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i'm very new to taping shows, but below is a link to a recording i made at a small venue in early april. the recording was made with the tascam dr-2d's internal microphones. i was seated far to the left of the stage and the recorder itself was not pointed towards the stage...the recorder was just sitting on a bar...but it's still a very enjoyable recording...i think.
http://zepidemic.net/mp3/sample/01.mp3 (http://zepidemic.net/mp3/sample/01.mp3)
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great thread!
Maybe I'm missing it, but what are the size measurements of the DR-2d? I know a picture was posted with this next to a R-09, but from the Tascam site, I'm seeing that info for other models, just not this model:
DR-100
Dimensions: 3.2" W x 1.4" H x 6" D (80.5mm x 35mm x 151mm)
DR-07
Dimensions: 2.2" W x 5.3" L x 1.1" H
DR-08
Dimensions: 1.45" W x 5.41" L x 0.59" H (37mm x 137.5mm x 15mm)
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Dimensions (W x H x D)
65 x 118 x 24 mm
2.559 x 4.646 x 0.945 i
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My 1st time out with the DR-2d:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=135284.0
It's heavy on the SBD because the hall (a church) was very echoey.
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Just ordered one of these suckers and am excited to try it with my band this weekend. The plan is to use the dual recording function to run board mix into line-in and CA-11>CA-9100>mic-in. Does anyone know what settings to use through the mic-in to have it at unity (the equivalent of the line-in) so I can use the CA-9100 to provide the gain and keep the internal preamp out of the signal chain? ???
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I've also been wondering how to set things on the recorder to have the gains matched evenly across both pairs of channels. I've read the manual but haven't seen or played with the recorder yet. I'd be using the dual recording feature with identical signal chains into both the line and mic inputs, recording 4 identical channels that I want to keep gain matched.
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IIRC, mic in, low sens, with recording level around 60-70 should get similar levels to line in at 100. Experimentation should reveal the exact value.
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in my two shows dual recording i have noticed that 70 is about right for mic in low.
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Thanks Will and Crazyfingers. I'm going to be recording my band this Friday, the same day the DR-2D is supposed to arrive, so no time to experiment with settings. Your settings will give me a good start. ;D
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I just got my DR-2D yesterday and will bet testing it out tonight. (Tonight is the last night of Buddy Guys Legends at the original location..Moving 3 doors down.. the grand opening of the new Legends is right around the Crossroads.. lets see EC and 30 other greats are in town.. !!)
One question.. I want to take out the SD card but the compartment door seems a bit tight and isn't opening too easy. The manual shows the door just pulling out but i cant get it to pull out without feeling like its going to snap off. Anyone else have trouble opening it for the 1st time?
I found a good CF card speed test comparison at the Sound Devices web site. The were tested on a 788T. While its not reflective of what works for the DR-2D ot the speed when used by the DR-2D, its still good info to look. Here is the URL http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/file-formats/cf-speeds/
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Got mine on Friday and recorded my band two nights in a row using the Dual/Line function (recording mic-in and line-in to separate files). This is the first recorder I've bought since using the Iriver H120 for many successful years. I'll share my thoughts on the DR-2D.
Let's start with the good. The overdub and Dual functions work well. The audio quality is great, noticeably better than the Iriver, even though I used an external preamp with both (better converters). The unit is easy to use.
Now the bad. The battery life is a f-ing joke. I put in what I thought were my best NIMH batteries for night one and got about 30 seconds of recording before the low-battery warning came on and shut off the recording. Switched to the alkalines that came with the unit and got maybe an hour--missed quite a bit of the show. On night two I had the same thing happen with the rechargeables. This time I was prepared with a bunch of new Energizer Max backups. I only got about 3 hours on a set of them and ended up not recording a song before I noticed and put another pair in. I don't know, maybe this was because I had it set for NIMH internally, but whatever, it still sucks.
While I'm griping, the unit is significantly larger than my H120, barely OK for pocketing. If you're going to be doing a lot of st..lth recording, I'd go with a smaller unit.
Finally, when recording in the Dual/Line mode, even with the limiter turned on, it seems to only work on the mic-in, not the line-in. I found this out on night one when I had the line-in from the soundboard too high and got nasty clipping. I still think nothing beats the Safety feature on Rockboxed Irivers and am baffled as to why nobody includes this on retail units.
I'm going to keep the DR-2D because the Dual/Line function is really nice for recording my band and the Dual Rec function (recording a backup file at a lower level) will also be handy for taping (although just having the Safety feature would render this need moot). I just ordered some new Eneloop batteries and will probably get the Tascam AC adapter for when I record my band.
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When I first got my DR-2d, I did some battery life tests on it and found that my old rechargeables didn't last very long, though they still worked well with my old R-09HR. I'm thinking this recorder is sensitive to the voltage put out by the batteries. I don't have any way to test and confirm this suspicion, though.
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Wow, sounds like spectacularly bad battery life for HarpDoc. I've consistently gotten over 4hrs out of 2000mah NiMHs. If new batteries don't fix your problem, perhaps you have a lemon. Did you make sure the internal speaker was switched off and the backlight set to go off in a reasonable amount of time?
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Yes, speaker off and display light set to default, which seems to shut off pretty fast. Good point about maybe having a lemon. I'll test it with the new batteries and return it if I don't get around 5 hours.
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Battery issues aside, I'm discovering that in addition to the cool Dual functions, this thing is a great tool for songwriters. The internal mics are surprisingly nice for recording vocals and acoustic instruments (haven't tried them on an actual band). Attached is a quick test I did using the Overdub feature and some internal reverbs. I layered a total of 6 takes using the internal mics on vocals, harmonica, shakers, and a drum, recording in 24/96 mode. The only thing I did on the computer is normalize, trim down the file, and mix down to Ogg format. Hard to believe that not long ago we were using 4-track cassettes, bouncing, and adding tons of noise (I guess I'm showing my age).
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Got more than 6 hours of Dual recording with newly charged Eneloops. As previously stated, the dr-2d seems to be picky about battery voltage. I bet a set of nizn batteries would rock in this deck, since they put out 1.6v rather than 1.2 from nimh.
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I asked the same question in the DR-680 thread, but I'll ask here too as I'm interested in both and the last Tascam deck I used was a cassette portastudio in the late 80's:
What happens with an intermittant power blip? With my Edirol recorders, at worst the recorder's settings remain intact, I can resume recording to the same card, the file can be simply transfered off card later with the good files and I just need to rewrite a new file header.. the occurance may be rare, but shit happens, and less than graceful performance when an unexpected power blip occurs would be a big step back in reliability and potential agravation IMO.
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The same NiMH batteries that used to give me 4.5 hrs are now giving me ~2. May have tracked it down to one particular battery that ended up at much lower voltage. So the battery life on this unit is far from stellar to begin with, and it looks to be very picky about battery condition as well.
That said, I am benefiting from another cool part of the dual recording functionality. My main mics are Audix M1290s, which I love, but they are pretty sensitive to wind even with dead rats - the smallish size of even "large" wdinscreens for mics this small just limits what can be done. So I did dual recording with Audix>Littlebox>Line in and AT822 (with a big fat head and dead rat) > Mic in at an outdoor concert in the Sierra foothills which I figured could get windy, and did. Two perfectly synced recordings to easily line up for cross fades for the couple songs with serious wind issues. :)
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I asked the same question in the DR-680 thread, but I'll ask here too as I'm interested in both and the last Tascam deck I used was a cassette portastudio in the late 80's:
What happens with an intermittant power blip? With my Edirol recorders, at worst the recorder's settings remain intact, I can resume recording to the same card, the file can be simply transfered off card later with the good files and I just need to rewrite a new file header.. the occurance may be rare, but shit happens, and less than graceful performance when an unexpected power blip occurs would be a big step back in reliability and potential agravation IMO.
The Tascam firmware is superior to the Edirol's IMO, for I have never experienced a header issue in the 2 years I've recorded with the DR-1. Never. However, I did have header issues with the original R09 on 2 occasions. Tascam's firmware is flawless in terms of reliability.
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I asked the same question in the DR-680 thread, but I'll ask here too as I'm interested in both and the last Tascam deck I used was a cassette portastudio in the late 80's:
What happens with an intermittant power blip? With my Edirol recorders, at worst the recorder's settings remain intact, I can resume recording to the same card, the file can be simply transfered off card later with the good files and I just need to rewrite a new file header.. the occurance may be rare, but shit happens, and less than graceful performance when an unexpected power blip occurs would be a big step back in reliability and potential agravation IMO.
The Tascam firmware is superior to the Edirol's IMO, for I have never experienced a header issue in the 2 years I've recorded with the DR-1. Never. However, I did have header issues with the original R09 on 2 occasions. Tascam's firmware is flawless in terms of reliability.
Good to hear Dan, so just to confirm, the current file is saved OK when the batteries die on your DR1 & DR2?
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Took my new DR-2D out stealthing in Europe for Clapton/Winwood running MK4s with an NBox. Very good results but battery life is a definite weak spot. Unless I used Lithium AAs. I was hard pressed for much more than two hours. Unfortunately I learned that the hard way in Birmingham. I haven't had the opportunity to use the dual mode yet nor have I used the mic inputs but aside from the battery issues I think its a good little recorder
Birmingham
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=304630
Wembley 1
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=304873
Wembley 2
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=305091
Antwerp
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=305452
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Good news.
1) Tested the 2d with a brand new set of Energizer 2450 rechargeables. Ran 24/44.1 with the onboard mics and got 5:44:59 total recording time. I got 4:38:15 from a pair of Duracell Coppers when I did that test a few weeks ago.
2) When the batteries run out, a "low battery" message comes on, and the track is automatically saved.
+T to Tascam.
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Reading back on the posts, looks like NIMH 1.2v rechargeables have issues with this unit as the bats gets older. Quick like.
Anybody try these 1.6v NIZN bats by Powergenix?
http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/09/powergenix-nizn-rechargeable-aa-batteries-finally-some-cells-w/
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Reading back on the posts, looks like NIMH 1.2v rechargeables have issues with this unit as the bats gets older. Quick like.
Anybody try these 1.6v NIZN bats by Powergenix?
http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/09/powergenix-nizn-rechargeable-aa-batteries-finally-some-cells-w/
Hmm, one potential drawback I see is that the same auto-stop and save at low voltage you were praising could also lead to seriously premature shutdown if the DR2d doesn't "know" how to interpret the NiZn discharge curve. Can you run the voltage on these down as low as you would a NiMH?
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I have some older 2500 targus NiMH that will last no more than two hours in the dr2d. The same batteries last four hours or so in the edirol r-09. I just got some Powerex 2700 NIMH, however, and they last well over four hours in the dr2d. So yeah it's power hungry but the ability to use dual mode to record two identical tracks at different levels is tits for when you're not sure what the dynamic range is gonna be. Wish u could do dual mode with the line-in, but these ears can't tell the difference between the mic in / line-in recordings using on my playback equipment.
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So I guess we need to figure out how to keep our new batteries as new for the longest period of time. I'm assuming the discharge curve of an older battery loses voltage faster than a new one. Are certain batteries better at retaining their voltage over time/recharge cycles than others? Are certain chargers better for the same thing? I'd hate to be surprised that my 5.5hr batteries suddenly net only 2hrs during a show.
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My guss that if set for "alkaline" it would work fine with nizn batteries, since alkaline put out 1.5v. We need someone to be our guinea pig. I'd do it if i didn't just but 8 eneloops and an ac adapter for my dr-2d.
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Picked up a Dr2d at Guitar Center (they will price match B&H at $239) and took it to a festival.
Here's my thoughts after using it fairly heavily over the festi weekend..
* Battery life sucks...but we knew that already
* The dual recording function works well...took me a few tries to figure out that you have to set the input to mic then the dual function to line but I was drinking and didn't read the manual as thoroughly as I should have.
* The meters are crap compared to my PMD620 but I like the numerical peak readout.
* The mic input will brickwall on loud sources. I patched out of Zman's 722 and it was bricked. Patched out of ScottT's DR07 and it was perfect.Another taper took it as part of a second rig to cover some sets at other stages and one of the recordings looks brickwalled but sounds okay. I'm guessing he ran mic in out of the preamp instead of line in.
* Sounds a little brighter than my 620 (which I think sounds fairly neutral) but has excellent bass response. I used it for some AK30 split omni recordings and they turned out real nice.
* Used the internal mics to record an acoustic blues singer down at my corner pub....bright sounding mics but fine for what they are.
* Got some static pops at the beginning of some sets...I think the input jacks may be susceptible to noise from the plug getting moved around in the jack when handling it during recording. I don't stealth so I'll just figure out a way to not mess with it while running or slap some gaff tape on it to keep it secure.
All in all I'm happy with it...having a four channel handheld is pretty badass. Since I've started running my Littlebox I have so much room in my gear bag I can carry both recorders and all the necessary cables to patch SBDs for when the opportunity presents itself.
****I ran the Dr2d on a Tekkeon battery for two days and didn't even use half. Expensive but awesome solution for open taping at festivals and such. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for one of those Digital Concepts 5v batts that I used to use with my MT.
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Lenmar powerport works great! I used mine with the MTII and Ted made me a cable for my H120. It will hold a charge for a really long time.
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****I ran the Dr2d on a Tekkeon battery for two days and didn't even use half. Expensive but awesome solution for open taping at festivals and such. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for one of those Digital Concepts 5v batts that I used to use with my MT.
Not a bad idea to pick up one of those 5v batteries... Can you run the DR-2d with an external and internal batteries?
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yes and it doesn't stutter when the external power drops out. i run mine off an external 5v battery, no worries.
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I just ordered a Tekkeon TekCharge.
http://www.adorama.com/TEMP1550.html?utm_source=ET&utm_medium=TransactionalEmail&utm_campaign=2point0Product1
It's only $22 with free shipping. Uses 4 aa batteries instead of an internal lithium polymer. I'm sure it won't provide nearly as much power, but I have lots of nimh batteries laying around that I can use with it and I'm a cheapskate, plus it can charge the batteries for you.
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Stealthed a 3 hour outdoor show last night running straight in with no external pre. Excellent take and 3 out of 4 bars left with Eneloops. They are great batteries.
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I was premature in reporting my "great take" running without a preamp with my CA-11's straight into the mic input. Mixing it down with a good set of monitors I discovered subtle distortion, even though the meters did not peak. Looking at the L/R waveforms, they are unbalanced a bit. My assumption is that the plug-in power without the pre/battery box was insufficient. What's disappointing is that it was not a super loud show by rock standards. Further evidence that, with it's size and low plug-in power voltage, this is not an ideal stealth rig.
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My guss that if set for "alkaline" it would work fine with nizn batteries, since alkaline put out 1.5v. We need someone to be our guinea pig. I'd do it if i didn't just but 8 eneloops and an ac adapter for my dr-2d.
I've been playing around with one of these. As noticed by others, the low self-discharge NiMH's I use in other recorders drop voltage in this one and shut-down rapidly, so I've been using alkalines.
I'd rather not use an external supply most of the time.
Anyone try the 1.6v NiZn's yet?
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Well, the Tekcharge 1550 was a failure. Did not come with tip that fit so I had to order one. Ran test and after one good 2gb file got recording error with unreadable file. Hit record again and same thing. I guess if you're going with an external battery you need to use one of the more expensive ones that puts out more juice. :(
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I'm curious.. ;)
Are the microphones in the DR-2d facing more towards the "operator" or more towards the top/corner grills? Or does it capture sound equally from both directions?
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^^^
Dunno. Sounds pretty good gaffer taped directly to the top corner face of an acoustic guitar though. Which is the only way I've used the internal mics. ;)
On the powering front:
Received the PowerGenix 1.6V NiZn batteries and charger yesterday. Batteries now charged. I'll report back after I get around to running some tests.
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^^^
Dunno. Sounds pretty good gaffer taped directly to the top corner face of an acoustic guitar though. Which is the only way I've used the internal mics. ;)
On the powering front:
Received the PowerGenix 1.6V NiZn batteries and charger yesterday. Batteries now charged. I'll report back after I get around to running some tests.
:D you gaffered the whole unit on to a guitar? hehe, nice. Creativity ftw.
I have ordered my DR-2d now. Got enough black/silver gadgets, so I went for the pearly white edition (DR-2dw) 8)
Ordered Sanyo Eneloop batteries too, and will try, test and report back here
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:D you gaffered the whole unit on to a guitar? hehe, nice. Creativity ftw.
I have ordered my DR-2d now. Got enough black/silver gadgets, so I went for the pearly white edition (DR-2dw) 8)
Ordered Sanyo Eneloop batteries too, and will try, test and report back here
Yeah, I was playing around with the multi-track feature and the resonance of the guitar transmitted through the recorder body beefed up it's tone nicely, plus the mics were then well placed for vocals. Pretty funny looking but effective as a quick demo/writing tool.
NiMH might work OK when they are new, but my 2 year old low self-discharge MAHA Imedeons (same tech as the Eneloops, but reportedly test slightly better) do not run it for more than a few minutes before droping voltage enough to stop recording, although playback runs somewhat longer. The same batteries work fine in my Edirols. This recorder seems more Voltage sensitive, which is the reason for trying the 1.6V NiZn cells. Just be aware of it... and welcome to the forum. :)
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This recorder seems more Voltage sensitive, which is the reason for trying the 1.6V NiZn cells. Just be aware of it... and welcome to the forum. :)
Thanks
Do let us know how those NiZn's are working :)
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Has anyone had any success with an external battery? I ran this for the 2nd time last night, and everything went OK with my new Energizer rechargeables, but the temperament of this recorder with batteries makes me a bit nervous.
Can anyone else vouch for using an old set of eneloops? I'm wondering if this recorder responds the same way to old eneloops as it does old standard brand rechargeables. Maybe eneloops hold their voltage better with age compared to other brands.
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On the powering front:
Received the PowerGenix 1.6V NiZn batteries and charger yesterday. Batteries now charged. I'll report back after I get around to running some tests.
~3.5 hrs recording @ 24/24 in dual mode- writing two stereo files for line & mic in (the primary way I'll use it).
File set 1 = 2:04:12
(auto split)
File set 2 = 1:28:36
(shut down)
Pretty weak. I'm dissapointed. Though possibly the batteries need to cycle a few times to achieve max charge. I'll have to try regular NiMH, see how they do, and if better just remember to charge right before use and keep an eye on run time as they age.
[edit- ran it again with the second pair of NiZn batteries and got almost 4 hrs: file set 1= 2:04:12, file set 2 = 1:52:04. Files closed fine both times and can be x-fered off the card without issues]
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Pretty weak. I'm dissapointed. Though possibly the batteries need to cycle a few times to achieve max charge. I'll have to try regular NiMH, see how they do, and if better just remember to charge right before use and keep an eye on run time as they age.
[edit- ran it again with the second pair of NiZn batteries and got almost 4 hrs: file set 1= 2:04:12, file set 2 = 1:52:04. Files closed fine both times and can be x-fered off the card without issues]
Did you change the battery setting? ALKAL / Ni-MH
Maybe the NiZn needs to be set to Alkaline, since the voltage is so high
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Set to alkaline.
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Set to alkaline.
Try Ni-MH then? I'm not sure what it does excactly (just guessing voltage), but maybe one of them is better than the other for that type of batteries :)
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Alkaline would be the closer setting voltage wise as they are 1.5V nominal, vs 1.2 for NiMH. It probably just calibrates the meter, but in case it also takes into account the discharge curve of the cell type and adjusts the deck's shutdown point (doubt it) I'll try the other setting when i get a chance.
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Gutbucket, thanks for being our guinea pig with the zinc batteries. That's very disappointing that you didn't get more time.
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I managed to get 6 ½ hours (24bit/48kHz, no dual mode) out of a pair of Duracel Rechargable 2650mAh
(AA/HR6/DC1500 NiMH/1.2V) batteries. This was when setting the battery type to ALKAL in the setup menu.
When I had the battery type set to NiMH they've barely lasted two hours on avarage lately. Though a few months ago
I used the same batteries with battery type set to NiMH and recorded about 4h in 24bit/96kHz using dual-mode.
I'll have to do more testing.
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2nd test: Battery type set to ALKAL using a pair of Vanson 2500mAh (N2500AA / 1.2V / R6 / SIZE AA Ni-HM).
Total recording time before the low battery warning showed up: 6h54m + an unknown amount of time due to I
forgot to remove the files from the previous test so I ran out of space without noticing.
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Just to clarify...it's the same exact NiMH batteries that run the deck longer at the alkaline setting? Interesting. But I wonder if in the long term the alkaline setting lets the batteries discharge too far. I know alkalines start out at a higher voltage, but are they considered "dead" at a lower voltage than you'd want to discharge a NiMH to?
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Yes. Same batteries.
Just recorded a show. Unfortunately the Vanson batteries (mentioned above) lasted 19minutes.
Didn't notice until 17 minutes before the end of the first set which lasted about 1h30m. Changed batteries (in the dark!)
to the Duracels mentioned above and caught the last 17mins or so of set1. At that point the battery indicator showed
2/3 remaining. This is not going to last the remainder of the show I thought, but they did! At the end of the show
battery indicator was still at 2/3.
1st set (first 19minutes): 96/24, dual, gain: low, battery type:ALKAL, batteries: Vanson NiMH
1st set (last 17minutes): 96/24, dual, gain: low, battery type:ALKAL, batteries: Duracel NiMH
2nd set + all encores (about 1h45m): 48/24, dual, gain: low, battery type:ALKAL, batteries: Duracel NiMH
I also have to add that the Duracel batteries are about 1 and a half years old. They used to be in my Nintendo Wii
controller. I've recharged them quite a few times. The Vanson batteries a quite new.
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I found a firmware update reported on Tascam's UK Facebook page. (http://www.facebook.com/TASCAMUK) Looking farther I see updated firmware available for download on Tascam's European site, but no mention on their primary US site. What gives?
European division download page (tascam.de)-
http://www.tascam.de/en/downloads/current/DR-2d (http://www.tascam.de/en/downloads/current/DR-2d)
US info page with download links for manual and tested card list, but no firmware updates (tascam.com)-
http://www.tascam.com/products/dr-2d;9,12,3866,19.html (http://www.tascam.com/products/dr-2d;9,12,3866,19.html)
New firmware is V1.01
Info screen on my recorder reports V1.00 0020
Changes are improved battery life (and mp3 recording and playback improvements). I'm tempted to install it, but wary since I don't have a copy of the old firmware to reinstall if something goes awry. Any one install this yet? Any reason the Euro model would be different? Any other insights?
BTW, the Powergenix NiZn batteries seem to be lasting much longer than they did initially, but I haven't run another test to confirm just how much longer.
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Thanks for the heads up. I noticed the European site has firmware updates for other models that also haven't made it to the US site yet (e.g. DR-08). I'm going to try it tonight, I'll let you know if I end up with a brick. I'm willing to take the risk because aside from battery life this thing is the bee's knees, but right now I just can't trust it on anything but alkalines (which hit 1 bar on the meter disappointingly soon too, although I think they'll last for a while at that state).
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Brave or stupid...we'll soon see.
Installed the firmware update. Had a fresh set of alkalines in there. Went fine. Rebooted. Got a battery empty warning (yes, it was set to alkaline). WTF? Swapped in some NiMHs. Showed as full. Swapped back the alkalines. Showed as full. ???
Am now running a battery life test. Switched back to NiMH setting and put in some 2000 mAh pre-charged NiMHs that were last charged a month or so ago. Running dual mode, line in plus MKE40s mic in running off DR-07 power. Will update when I run out of juice. Hopefully not for four hours or so!
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Thanks for taking the plunge and trying. My new rechargeables get decent run time, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time before this device doesn't like them any more. I ended up purchasing an external battery from another ts.com member, which ran the unit until my 16GB card was full... twice. Shouldn't be any problems with using that!
One annoyance with using an external battery is that the backlight is always on. Not sure if that's something we can change in the menu or not. It reads the external as if you're running off of AC power.
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Am now running a battery life test. Switched back to NiMH setting and put in some 2000 mAh pre-charged NiMHs that were last charged a month or so ago. Running dual mode, line in plus MKE40s mic in running off DR-07 power. Will update when I run out of juice. Hopefully not for four hours or so!
4 hrs 24 min. Not bad, but not any real improvement over what I got with similar batteries in good shape under the previous firmware. Honestly I'm not totally sure if these particular batteries ever gave me less than that. I'll play with some others. As long as I can count on 4 hours, that's good enough for me.
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bgaolizio, what external battery are you using? I may look into one of those.
Will_S, does everything seem to be funtioning the same after the update ?
I have not yet run the firmware update. Waiting to run a new battery time check with the NiZn batts 1st so I can do it again afterwards and compare.
What firmware are most of you running on this thing? You can check in the Menu under Information, version is indicated at the bottom of the 3rd page.
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Will_S, does everything seem to be funtioning the same after the update ?
Hard to say. I wasn't watching closely on my battery tests, but was a little surprised that the machine had completely shut off when I checked on it vs. before it seemed to give a low battery warning but stay on (not recording) for a while. Maybe I was just too slow to check. It did seem to save everything ok.
Ran a test with another set of batteries overnight. These might have been the ones that were giving me ~2 hours before. 2 hrs 52 min. Hmmm.
Menus etc. aren't obviously different, but I haven't tested extensively.
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One of the batteries sold here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136752.msg1779112#msg1779112
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4 hrs 29 min off a pair of Duracell Coppertop alkalines with the new firmware. Dual(line) mode, mic power on. Granted the batteries had also been used for the firmware update (just took a minute or two). Not sure that's really any improvement. I was encouraged at first that the battery meter seemed to be going down slower than usual with alkalines, but then it must have dropped off faster than usual once I went to bed. Giving it one more pass tonight.
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One of the batteries sold here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136752.msg1779112#msg1779112
I also just ordered this battery for an ipod touch extender:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002CFSTRC/ref=oss_product
I'm thinking it will work for the DR-2d as well. I'll test it when it arrives.
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One of the batteries sold here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136752.msg1779112#msg1779112
I'm using the other one. It's the exact same width and length as my Littlebox so it snugs up right next to it in my bag. I haven't had to worry about battery life at all....till I forgot the cable for it at Garage a Trois Tuesday night. But I made it on some rechargeable AAs I had in the bag just in case I had to leave my other deck downstairs at the soundboard for a patch.
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One of the batteries sold here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136752.msg1779112#msg1779112
I also just ordered this battery for an ipod touch extender:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002CFSTRC/ref=oss_product
I'm thinking it will work for the DR-2d as well. I'll test it when it arrives.
The New Trent battery doesn't come with a connector that would work for the DR-2d (only came with an iPod dock connector, and the 2 mini-USB connectors). I'm guessing it would work, provided that you could order the proper tip.
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Taped last night [24/48 four channel using dual (line) mode] running firmware V1 with PowerGenix LiZn batteries (1.6V 2500mWh) freshly charged, and the recorder ran for a total of 3 hrs 52 minutes. I turned it off for about 15 minutes between sets, then started a new file after the end of the show without turning it off and let it run until it shut down.
I'll run another test after updating the firmware to see if it makes any difference.
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New firmware is now up on the US Tascam site so I downloaded that version today (v1.01 0021), updated and ran another test with a different pair of fresh charged PowerGenix LiZn's using the same recorder settings. Let it run straight through with no 15 minute off set break. Recorded for 4 hrs 44 minutes, writing a total of 9.15GB. Quality higher rated NiMh batteries will likley last longer still while new.
With my first gen R-09s getting 5-6 hrs on older 2100mAh low-self discharge NiMh and the new gen Sony recorders seemingly running for days on 2 AAs, I could take this as still disapointing. But since the primary attraction for me is 4 track dual mode, ~52 minutes more is very good... and probably enough that I won't worry about it. A reliable 4-1/2 hour recorder -vs- a 3-1/2 hr one (with these batteries) is a big practical difference.
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I just finished this test with my new dr2d:
Got 4 brand new Eneloops, discharged at 0.25C with a MAHA C9000 charger then charged with the 'break-in' setting of the charger (charge @0.1C for 16h, discharge @0.2C, charge @0.1C for 16 hours) indicated for new batteries forming.
Then took the 2 that were best matched at 1987 and 1988 mAh and put in the recorder.
Then did a recording Dual(Line) with no MIC IN PWR @16/44.1 and it lasted for approx 6h11m.
I don't think we can go much more than this; the 'break-in' mode isn't very indicated for batteries that are not new or dead and also it takes two days for charging them!
I tried also a pair of old Panasonic Infinium charged with some 'regular' charger and lasted for 4h42m. Now am running the same test as the Eneloops on 4 brand new Panasonic, will post the results if there's some interest.
I also put one charged battery and a weak one and after one minute the recorder said there was no battery... Maybe it is also sensitive to non matched batteries ?
I think it is a bit disappointing as well. It is true that I am recording 4 tracks, but....
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It is true that I am recording 4 tracks, but....
From the perspecitve of run time time per recorded channel / the number of batteries in the recorder, this machine does a great job on just two AAs in dual (line) mode.
Consider the closest small 4-channel recorder in comparison, which is probably the R-44 (not using phantom power). I always run the R-44 on DVD batteries with it's AA's just for backup, but I doubt it would run longer on just the internal batteries, and the R-44 uses four AA's.
Of course the comparison ends there as they are otherwise different machines with different uses. Just saying.
6 hrs is outstanding.
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You are right, but from what I've seen the time does not double if I record only 2 tracks, it stays the same approx. So while I think it's doing the job if you go dual and I'm happy with that, for two tracks someone may find it disappointing since with not brand new batteries charged normally goes about 4.5 hours (my tests, other people reports 3 hours or even minutes...).
I think with a pair of good matched batteries it does the job for me in dual.
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A couple things-
Got 5.5 hrs out of the same 2000 mAh precharged NiMHs I was getting 4.5 hours out of, even in my first try after the firmware update. Maybe the batteries just needed a deep discharge, or maybe dual/-12 takes less battery juice than dual/line for some reason.
Also, my autosplits are now at 2.15 gigabytes (running 24/44.1). ???
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i finally ran this in dual mode at Rush in WPB....and got the dreaded file errror at about 49 min in the second set and lost the file, it would not write, shows zero data, but the card remaining appears to show that the data is on there. i know someone else got this error, i wonder if they ever recovered the data? in any case, i think this was an overheating issue, possibly the card but i tested the card at home and it worked fine (only one test however). i did record the night before, NOT in dual mode and the recorder was in my fanny pack the whole show, with some venting (opened pocket occasionally) and i got the whole show on same card. has anyone else who is stealthing this unit in a bag or pack, having these file writing errors? this happened even after i shut it down b/t intermisssion and changed the batteries and it still only lasted 49 minutes. i did not find out til after the show so i could not fix or restart prior to that. it was a write error too so i'm hoping a little bit that its the card and not the heat. i'm using an appoved 16gb transcend new card. i guess i need to run more tests. this really burns me however. now, both these gigs where in FL, in the heat outdoors and this unit definatly gets hot after a while. the battery life is ok, i'm using enelopes and no problems for a 3 hour gig but i switched them out just to be safe since the intermission is 25min and its easy to do.
the sound is nice on this, i think the bass response is good but not as deep as the R9 but still very good and really not as boomy, which is probably a good thing. just some notes on the levels and such.
i ran line in at 100 with CA-14 mics and Ugly Pre at +20db in 23rd row and my peaks on that are solid at -18db with no peaks over -12db. very hard to brick this deck.
i ran mic in at 65 with CAFS omnis and Ugly Pre at 20+db in same seat and my peaks on that are solid at -8db with no real peaks over -4db. almost cutting it close but i've listened back and it sounds clean with no distortion. i have two UGLY's.
with the Church mics, which have the 4.7k mod, there is no way to bust the levels on this recorder LINE IN with +20db gain or more. mic in you can if you get too hot or the mics are hotter. it was extremely loud, i was center so not directly in front of PA but it was still very loud. i would always suggest running with external battery for any mics. this unit is pretty easy to crotch, a little bigger than R9 but not by much. i'm going to be taping end of the month again, and planning to run dual again, but i'm either hanging this around my neck or using a home made belt clip and see if that works.
i would appreciate some feedback on the heat issue from anyone, anyone recording long periods of time, in a fanny pack or with no venting/ issues? or not open to the air, in a bag or whatever. very curious......thanks.
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I'm also running two UGLYs, more sensitive mics but similar recorder gain settings- recording less loud material. No problems so far for me running typical concert length in dual (line) mode, recorder protected in a beer coozie, inside a pant pocket.
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gutbucket, thanks for the reply, i am going to run tests at home with Sandisk cards and covering the unit to get it hot, and see if it craps out or not. if you have yours stuffed in a pants pocket and also covered and its not overheating, then these Transcend cards are worthless and i knew that when i bought it but oh well. live and learn.
what king of SD cards are you running? thanks.
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Kingston 16GB class 4 in there now, I've also run Kingston 8GB (both class 6 and class 4) in it with no problems.. haven't tried my Kingston 32GB cards in there yet. The recorder gets warm (more so than my R-09s) but not overly hot.
The only Trancend card I own is their original 16GB one which worked fine for a couple years then got flaky so I retired it. Went to the Kingstons after that because the prices were good and they have worked fine in my R-09s R-44, cameras and this recorder.
Funny that the Transcend is one of the few on Tascam's 'tested as OK' list.
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just a quick update. i've run two sets of tests on this deck with new Sandisk Class 6 card Extreme II and its recording fine, all files writing and saving, no errors, not feeding a loud signal but its covered with towel and in my fanny pack and the deck is not getting as hot as it was in the field. it is definately flaky with cards. my battery tests on not so old Enelops 2000, 4:24 hours on one set, only 3:27 on the other set. the later i have used more often. i have the 1.0 firmware. i am going to run tests to see if regular copper tops will run 4 hours, i saw that but with new firmware update. i am going to try them without updating and see what they pull. i hate to buy lithiums but i know those would cover me for sure.
also, has anyone run tests with Lithiums? just curious if those would net 6-7 hours solid or more. ok, great thread, love this deck other than battery life.
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also, has anyone run tests with Lithiums? just curious if those would net 6-7 hours solid or more. ok, great thread, love this deck other than battery life.
Yes, over 11 hours with Energizer Ultimate Lithiums (deck set to alkaline). Not what I'd like to do in general, but seems to be the safest option for one venue where I pretty much have to set the deck rolling during sound check and not access it again until the end of the night.
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New v1.02 firmware available:
http://tascam.com/product/dr-2d/downloads/
No release notes though. Anyone want to be the guinea pig?
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This may have been covered, but I just ran through the thread and didn't find a clue:
If you are essentially making TWO 24/96 recordings, how much recording time fits on a 4 GB card.
Yes, certainly I'd like a 16 GB card, but you know... what can you fit on a 4?
Thanks!
j
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If you are essentially making TWO 24/96 recordings, how much recording time fits on a 4 GB card.
Half as much as a single stereo 24/96 recording, or a quarter as much as a single stereo 24/48 recording.
A simple rule of thumb- stereo 24/48 recording = almost exactly 1GB of data per hour
So..
24/48 stereo = 1GB/hr
24/48 dual mode = 2GB/hr
24/96 stereo = 2GB/hr
24/96 dual mode = 4 GB/hr
Recording 24/48 in dual mode I end up with somewhere around 4-5Gb of recorded data for a typical two set show, so you'd need double that amount of space for 24/96. Remember that all memory cards hold somewhat less than their nominal size ratings. My 32GB cards hold about 30GB of actual data, my 16GB cards hold about 15GB.
I don't use the 96kHz rate and have not tested dual mode at that setting.. you'll be moving and storing twice as much data so do a test and make sure your card is up to it without problems.
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I wonder what that means for recording capacity? How big of card does this thing accept? Pretty cool feature if it's practical.
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A couple things-
Got 5.5 hrs out of the same 2000 mAh precharged NiMHs I was getting 4.5 hours out of, even in my first try after the firmware update. Maybe the batteries just needed a deep discharge, or maybe dual/-12 takes less battery juice than dual/line for some reason.
Also, my autosplits are now at 2.15 gigabytes (running 24/44.1). ???
Greetings. New to this board.
Will - I'm having a bit of trouble following the thread.
Can you advise *which* NiMHs you're getting 4-6 hours out of on the DR-2D, and what charger you're using?
And is it your feeling that the new firmware better handles slightly lower voltage?
Based primarily on the feature set and the sound samples (at AudioTranskription),
I suspect that I'll shortly be getting a DR-2D, less than stellar battery life nothwithstanding.
For me, it'll be for recording acoustic guitar/mando & vocal sessions with my musical colleagues,
nights out at the open mike, and the ability to overdub a harmony.
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Can you advise *which* NiMHs you're getting 4-6 hours out of on the DR-2D, and what charger you're using?
And is it your feeling that the new firmware better handles slightly lower voltage?
I've been using 2000 mah "pre-charged" Duracell NiMHs and a LaCrosse charger. 2700 mah batteries would presumably do better, but not store as well.
On balance, it seems like I am getting better battery life since updating the firmware to 1.01, but it is odd that I didn't see a big increase until my second attempt with the new firmware. I wish I had kept better records on exactly which battery (out of my 8 or so identically branded but not identical age/capacity remaining) I used in each test to be more definitive, but things were hectic at the time. I have not yet installed 1.02.
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Couple things:
Be careful with what you put into the power jack. I was working on an external battery option and accidentally applied 9v from a DVD battery without stepping it down first as was the plan. Recorder now will not power on and needs to be sent to Tascam for repair.
Got a replacement deck ASAP from B&H before last weekend's BearCreek fest along with a couple Trancend 32GB class 10 cards and an [edit] EverReady Energizer (XP8000) LiIon power pack which is about the same size as the recorder. The power pack has outputs for 5VDC, 9-12VDC and 18VDC. It includes 5V adapters that fit but stick straight out the side about 3" so I took a trip to Radio Shack and soldered up a stubby cable with a right angle adapta-plug. If I had time to figure out another cable I could have powered both preamps from the same pack using its 9V port, but instead used a regular LiIon DVD battery for them.
Loaded the latest 1.02 firmware on the new recorder and tested with one of the new 32GB cards, recording 24/48 in dual mode overnight. Filled the card with 30GB of data (15 hrs recording time) and only used one bar of four on the external battery.
I ran it 3 days at Bear Creek and probably could have gone the full weekend without re-charging, but topped off the battery once for a few hours (while simultaneously using it to power the deck, listening to some fresh recorded tracks at camp). The 9V DVD batt powering the preamps had no problem going all weekend, only depleting one light. Even with the two batteries the whole 4 channel rig still fit easily in a small shaving kit bag along with some gaffer tape, some uneeded extra AA's and other odds and ends. The combination of massive storage space and battery power makes recording fests simpler, funner, better, faster, stronger..
[edit- I can't recommend running the CA-UGLY(s) off a DVD battery at this time. Had power related distortion issues I did not notice until listening back to the recordings later. I've gone back to using the excellent Powerex 9.6V batteries. Now the higher capacity 230mAh low-self dischage Imedeon version]
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What were you using for mics and preamps?
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Four DPA 4060 into two Church Audio CA-UGLYs as part of a rather odd but effective DIY 4-channel surround recording contraption. The ability to record 4 synced channels on a small recorder make the DR2d invaluable for this rig. I wish it could do 5.
Details on the mic array are here if interested in the details- http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=96009.msg1713305#msg1713305 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=96009.msg1713305#msg1713305). I plan to update that thread with the DR2d & powering info soon.
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Four DPA 4060 into two Church Audio CA-UGLYs as part of a rather odd but effective DIY 4-channel surround recording contraption. The ability to record 4 synced channels on a small recorder make the DR2d invaluable for this rig. I wish it could do 5.
Details on the mic array are here if interested in the details- http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=96009.msg1713305#msg1713305 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=96009.msg1713305#msg1713305). I plan to update that thread with the DR2d & powering info soon.
Very interesting set-up. I really like that mic array.
Is there any problem using the mic input of the DR-2d to record from a preamp? Any difference in quality from the line-in?
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I'd prefer two lines-in.
Actually I'd like three. ;)
As expected, the mic-in is hotter, even on the 'low' setting. Line-in @ 100 approximately = mic in (low) @ something like 67. Although I haven't really done a head to head comp of the two, in general the sound seems pretty much the same although the mic in may saturate a bit differently when approaching 0dBfs, at least from the visual movement of the meters. But I don't hear any difference at reasonable levels.
My main complaint is that the gains aren't gangable across both line and mic inputs, which would allow for a single gain adjustment in dual mode that would keep the relative levels between inputs the same. As it is line-in level can only be adjusted seperately form mic in, and only when not in rec or rec/pause. Still it's currently the only game in town for 4 (outboard mic) channels in a pocket.
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I'd prefer two lines-in.
Actually I'd like three. ;)
As expected, the mic-in is hotter, even on the 'low' setting. Line-in @ 100 approximately = mic in (low) @ something like 67. Although I haven't really done a head to head comp of the two, in general the sound seems pretty much the same although the mic in may saturate a bit differently when approaching 0dBfs, at least from the visual movement of the meters. But I don't hear any difference at reasonable levels.
My main complaint is that the gains aren't gangable across both line and mic inputs, which would allow for a single gain adjustment in dual mode that would keep the relative levels between inputs the same. As it is line-in level can only be adjusted seperately form mic in, and only when not in rec or rec/pause. Still it's currently the only game in town for 4 (outboard mic) channels in a pocket.
Thanks for that info.
I've been thinking about getting one of these for fooling around with surround ambient recordings.
I might just go straight into the mic-in with one pair of mics (since the sound levels will be fairly tame), and use the preamp for the second pair going line-in.
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New v1.02 firmware available:
http://tascam.com/product/dr-2d/downloads/
No release notes though. Anyone want to be the guinea pig?
Here's what Tascam said:
There won't be any release notes for this version.
It's simply a running change to correct a "Can't Save Date" message that appeared in a limited number of units.
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For those using 16GB and 32GB cards, which ones are working well for you?
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Can you use line in + internal mics in dual record mode? Can the levels be adjusted on the fly? Does the same apply for SBD line in + mics/preamp mic in?
How well does running SBD line in + mics/preamp mic in work at really loud shows? Is there any problem with distortion or brickwalling going mic in. I'll be recording shows at small bars where it will be the group on a little stage plugged straight into their amps and playing loud and dirty.
Those are the main configurations I would want to use the dual mode for so it may be a deal breaker if it won't work as well as I'd need.
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For those using 16GB and 32GB cards, which ones are working well for you?
Kingston, Trancend
Can you use line in + internal mics in dual record mode? Can the levels be adjusted on the fly? Does the same apply for SBD line in + mics/preamp mic in?
Yes.
Only mic input is adjustable while recording.
Yes.
How well does running SBD line in + mics/preamp mic in work at really loud shows? Is there any problem with distortion or brickwalling going mic in. I'll be recording shows at small bars where it will be the group on a little stage plugged straight into their amps and playing loud and dirty.
Those are the main configurations I would want to use the dual mode for so it may be a deal breaker if it won't work as well as I'd need.
Should be fine, mostly depends on your preamps and their output level.
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Firmware 1.03 was released couple weeks ago.
Did anyone try it? No release notes for this one so not sure what new features/fixes are...
http://tascam.com/product/dr-2d/downloads/
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How do you update the firmware? I don't see any obvious options and Google isn't showing it at first glance.
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Read the release notes for the first firmware update (1.01), same process.
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We'll have to see what they changed then. Maybe we'll be able to adjust line in on the fly in dual mode soon.
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Anyone give it a go yet? Would be nice if Tascam noted the changes. Downloaded but waiting until after a couple recording tonight and later this weeks to load.
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I'm going to load the new firmware as soon as my DR-2d arrives. Unfortunately I'm a dumb newb and wouldn't recognize the improvements if they bit me in the butt.
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I emailed Tascam concerning the nature of the new firmware version 1.03. Apparently it was just a bug fix. Here is there response.
"It is a precautionary update for rare cases when a "Mark" was not entered correctly during MP3 recordings."
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I emailed Tascam concerning the nature of the new firmware version 1.03. Apparently it was just a bug fix. Here is there response.
"It is a precautionary update for rare cases when a "Mark" was not entered correctly during MP3 recordings."
Which means jack if you never record in MP3. I didn't buy a 24 bit recorder and 16GB card so I could record in MP3.
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My DR-2d arrived today, it looks great in white. And
I'm happy to say it's very easy to use, almost intuitive.
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Anyone know how to reset the file name counter. It keeps incrementing even if I delete all the previous files.
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have not noticed that
i will check it out next time i play with it
it should not stop you from still rec something
maby try a full format and factory re set
that should set it back
g
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It's just annoying. I cleared all the files out and start to record a new file and it's DR00..57 There must be a way to start at DR000..1 again.
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Maybe change it to use date+time as the file name. That's more useful for me.
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I don't really see why this is such a big deal, but formatting the card will help.
I have it set to date as well.
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It's just annoying. I cleared all the files out and start to record a new file and it's DR00..57 There must be a way to start at DR000..1 again.
Restore factory settings and the first recording after you've done this
will start with DR00001.
I don't own a DR-2d at the moment (I want to buy one soon) but for most recorders this will work!
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Thanks all.
Eric, that worked. Initializing set it to zero without screwing up the date and existing files.
Gutbucket, your right, using the date does make better sense.
I gotta say, this thing is great. It's absolutely perfect for my task. I currently have it set up to dual record. Her stereo backing track is connected from the "Line-Out" of my CD player to the "Line-in" of the DR-2d. Her vocal are being recorded with either the wireless lav or the AKG C1000s connected to the DR-2d's external mic input. The results are 2 perfectly synchronized stereo files. I should also note that the on board reverb is very usable for vocalist.
I've also tried the internal cards with just her and a piano. Results were suprisingly good.
I almost got the M10 due to the great reviews and battery life. Really glad I didn't. Battery life is just fine on the DR-2d and the Dual recording feature puts this thing in a class of it's own. And last but not least internal mic are cards!
John
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I downloaded the newest firmware but can't get the machine to recognize it. I'm a knucklehead. Help, please.
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I downloaded the newest firmware but can't get the machine to recognize it. I'm a knucklehead. Help, please.
what do you expect?... it's a Tascam ;)
sorry, I had to
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Praying my Tascams never need service. ;)
'cooker,
Did you use the same update proceedure as that described for the first firmware update? (it's outlined in a PDF available on the Tascam DR2d download page)
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Praying my Tascams never need service. ;)
'cooker,
Did you use the same update proceedure as that described for the first firmware update? (it's outlined in a PDF available on the Tascam DR2d download page)
If all else fails read the instructions ;)
I forgot to do the step where you hold down the menu and play buttons while powering it up to start update mode.
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If only enhancement involves mp3 recording I'm not essing with mine until after my run of 18 shows between next week and mid July. Its working fine for me.
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I've been using the latest firmware pretty much since it came out. No issues so far.
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If by chance anyone from Tascam checks our forum, I'm hoping for two firmware updatable features for the DR2d that should not be complicated to implement, but would greatly increase the funtionality of the dual recording funtion (mic-in & line-in) for many users-
1) A switch added to the record menu which reduces sensitivity of the mic-input to that of the line-input, giving the two inputs identical maximum input levels of +6dbV.
2) Ability to link the input gain adjustments of the line-input and mic-input so that they can be adjusted simultaneously (similar to the channel ganging feature implemented with the 1.2 firmware update for the DR680, only simplier).
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If by chance anyone from Tascam checks our forum, I'm hoping for two firmware updatable features for the DR2d that should not be complicated to implement, but would greatly increase the funtionality of the dual recording funtion (mic-in & line-in) for many users-
1) A switch added to the record menu which reduces sensitivity of the mic-input to that of the line-input, giving the two inputs identical maximum input levels of +6dbV.
2) Ability to link the input gain adjustments of the line-input and mic-input so that they can be adjusted simultaneously (similar to the channel ganging feature implemented with the 1.2 firmware update for the DR680, only simplier).
If those happen, I will DEF be picking one up
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Hopeful.. not holding my breath.
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Hopeful.. not holding my breath.
Yeah, I know
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I just received my brand new (white, because this one is a lot cheaper in the Netherlands) DR-2D,
under information I found that it has system version 1.00.0020.
What does it mean, has the device not the firmware 1.01 and 1.02 in it?
Can someone confirm this?
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Yours has the original firmware. Download the latest firmware version from the Tascam website. Download the instructions for updating the recorder from the same webpage. The instructions are marked as being for version 1.01, however all the updates work the same way.
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Thank you very much for the quick response.
I was afraid for it, not that it is a big issue at all but very bad that a device bought in may 2011
has no firmware updates at all while the most important update (battery life) is from september 2010.
For me the only explanation is that the device is manufactured before september 2010.
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Hi all!
I have read nearly EVERY post in this thread - really fascinating info. I just got the DR-2d a few weeks ago. A neat recorder! I did have an unusual thing happen the first show I recorded (although I now know it is a known issue). I recorded the opening act with no problems and then shut it off until the main act came on. I then started recording the main act setting the levels before putting the recorder away. We were right in front of the left stack and even though I was recording in dual mode, I wanted to be sure the levels were not off the charts.
At about 55 mins into the show, the red lights were blinking and I checked to see what was going on. I had the dreaded FILE ERROR message! :( Started recording again and the recorder completely shut off after about 8.5 mins. When I tried to start recording again, the message said CARD ERROR (or something along those lines).
When I got home I transferred all three files (well 6 actually in dual mode) to my computer. The opening act came out fine (files 1/2). I only had 8.5 mins of the main act (files 5/6). The files that contained the 55+ mins of the show (right before the FILE ERROR message) were 0 byte files! This completely baffled me, so I started searching to see if there was any info on why/how this happened. This took me to this thread where I learned that, since the recorder gets fairly warm, the Transcend 16GB card has been known to cause problems like the one I encountered. I have a Kingston 16GB class 4 card coming very soon (thanks gutbucket!). BTW, when I did the quick format on the Transcend it went fine, but the full (long) format came back with an error message (BAD CARD). I should mention that this card functioned flawlessly in an H2 previously.
I hope the new card resolves the errors I was getting. Is anyone else still getting these errors even after switching cards? It's a great little recorder and I hope to get a good capture at the next show. Thanks!
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Youl should have try to do this:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=72936.0
but looks like you tried to format the card, so the recordings are finally lost...
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Hi all!
I have read nearly EVERY post in this thread - really fascinating info. I just got the DR-2d a few weeks ago. A neat recorder! I did have an unusual thing happen the first show I recorded (although I now know it is a known issue). I recorded the opening act with no problems and then shut it off until the main act came on. I then started recording the main act setting the levels before putting the recorder away. We were right in front of the left stack and even though I was recording in dual mode, I wanted to be sure the levels were not off the charts.
At about 55 mins into the show, the red lights were blinking and I checked to see what was going on. I had the dreaded FILE ERROR message! :( Started recording again and the recorder completely shut off after about 8.5 mins. When I tried to start recording again, the message said CARD ERROR (or something along those lines).
When I got home I transferred all three files (well 6 actually in dual mode) to my computer. The opening act came out fine (files 1/2). I only had 8.5 mins of the main act (files 5/6). The files that contained the 55+ mins of the show (right before the FILE ERROR message) were 0 byte files! This completely baffled me, so I started searching to see if there was any info on why/how this happened. This took me to this thread where I learned that, since the recorder gets fairly warm, the Transcend 16GB card has been known to cause problems like the one I encountered. I have a Kingston 16GB class 4 card coming very soon (thanks gutbucket!). BTW, when I did the quick format on the Transcend it went fine, but the full (long) format came back with an error message (BAD CARD). I should mention that this card functioned flawlessly in an H2 previously.
I hope the new card resolves the errors I was getting. Is anyone else still getting these errors even after switching cards? It's a great little recorder and I hope to get a good capture at the next show. Thanks!
Funny you should mention it, but I purchased several 16gb Transcend SDHC cards for a digital signage project at work and had to return all of them. They check out good with windows, but if you check out the cards with Linux there are faults. Had nothing but problems with them, apparently that whole batch made by Transcend is bad.
I also recently bought a DR-2d special edition white. And, I too was surprised that the firmware update for the battery was not yet installed.
Overall, I'm very happy with my DR-2d. Unless you need super long battery life, I think think it brings much more capability to the table than the M10.
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Overall, I'm very happy with my DR-2d. Unless you need super long battery life, I think think it brings much more capability to the table than the M10.
Can you please elaborate on this a bit? I have thought about selling my M10 and getting a DR-2d so that I could have the four track feature. I don't need four track very often, though, and the impression I have is that the M10 is better as a stereo recorder (quieter, more overload resistant, etc.)...Are there other features where the DR-2d outshines the Sony?
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To me, having 4 tracks is huge so the DR2D wins hands down, but in terms of a 2 track recorder it doesn't offer much over the M10, however it does offer a wireLESS remote and the recording levels can be locked, no wheel. Of course no wheel has its plusses and minuses. From avisoft's tests, it looks like the M10 has a substantal advantage in noise at max gain, but I don't know how relevant that is to a lot of taping situations.
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The DR-2d's internal mics are cards and the 4 channel recording capabilities. Both are biggies for me. Usually I'm only recording one song from a show and do not have the luxury of sound checks. So the 2nd track at -12db option is really good for me. I also need to use the internals frequently, so having cards is great.
The m10 can take a hotter signal from a sound board, but an 15db attenuator cable can fix that. Also, the M10 is said to have a slightly quieter preamp (based upon the assumption that the DR-2d has the same pre as the DR-100), However, that's more important to people recording recording nature. Lastly, the M10 has great battery life. The DR-2d's 5+ hrs is way more than I need, so thats a none issue for me.
Your choice should be based upon your needs. My needs as as follows;
1. My daughters live performances - wireless lav mic w/preamp plus internals or sound board plus internals and sometimes just internals.
2. Live performance video's - Mount the DR-2d to my camcorder and use the internals. Glad I have the second track -12bd option, it saved the day a few weeks ago.
3. Audition tapes - Wireless lav mic plus internals. Mix with accompiant track in post.
If you don't use the internals and do not have a need for 4 tracks, then there is no need to buy the DR-2d.
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The DR-2d's internal mics are cards and the 4 channel recording capabilities. Both are biggies for me. Usually I'm only recording one song from a show and do not have the luxury of sound checks. So the 2nd track at -12db option is really good for me. I also need to use the internals frequently, so having cards is great.
The m10 can take a hotter signal from a sound board, but an 15db attenuator cable can fix that. Also, the M10 is said to have a slightly quieter preamp (based upon the assumption that the DR-2d has the same pre as the DR-100), However, that's more important to people recording recording nature. Lastly, the M10 has great battery life. The DR-2d's 5+ hrs is way more than I need, so thats a none issue for me.
Your choice should be based upon your needs. My needs as as follows;
1. My daughters live performances - wireless lav mic w/preamp plus internals or sound board plus internals and sometimes just internals.
2. Live performance video's - Mount the DR-2d to my camcorder and use the internals. Glad I have the second track -12bd option, it saved the day a few weeks ago.
3. Audition tapes - Wireless lav mic plus internals. Mix with accompiant track in post.
If you don't use the internals and do not have a need for 4 tracks, then there is no need to buy the DR-2d.
The clincher for me was dual recording. The lower dB track would save the day for some loud shows where setting levels may be difficult/impossible.
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To me, having 4 tracks is huge so the DR2D wins hands down, but in terms of a 2 track recorder it doesn't offer much over the M10, however it does offer a wireLESS remote and the recording levels can be locked, no wheel. Of course no wheel has its plusses and minuses. From avisoft's tests, it looks like the M10 has a substantal advantage in noise at max gain, but I don't know how relevant that is to a lot of taping situations.
Thanks, Will. I have a friend who has been using both; he says that the Sony's noise floor is ~10 or 12 dB lower than the Tascam at "normal" levels. Not sure how he measured that, but he is pretty technically oriented (mechanical engineer), so I think it is probably reasonable. He has said a couple of times that I should stick with the Sony for the situations in which I tape (mostly jazz, some very quiet). That being said, though, the DR-2d is his go-to recorder (he loves the four track feature)...
The DR-2d's internal mics are cards and the 4 channel recording capabilities. Both are biggies for me. Usually I'm only recording one song from a show and do not have the luxury of sound checks. So the 2nd track at -12db option is really good for me. I also need to use the internals frequently, so having cards is great.
I really don't care much about the internals. For those rare situations in which I can envision using them, I am not sure that cards would necessarily be better than omnis anyway...
Well, thanks for the reponses! Solidifies what I was already thinking. Since my opportunities for four track recording are few and far between, I am going to stick with the Sony due to it's being quieter and having those robust inputs (I prefer not to deal with attenuators). I sort of like the long battery times and having the built-in memory as a backup too. Four track is tempting, though!!!
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Since I've been using an external batterypack with the DR2d that will go for days on end, I haven't revisited the recording time using only internal AAs now that it has been improved with an firmware update last fall. So I finally ran a test today out of curiosity.
DR2d recording 4 channels total, using dual (line) mode (ie: writing two 24bit/48kHz stereo files).
AA batteries used were freshly charged 2400mAh Maha Imedion low self discharge NiMh (~equivalent to Sanyo Eneloop).
Total recording time was just over 7 hrs. Confirmed by checking the resulting file properties in Foobar- Duration : 7:01:30.528 (1213945344 samples)
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I'm anxious to try the Energizer XP 8000 pack you suggested Lee
but with run times like that I may not need an external pack
we all know (now) how crappy the battery life was on the original firmware
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There is a definite peace of mind using the XP8000 in that I don't ever need to think of power, even for a multi-day festival.. similar to using a big 32GB card with so much extra space that I needn't worry about runing out all day. There are plenty of other distractions that I can fill that free mindspace with.
But it does mean that I now feel confident in running the DR2d without the external battery for pocketed gigs without worry. Now if I can get the custom 4 channel preamp built which I have in mind, I can streamline things even more.
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This may be slightly off topic, but I have a pair of Core Sound Cardioid Stealthy Mics (with battery box) coming very soon and I am going to use it with the DR-2d. I'll be recording fairly loud rock music. Should I use MIC IN or LINE IN? I will be using the battery box. If I do use MIC IN, do I set POWER ON on the DR-2d? Thanks for any and all information! :-)
PS: The Kingston 16GB card arrived today and long formatted with no problems (vs Transcend which had errors).
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DR2d recording 4 channels total, using dual (line) mode (ie: writing two 24bit/48kHz stereo files).
AA batteries used were freshly charged 2400mAh Maha Imedion low self discharge NiMh (~equivalent to Sanyo Eneloop).
Total recording time was just over 7 hrs. Confirmed by checking the resulting file properties in Foobar- Duration : 7:01:30.528 (1213945344 samples)
Thanks for testing this Gutbucket, it's about an hour more than the Eneloops (over 6 hours) which is also an excellent choice.
But I will also buy a set of Imedions 2400mAh, a good choice for festivals.
With 4 AA low self discharche batteries you can run a festivalday taping all bands, so batterylife isn't an issue anymore!
@genesisoh: The Transcend SDHC's work well for me and more people using these cards with succes. With one Sandisk SDHC card I also had problems with my Tascam DR-07,
I think if the recorder will get very hot (and it did when I got the error), especially on hot summer days and wearing it on your body or in your pants
there's a chance of card errors, try to avoid that and wear the recorder in a sleeve case on a belt or in a backpack.
Also good advice is start running recording 30 minutes before the show starts and check after 10 or 15 minutes if the recorder is still running without errors.
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I think if the recorder will get very hot (and it did when I got the error), especially on hot summer days and wearing it on your body or in your pants
there's a chance of card errors, try to avoid that and wear the recorder in a sleeve case on a belt or in a backpack.
FWIW, my DR-2d never gets hot, not even warm really. I've never had any problems running it in my pocket for 3+ hours. Maybe you're confusing cause and effect?
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I think if the recorder will get very hot (and it did when I got the error), especially on hot summer days and wearing it on your body or in your pants
there's a chance of card errors, try to avoid that and wear the recorder in a sleeve case on a belt or in a backpack.
FWIW, my DR-2d never gets hot, not even warm really. I've never had any problems running it in my pocket for 3+ hours. Maybe you're confusing cause and effect?
I haven't had any problems with my DR-2D until now and it didn't get hot but the card error I recognize from my DR-07 (exactly the same problem) and it happened
when the recorder got hot due to the air temperature.
Did you record shows at days over 30 degrees celcius and wearing the DR-2D in your pocket ? I think under those conditions
the DR-2D can get hot as well and give problems.
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This may be slightly off topic, but I have a pair of Core Sound Cardioid Stealthy Mics (with battery box) coming very soon and I am going to use it with the DR-2d. I'll be recording fairly loud rock music. Should I use MIC IN or LINE IN? I will be using the battery box. If I do use MIC IN, do I set POWER ON on the DR-2d? Thanks for any and all information! :-)
Set the recorder's plug in power to off when using a battery box. You can use either input, best choice depends on how much gain you need.
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Without diggin deep in this thread, can anyone tell me if it's alright to run two external preamps or battery boxes at the same time with the DR-2D? Can the "plug in power" be turned off..... or is the 3v (or whatever) that would be feeding power to the mic input not an issue to be concerned about?
I'd like to run two sets of mics > two external preamps > DR-2D....... without damaging either preamp. Is this possible? I've been on the fence with this recorder for a while............... and this is the "million dollar question" for me. Thanks.
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Guy,
I don't see that as being any different than running a SBD/AUD MTX
you just have to set the MIC sensitivity to LOW and set the input to 67 or below... and of course turn the PIP OFF
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So the PIP for the MIC input can be turned off?
Thanks man!
I guess that I'd have some fear if I plugged a SBD > PIP (mic input)..... could that cause any damage to the SBD?? I know it's not P48, but it's still a little bit of juice.
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So the PIP for the MIC input can be turned off?
Sure. Same as on all small flash recorders I'm aware of.
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What a great and informative thread! I've learned a lot about this device, but like many old school tapers I am a bit lost with my new digital recorder and I am seeking some advice. I haven’t recorded a show in years, and the last time it was with a rockboxed IRiver H320 which went reasonably well. But I mainly recorded on DAT with the D8, D100 and M1 respectively. It was pretty simple, plug into the mic in, set the 20db limiter and hit record… but now I feel overwhelmed.
After a little research (and reading this thread), I opted for the DR-2D, which mainly appealed to me for its dual recording ability (on the very off chance I might get board access one day). I am also a journalist, so I know it can come in handy professionally as well. I have read most of the posts in this thread, but I am still confused on the set up for recording loud concers.
I plan on recording a test show tomorrow night, then a few next week… so I want to make sure I don’t mess it up. I have a pair of Sonic DSM-6S mics with a PA-6LC 85Hz Bass Roll-Off as well as HEB 6041s . I plan on using the Sonics tomorrow and the HEBs next week. I don’t see an option for setting the a 20db limiter on this thing, is that possible? Or is it even needed? What’s the ideal set up for either of these mics? Should I use line in or mic in (I used to use line in with the Sonics on my D100)? I have read that certain SD cards can be problematic, should I not use anything over 16gb? Also, how does it handle the 2gb file size limit?
Sorry for all the questions... It looks and feels like a great little device and I'm very happy with my purchase, I just don't want to mess things up!
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I plan on recording a test show tomorrow night, then a few next week… so I want to make sure I don’t mess it up. I have a pair of Sonic DSM-6S mics with a PA-6LC 85Hz Bass Roll-Off as well as HEB 6041s . I plan on using the Sonics tomorrow and the HEBs next week. I don’t see an option for setting the a 20db limiter on this thing, is that possible? Or is it even needed? What’s the ideal set up for either of these mics? Should I use line in or mic in (I used to use line in with the Sonics on my D100)? I have read that certain SD cards can be problematic, should I not use anything over 16gb? Also, how does it handle the 2gb file size limit?
Sorry for all the questions... It looks and feels like a great little device and I'm very happy with my purchase, I just don't want to mess things up!
for the 4061s...
if you go line in you'll have low levels at max "gain". mic in, i've only tried using low gain setting and got decent enough levels, was stealth so i don't really know if you could over load it. look for a LMT function in your menu, it's like the safety clip in the irivers.
for the sonics...
i have a feeling you could probably use the PIP though have never tried it, though if no one else pipes in i'd ask len himself.
2gb limit
handles it well. just creates 2 files.
in all cases, you could do a dual recording and it'll record 2 files at once with one being at a lower input level. read up on it.
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I guess that I'd have some fear if I plugged a SBD > PIP (mic input)..... could that cause any damage to the SBD?? I know it's not P48, but it's still a little bit of juice.
I'd be more concerned about you totally overloading the recorder if you feed a SBD signal to the mic input! :o
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look for a LMT function in your menu, it's like the safety clip in the irivers.
The limiter on the DR2d is a limiter, reducing gain momentarily once it's threshold is reached, then releasing and returning to the previous gain setting. It is not like Iriver's saftey clip, which rachets down the gain setting when the treshold is reached without releasing.
i have a feeling you could probably use the PIP though have never tried it, though if no one else pipes in i'd ask len himself.
Batterybox or preamp is required to power Core HEB mics (which are DPA 4060/4061), PIP is not sufficeint. I'm not sure about the Sonic Studios mics (ask Guy).
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So for the Sonics, I should use the battery pack into the mic in? I need to mess around with it more and figure out how to set the limiter.
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Go: microphones > batterybox specific to those mics > DR2d's mic input (low gain setting, PIP off, input gain adjusted as necessary for good recording levels)
You have small, battery powered supplies which are specifically designed to power the mics properly with the correct voltage and current. Use them for best results.
Limiter is non adjustable, simply on or off via the rec input menu. Not sure what the threshold setting is, that might be indicated in the manual but I doubt it. You can also turn it on/off independently for the lower level dual recorded stereo file as long as that is recording from the same input (ie: not mixing inputs or recording two seperate stereo files).
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look for a LMT function in your menu, it's like the safety clip in the irivers.
The limiter on the DR2d is a limiter, reducing gain momentarily once it's threshold is reached, then releasing and returning to the previous gain setting. It is not like Iriver's saftey clip, which rachets down the gain setting when the treshold is reached without releasing.
oh my bad. that's rather disappointing.
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Go: microphones > batterybox specific to those mics > DR2d's mic input (low gain setting, PIP off, input gain adjusted as necessary for good recording levels)
Thanks for tips, my first trial run with the DR-2D went very well with the Sonics, I was almost nervous that it was a little too easy! I actually had to set the gain to mid since it wasn't a terribly loud show and I was in the balcony, but I tried out the dual record feature just in case (it wasn't necessary). I wasn't sure about the other setting though... I set the level control to off, do most people do it that way? I assume that it's just a means of auto limiting that the dual recording feature may make redundant. I'm not sure what the difference is between auto and limit in the options either.
So now I'll be switching to the HEB's... I should still use mic in? I had the low cut feature turned off for the Sonics since my battery pack had a roll off, but I don't have one for the HEB's (it's flat response). Should I use the low cut setting on the DR-2D? Perhaps at 80hz? I'll be recording loud rock.
Also, on the recording setting, how much time does the pre record setting give you and what does the delay feature do?
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Auto level control rides the gain up and down during the recording and is typically useful for dictation more than music recording. The limiter momentarily reduces gain near clipping without changing the gain setting.
If you get a strong enough signal using the line input then do that, if you need more gain, use the mic input.
Bass rolloff is a personal choice. Some use it all the time, others never do. Play around with it to figure out the details, same with the other functions.
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Ok, joining the thread, since I just joined the team. :)
Got my DR2d a couple days ago, haven't got a chance to play with it much, just dinked around recording the stereo. I need to get the latest firmware and really start learning how to use it.
A couple of repeat questions if folks will bear with me. I read through this whole thread and every other one I could find on the DR2d before I decided to buy, but I've forgot and don't want to re-read everything.
With the latest firmware, how long of battery life can I expect on a set of AA's? I use low-discharge NiMH's, which are about 2300mah.
Are people happy using internal AAs or is the general thought that for open taping to be sure and just use an external battery? If so, what are some recommendations on what external battery to get?
Thanks for the help! Looking forward to running 4ch off such a small handheld. Going to have to break out all the cable making gear in the garage and start making some attenuator cables. Virgin run for it will probably be for Panic at Red Rocks in 10 days.
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Welcome to the cool taper club ;)
With the latest firmware, how long of battery life can I expect on a set of AA's? I use low-discharge NiMH's, which are about 2300mah.
Are people happy using internal AAs or is the general thought that for open taping to be sure and just use an external battery? If so, what are some recommendations on what external battery to get?
5+ hours, conservatively. Pretty much on par with the original R-09.
Since I've been using an external batterypack with the DR2d that will go for days on end, I haven't revisited the recording time using only internal AAs now that it has been improved with an firmware update last fall. So I finally ran a test today out of curiosity.
DR2d recordieach time ng 4 channels total, using dual (line) mode (ie: writing two 24bit/48kHz stereo files).
AA batteries used were freshly charged 2400mAh Maha Imedion low self discharge NiMh (~equivalent to Sanyo Eneloop).
Total recording time was just over 7 hrs. Confirmed by checking the resulting file properties in Foobar- Duration: 7:01:30.528 (1213945344 samples)
Since running the test above, I've not felt the need to use an external battery for most gigs. I've used it about 3 times since and each time came home with more than 50% charge by the meter. I will use it for extended festivals or all day events since it easily powers the DR2d for days. The external I've been using is the Energizer XP8000, which is the same size as the recorder and supplies 5V via a USB port (for the DR2d), 9-12V and 16-20V, all simultaneously if needed. It's targeted for netbooks and also funtions as an AC powered supply while charging. The only quirk is that unlike familiar DVD batteries, it must be turned on before use by pressing the meter-check button (power saving sleep mode). Needs a custom cable for a tight RA plug to the DR2d, works great.
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Todd, definitely run a test using your batteries, just to be sure of their performance. You'll probably be alright, but this unit is known to be picky about battery voltage output.
I use my external battery, just because I have one. That way I have nothing to worry about. I like to let my recorder roll the whole time I'm there, though, so it's usually running for quite a while.
It's really nice to have 4 track capabilities in such a small and cheap device, plus the ADC sounds fine to my ears.
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Thanks for the info fellas!
I just got my 16GB card from Newegg yesterday, so looks like it's time to set up a battery test. Hopefully the internals will work out good. If so, I still may try to remember to switch battery sets between opener/first set and second set/encore. 4-5 hours per battery set should be good enough for a full night's run though if I forget.
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OK, seeking more info since the first time I run this at a show will be for Panic at RR and they won't have an opener.
I'll be running 4ch into the DR2d and need to get a sense of where my levels should be, esp on the line input. Don't think I can re-create concert volumes at home to test. :P
It seems that most people are setting the line at 100, but that seems counter-intuitive since that is max gain (or seemingly minimum attenuation, but I'm not sure if I've seen for sure whether the DR2d applies attenuation only or if it applies gain on the line inputs).
At any rate, here's the detailed set up:
Line in -- my line in path will be Milabs>Lunatec V3> -15db attenuator cable > DR2d.
I'll be running Milabs> V3 (digi) > Sony D50 for my main 2ch rig, and will be shooting for peaks at -6dbFS, though I have an old habit with V3's from my DAT days of running hot, so who knows, peaks may be at -1dbFS or even 0.
At 0dbFS and using unbalanced outs, the V3 puts out 19dbu, or 16.8dbV. The DR2d can take a +6dbV signal, so to not overload the DR2d with the worst case signal from the V3, I needed -11db attenuator cables, but I only had the parts on hand for -15db, so that is what got built.
So where should I be setting the DR2d for line levels? I should be sending it something potentially approaching its max signal of +6dbV so it doesn't seem that I should be setting the gain at 100, though that seems to be the common practice.
If folks want to mess with helping me with initial mic in settings: I'll be running Charter Oak m900 omnis > Littlebox pre > DR2d.
The DR2d takes a max mic input of -16dbV, which I'd easily go over unless I built another set of attenuator cables, which I did, this time -16db cables. Even with those, I figure I'd hit the overload point with 10-20db of gain from my littlebox.
So assuming I'll come pretty close to the brickwall point of -16dbV on the mic inputs, where do I want to set my levels on the DR2d mic inputs? Low gain mic setting of course.
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I only ran my M10 and DR-2d once simultaneously out of my Littlebox since I have both RCA and 1/8" outs
and ran my M10 at 4 (unity) and my DR-2d at 100 and got the same levels out of both units
the DR-2d crapped out before the next time I needed to use it and I haven't had a chance to run the replacement yet
I plan on running both units in the future until I get accustomed to the DR-2d
I bought it to do SBD/AUD MTXs using the Mic In off the SBD (using Level 65 and Low sensitivity) and the Line In off my Littlebox
so I may need to get attenuators for the SBD input... we'll see
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I'll be running 4ch into the DR2d and need to get a sense of where my levels should be, esp on the line input. Don't think I can re-create concert volumes at home to test. :P
Couldn't you just feed it (the V3) a line level input signal and adjust gain accordingly and see what sort of levels it put out?
It seems that most people are setting the line at 100, but that seems counter-intuitive since that is max gain (or seemingly minimum attenuation, but I'm not sure if I've seen for sure whether the DR2d applies attenuation only or if it applies gain on the line inputs).
Empirically, I most often run line it at 100 because with the board feeds I typically get, that gives me levels of -12dB to -6dB. So there's no point in attenuating a signal like that just to boost it in post.
That said when I do get a hotter than normal board feed I've run line in 90 with no other attenuators and not had any distortion problems, although I keep attenuators with me just in case I get a really hot feed. Keep in mind the max input for line in is spec'd at +6 dBV and nominal PRO line level is only +4dbu = +2 dbV. Now granted you can get a hotter than nominal output in some cases (like running a V3 unbalanced out, which is not really what it's designed for) but in practice I generally find MOST but NOT ALL board feeds are far below nominal rather than far above. Of course I don't tend to go for the loudest genres.
Playing around with the mic in (low sens), I find that I can set input levels as low as 70 or maybe a bit lower without running into distortion (I suspect it may be digital attenuation if you go too much below that), so I would suspect you would be safe down to similar levels line in but don't know for sure - all I know is none of the consumer gear I own can overload the DR2D's line in even at 100.
If folks want to mess with helping me with initial mic in settings: I'll be running Charter Oak m900 omnis > Littlebox pre > DR2d.
For something like Railroad Earth (about the loudest I ever tape), running Audix M1290 > Littlebox (no Xformers) > DR2D mic in (low, 70) I'd probably start at 10:00 or so on the LB. So if you figure out how different the sensitivity of your mics is from mine, and how much louder your shows, you have a starting point.
The DR2d takes a max mic input of -16dbV, which I'd easily go over unless I built another set of attenuator cables, which I did, this time -16db cables. Even with those, I figure I'd hit the overload point with 10-20db of gain from my littlebox.
Maybe, but it depends how hot your mics are and how loud your shows. FWIW, I find that I can feed the mic in (low, 70) of my DR2d from the RCA outs of a consumer DVD player playing a commercial CD with no problem. Nominal consumer line out is -10 dBV, so maybe the DR2D mic in actually has more headroom than spec'd or maybe the DVD player is set a ways below nominal consumer line level.
And of course, why not just run the Littlebox at lower gain?
I bought it to do SBD/AUD MTXs using the Mic In off the SBD (using Level 65 and Low sensitivity) and the Line In off my Littlebox
so I may need to get attenuators for the SBD input... we'll see
This seems a little backwards to me...unless you have really hot mics I think mic in / low / 70 should work fine for the Littlebox's output at minimum or even moderate gain whereas a SBD could easily be too hot for the mic in without attenuation. I realize with some preamps folks like to deliberately overdrive their internals to get euphonic distortion, necessitating high gain, but I'm not sure the Littlebox falls into that category so why not just back off the gain a little?
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I bought it to do SBD/AUD MTXs using the Mic In off the SBD (using Level 65 and Low sensitivity) and the Line In off my Littlebox
so I may need to get attenuators for the SBD input... we'll see
This seems a little backwards to me...unless you have really hot mics I think mic in / low / 70 should work fine for the Littlebox's output at minimum or even moderate gain whereas a SBD could easily be too hot for the mic in without attenuation. I realize with some preamps folks like to deliberately overdrive their internals to get euphonic distortion, necessitating high gain, but I'm not sure the Littlebox falls into that category so why not just back off the gain a little?
I think it seems a little backwards not being able to control my levels while recording
I can control the Line In with the Littlebox since I can't on the recorder while recording
but I can control the Mic In on the unit while recording
like I said, I may need attenuators... we'll see
EDIT:
we've had this discussion before and I still don't understand why someone wouldn't want to be in control of their input levels ???
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I bought it to do SBD/AUD MTXs using the Mic In off the SBD (using Level 65 and Low sensitivity) and the Line In off my Littlebox
so I may need to get attenuators for the SBD input... we'll see
This seems a little backwards to me...unless you have really hot mics I think mic in / low / 70 should work fine for the Littlebox's output at minimum or even moderate gain whereas a SBD could easily be too hot for the mic in without attenuation. I realize with some preamps folks like to deliberately overdrive their internals to get euphonic distortion, necessitating high gain, but I'm not sure the Littlebox falls into that category so why not just back off the gain a little?
I think it seems a little backwards not being able to control my levels while recording
I can control the Line In with the Littlebox since I can't on the recorder while recording
but I can control the Mic In on the unit while recording
like I said, I may need attenuators... we'll see
Hmm, I see your point, but there's not much you can usefully do to control levels if going mic in on a board feed...if 65 is too hot, just turning down the gain on the DR2D is likely just going to give you a distorted recording at lower levels. Maybe you'd want to turn up the gain a bit for a really low level board feed, but do you really care if your board recording hits full scale on the peaks?
But then I'm not a guy who likes to ride my gain while recording, I'll turn it down if clipping but otherwise don't like to make adjustments during the music. YMMV.
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when doing SBD/AUD MTXs I don't want a HOT signal from either source since they tend to clip when rendered
I also have a great relation with both my local soundfellas and we can work on the output level from the SBD before the show
I rarely if ever do MTXs anywhere else, so the DR-2d is kinda just something to play with since I gave up on using a 680
if I were serious about doing MTXs alot, I wouldn't be using a Tascam unit
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Thanks again for the replies fellas, esp Will for the detailed response.
In answer to some of the questions, I am just testing out the DR2d and still at this point consider the D50 to be my main recorder. Plus the D50 takes a digital signal from the V3 so it is just a bit bucket. The DR2d will be for 4ch recording for me, and this weekend that will mean 4 mic recording with cards and omnis.
I'll be setting my levels on the V3 to get the right recording on the D50, so I don't want to set the V3 levels to match the needs of the DR2d. The DR2d might be good for consumer gear and seems like it has been ok for many users, but my V3 will put out 16.8dbV, so almost 11dbV more than the line input of the DR2d can take. Since I'll be running the V3 to set the right levels for the D50, I needed the attenuators for the V3>DR2d line input.
Pretty much the same thing for the LB. The littlebox has a minimum gain of 6db, and with that gain and my mics, given the -16dbV max mic input of the DR2d, I'll be overloading the DR2d with minimum gain on my LB beginning at 108db of sound pressure. I think plenty of the shows I go to are above that, esp if you consider real SPLs, not A-weighted SPL measurements. Truthfully, I think a lot of people are getting into the distortion range of their DR2d's run with external preamps, they're just not hearing it or noticing it in their recordings. I'd rather run attenuator cables and get away from that possibility.
On a side note for my use, my LB has output transformers and they have pleasant saturation artifacts as they are run hotter. Yes, definitely a choice to color the sound using the output transformers, but I'd prefer getting the output of the LB to the ~0dbV range to get more of this transformer saturation. That also means -16db attenuators make sense, but even still, given the 6db minimum LB gain and max DR2d mic input of -16dbV, I'd need at least -10db attenuator cables to allow SPLs of 118db, which I'd like to be able to accommodate to be on the safe side.
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I've also just done some testing by cranking up some pink noise on my stereo, and also cranking a lovely 1kHz test tone (that will drive you crazy after awhile). With this cranking, I set up some omnis on my V3 and cranked the gain.
I got the V3 so it was at about a constant -3dbFS on the digital outs, which should be ~14dbV on the analog outputs. Hooked up the -16db attenuator cables I made from the V3 to the DR2d line inputs on dual mode, with line set to 100. With the -16db cables, I should have been feeding about a -2dbV signal to the DR2d, or 8dbV below its max of +6dbV.
Just about perfectly, my recording levels for the test tones on the DR2d were about -8db, sometimes -9db. This looks to me like the +6dbV line input spec is true, and you will get a 0dbFS recording from the DR2d if you set it at 100 and feed it a +6dbV signal. It also seems to say that the +6dbV is indeed the max line input and the level control supplies attenuation only, not gain (with unity gain setting being 100).
Short of running the V3 on the lower side, it seems like using -11db attenuator cables between a V3 and a DR2d (line input) will insure you never overload the DR2d.
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This looks to me like the +6dbV line input spec is true, and you will get a 0dbFS recording from the DR2d if you set it at 100 and feed it a +6dbV signal. It also seems to say that the +6dbV is indeed the max line input and the level control supplies attenuation only, not gain (with unity gain setting being 100).
Hmmm, thanks for the extra info but something doesn't quite seem to add up. I'm just now recording a commercial CD via the RCA outs of my cheapo JVC DVD player, which I would assume is at consumer line level or below, i.e. -10dBV. So that should give me -16 dbFS at line in / 100 if +6dBV gives you 0 dbFS at line in / 100. But it's giving me peaks of -3 dBFS at line in / 100. Maybe my consumer DVD player runs hotter than I think, maybe our units are different, maybe it's an imedance issue, maybe...
???
EDIT:
we've had this discussion before and I still don't understand why someone wouldn't want to be in control of their input levels ???
Just see don't much need for it if it requires attenuators that wouldn't be needed in the chain otherwise. Especially if you can work with the FOH before the show starts, and you are setting levels conservatively because you want headroom for mixing in post. I just don't see the need for level adjustments on the fly in that situation. But whatever works for you.
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I wouldn't necessarily trust the nominal outputs of consumer gear to be that precise. I do personally trust the specs of Grace products, they seem to be built and marketed at a very professional level.
Even still, you're tests seem to be right in the same ballpark as mine, though they are not exact.
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I wouldn't necessarily trust the nominal outputs of consumer gear to be that precise. I do personally trust the specs of Grace products, they seem to be built and marketed at a very professional level.
Even still, you're tests seem to be right in the same ballpark as mine, though they are not exact.
I suppose so, if you call 13 dB the same ballpark. But again if my DVD player is really putting out a +3dBV signal, seems like the distortion at mic in / low / 70 should be quite audible. I really don't hear it. And it "should" be 19 dB too hot! I have to think there's an impedance issue here we're missing.
Strike this last part, and I have to amend some of my earlier statements about mic in 70 matching line in 100, or not distorting. I thought I recalled as much from before, but just double checked and the same CD that was hitting -3dB at line in 100 was clipping at mic in/70 and knocking it back to mic in / 65 gave audible distortion and flattened waveforms maxing out at ~-3 or -4 dbFS. "Audible", but it doesn't sound or look like something that's 19 dB too hot.
Edit: This is what I mean by not "looking" 19 dB too hot. Top is line in/100, bottom is mic in / 65.
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/LineVsMic.jpg
Note that the waveforms are ~identical wherever the mic in doesn't go above -6 dB or so. This suggests the signal was no more than 6 dB too hot, which would make sense for a -10dbV signal into a -16dbV max input.
I think the reason I had mic in 70 stuck in my head is that that is what I found to be the point where I didn't get brickwalling like this. So I'd recommend against running mic in at less than 70, and any signal that requires reducing gain below that is too hot.
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Sorry Will, scratch what I said. I read too quickly and thought you said you got -3dbFS when you were expecting 0. I really don't know how to make judgements using consumer gear that only show nominal output values. ???
My testing using my V3 which posts/specs max voltage out on the analog outputs when the V3 hits 0dbFS on its A/D tells me that the max line in seems to be +6dbV, as per the DR2d specs. I've also proved to myself that I need to use attenuator cables with my V3 if I want to send signals to both the D50 and the DR2d, so I guess I have the info I need and am good to go.
I only really need -11db cables though, so maybe sometime I'll get those built. Good enough for now, I'm anxious to get to the real field trials. :) It's also nice to know that by level matching between the V3 and DR2d, I can run the DR2d line in using the V3 and still be able to set my levels on the fly using the V3. The right -11db cables will make that more accurate, but at least I don't need to worry that the DR2d doesn't allow on-the-fly line-in adjustments.
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I think I'm good to go too in that I know I don't want to run the mic in any lower than 70. But your results would imply never run the line in below 100 (or at least, you need external attenuation for any signal that would hit full scale below line in 100) whereas I get very close to full scale with a signal that should be much lower than that, and just mildly brickwalls the mic in. But I found one page suggesting that typical DVD players can have max outputs close to 2V or 6 dbV. So maybe my DVD player does have a hot output, but the mic in can take a hotter signal than Tascam specs even if not quite as hot as the line in.
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I'm wondering if the max mic input is much higher than Tascam's stated -16dbV.
I'm not sure I'll get a chance for more testing until this weekend -- a little late considering I have a show to tape on Friday. :P Anyway, I'm going to try to do some more testing of the mic input using a 1kHz test tone fed through my V3. I may need to rely once again on the V3 specs being correct, but I might be able to measure the actual output voltage of the V3.
I only was testing before checking levels and testing my attenuator cables. I'd like to test the mic and line inputs using a pure 1kHz test tone and feed different output levels from the V3. I'm hoping that with a pure test tone input, it will be easy to spot distortion on the recorded wave and determine when that is occurring.
I certainly would like to record without attenuator cables. I'm pretty sure from my testing that I will need them for my V3 output since it is so hot, but I'm wondering if I really would need them for mics>Littlebox fed into the DR2d mic input.
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Excellent analysis guys. I'll be refering back to this.
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Since the files are split after the 2gb mark, is there and easy program that will join them together seamlessly?
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I'm wondering if the max mic input is much higher than Tascam's stated -16dbV.
Upon further review this appears to be correct. I did some testing today (details below), to summarize briefly:
Running line in below 100 will result in chopped waveforms. Scratch this - turns out it was my source that was clipping.
Running mic in below 67 will result in significant distortion. But levels between 67 and 99 provide usable attenuation (or lack of gain?). Mic in appears to be able to handle a signal as hot as within 4-5 dB to what the line in can handle at 100. Taking your V3 results at face value, that would suggest a max input on the mic in of about 0 dbV.
Details:
I generated a 1 KHz sine wave with peaks at -0.1 dBFS in Sound Studio on my Mac. Went USB out > Lyrix Headstage DAC/headphone amp at max output > DR2D (recording 24/44.1).
First, for a reference level, I found the digital volume adjustment needed on my Mac's output needed to yield levels just shy of triggering the clip light on the DR2D (it's worth noting this happened with meters at ~ - 2 dBFS) at line in / 100. This required a volume adjustment of -6.5 dB. http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/Tascam/LineIn100.wav [warning - these sine waves are not fun to listen to, especially at high volume]
Then I ramped the digital volume control up to -0.5 dBV. This required line in be bumped down to 94 to avoid clipping on the meters. The resulting file sounds audibly different and has visibly flattened peaks and an altered Fourier analysis - http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/Tascam/LineIn100.wavhttp://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/Tascam/LineIn94.wav While I suspect this level of distortion may not be blatantly obvious on more complex material, it does suggest there is no point running the line in below 100 and thus the lack of control over line in level while recording in dual mode is irrelevant - just set it to 100 and if you need lower levels, you need external attenuation.
Upon further review, it looks like the Lyrix that was clipping, not the DR2D. Putting an attenuator between the Lyrix and the DR2D still results in a clipped waveform. By contrast, I was able to burn a CD of the testfile go DVD out > Naiant Tinybox (+4dB gain) > DR2D which clipped the DR2D at line in / 100 but recorded cleanly at line in / 97. So the line in may be able to handle an even hotter signal at levels below 100, but just how much hotter is unclear.
As to the mic input: First, I suspected based on the published max input specs that the max input of the mic in, IF AT 100, might be the published -16 dBV, i.e. 22 dB lower than line in's max. And indeed, putting the digital volume control at -28.5 yielded the target levels for mic in 100, with no distortion. http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/Tascam/MicIn100.wav
But it turns out you can usefully attenuate the mic input with the internal level controls - but only down to 67 or so (I'll stick with 70 to be safe).
Results were:
-22.5 dB yields good levels at mic in / low / 88
-16.6 dB at 76
-13.8 at 70
-10.6 at 67
This appears to be the hottest signal it can take without distorting: http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/Tascam/MicIn67.wav
This is 4.1 dB lower than what gave me full scale at line in / 100. If that is +6dBV, it would imply a max input for the mic in about 5 dB lower, so +1dbV or 0dbV to be "safe".
Boosting the signal to -7.4 dB on the digital volume control to get "good" levels at mic in / 65 resulted in significantly more audible (and visible) distortion than the line in / 94 : http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/Tascam/MicIn65.wav
Just for fun I tried - 4.2 dB (i.e. 2 dB hotter than the line in could take), at mic in 61 it got even worse: http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/Tascam/MicIn61.wav
It occurred to me that distortion and max input levels might be frequency-dependent, so I reran the -10.6 playback into mic in 67, with a sine wave at 42 Hz. It was clean: http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/Tascam/BassTest.wav
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:coolguy:
Great stuff Will, thanks for the detailed testing!!
Though clearly I couldn't pinpoint that level of accuracy, those results conform with what I was seeing last night for my first run with the DR2d. The max line in does seem to be +6dbV or something close to it, using my V3 spec'd out as a reference. But like you found in your testing, it seemed the mic input could take a lot more than the stated -16dbV. I was feeding it 10-12db more gain from the littlebox than I was expecting, and had the mic levels bumped up to 76.
Everything came out great on the maiden voyage. I did a pretty quick mixdown of Pigeons>Fishwater using 4ch of Milab vm44 (cards) > V3, and Charter Oak m900 (wide split omnis) > littlebox. Sounds very good!! I'm looking forward to what I can get with a little more effort towards a 4ch mix.
Really a nice little recorder!
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Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread, I’ve been looking at getting another machine since my brother adopted my GT-R1. I record ambient sound, people at Fourth of July fireworks, thunderstorms, sounds around town ect. Concert recording is limited to kids concerts and outdoor music at county fairs and festivals. I was looking at the Sony PCM-M10, that so many people seem to like. The DR-07 MKII, great sound but limited in features I may want in the future. And the DR-100, great sound, ability to use quality external mikes with xlr inputs and sd/sdhc cards. And being familiar with the Tascam layout & controls, I was ready to pull the trigger on the DR-100 then started hearing about the DR-2D, and the more I researched, the more I liked. Now 75% of what you folks were discussing in this thread went right over my head, but what I was able to comprehend is the DR-2D is a capable recorder. Sounds like the battery life issue has been taken care of, and that was the major gripe. Plus I can still utilize external mikes in the future, just not XLR, enjoy as good or better sound quality than the GT-R1, all in a small stealthy package. So it looks like I’ll order the DR-2D next payday. Thanks again for all the great info……
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Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread, I’ve been looking at getting another machine since my brother adopted my GT-R1. I record ambient sound, people at Fourth of July fireworks, thunderstorms, sounds around town ect. Concert recording is limited to kids concerts and outdoor music at county fairs and festivals. I was looking at the Sony PCM-M10, that so many people seem to like. The DR-07 MKII, great sound but limited in features I may want in the future. And the DR-100, great sound, ability to use quality external mikes with xlr inputs and sd/sdhc cards. And being familiar with the Tascam layout & controls, I was ready to pull the trigger on the DR-100 then started hearing about the DR-2D, and the more I researched, the more I liked. Now 75% of what you folks were discussing in this thread went right over my head, but what I was able to comprehend is the DR-2D is a capable recorder. Sounds like the battery life issue has been taken care of, and that was the major gripe. Plus I can still utilize external mikes in the future, just not XLR, enjoy as good or better sound quality than the GT-R1, all in a small stealthy package. So it looks like I’ll order the DR-2D next payday. Thanks again for all the great info……
Besides the battery issue with the DR-2D, there was also another somewhat common issue: SD card incompatibilities. The 2D seems to be fairly picky about what card you use. I had an issue with a Transcend card (received FILE ERROR) on my first recording. I switched to a Class 4 Kingston (as recommended here) and my next show came off with no hitches.
It's a great little unit with lot's of potential.
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Anecdotal, but I think the card comaptibility issue may have been improved with one of the firmware issues as well. I'm using a couple different Trancend 32 GB cards along with various Kingstons regularly, and have used a couple other makes on occasion with no card issues.
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Hey Gutbucket............. what happened with your deck that you had to send in for repairs? I have a friend that thinks that he zapped his deck with too strong of battery.... said he thinks that he blew a fuse or something?? Thanks.
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Repaired under warrantee. I think they replaced the main board, but not sure on the details. I had someone handle it for me and didn't talk with Tascam about it myself.
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The max line in does seem to be +6dbV or something close to it, using my V3 spec'd out as a reference.
Did you ever try out a hotter signal into line in set to less than 100? Looks like it was my headphone amp that was clipping, not the DR2D; so its line in may take a hotter signal than spec'd as well. Putting my Tinybox between my DVD out and the DR2D in, adding +4 dB gain, I was clipping the DR2D at line in/100 but I could record the same signal cleanly at line in / 97.
Unfortunately the next setting on my Tinybox is +18dB. At that level, the DR2D could not get a clean recording but then the Tinybox's clip light was on and it was being asked to output a hotter signal than it is spec'd for, so it's not clear whether the DR2D could have handled the signal or not.
I think you should be able to feed your V3 a line signal so you don't need to subject your ears and mics to a test tone at crazy volumes...
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I plan to come back and review the level analysis when I have more time to get my head around it.. but one thing comes to mind which you all may have already taken into account: Does converting an balanced output from the V3 to unbalanced for the input of the FR2d reduce level by -6dB? If so that should be taken into account when reading the V3 meters. Please let me know if I'm off-base.
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No Will, after your testing it seemed like it was covered and I never got back to it. I'll try to get some time this weekend to run through some more testing using the V3. You're right though, no reason to do it using mics, I can just send the 1kHz signal line-in from my Mac to the V3. My ears will thank me for that.
Gut -- you're right, the unbalanced signal is 6db lower, but that has already been accounted for. The V3 specs are +25dbu max at 0dbFS balanced, or +19dbu max unbalanced. I've been using the +19dbu (+16.8dbV) number for my calculations.
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Today I ran a run-time test with my 2 year old La Crosse 2600 Mah batteries. With a fresh charge I was able to run 4 channels in dual mode at 24/48 for a total of 9 hours and 10 minutes. I first filled up my 16gb Kingston class 4 card (6 hours and 58 minutes), then quick formatted (in my dr2d with the same batteries) my 8 gb class 6 patriot card and recorded for an additional 2 hours and 12 minutes. I'm going to continue testing with the other 6 La Crosse batteries I've got to see if they all can provide such relatively stellar performance.
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Rockin'
I've been meaning to re-try the several year old 2400 Mah NiMH that would only run the recorder for less than 15 minutes last fall before the firmware updates, which I've since replaced. Curious how long they'll go.
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Rockin'
I've been meaning to re-try the several year old 2400 Mah NiMH that would only run the recorder for less than 15 minutes last fall before the firmware updates, which I've since replaced. Curious how long they'll go.
Yea, let us know :)
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So, what places have the best price for one of these?
I've got a couple shows coming up in September, and it's time for a new recorder.
I'm tired of lugging the D8 around.
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So, what places have the best price for one of these?
I don't know if it's the best price, but I just ordered one from B&H for $185. I did not check many other places as I'm in Europe and B&H simply offers the best shipping options for me (including customs clearance and all)...
Update: Apparently it was just delivered. I'm quite surprised by the shipping speed. It only took 3 days from NY to Germany ;)
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Sebastian, sorry for the thread-jack, but can you explain how the B&H customs clearance works out?
Your parcel won't get seized by the German customs in transit?
Does B&H calculate the cost of the customs in advance and charge you before shipping? I could imagine that this works out cheaper than the traditional way?!
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Couple quick questions.
I know they have been covered in this thread, but there is a lot to go back through.
With the firmware upgrades, what is the average battery life now?
And which memory cards seem to work best with it?
Or, more importantly, are there any brands to definitely stay away from?
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Sebastian, sorry for the thread-jack, but can you explain how the B&H customs clearance works out?
Your parcel won't get seized by the German customs in transit?
Does B&H calculate the cost of the customs in advance and charge you before shipping? I could imagine that this works out cheaper than the traditional way?!
This is exactly how it works out. When I put the recorder into the shopping cart and selected Germany as the destination country, they automatically calculated all costs and gave me the option of paying for all customs and handling fees in advance. I could have also opted for paying the carrier (UPS) on delivery, but I didn't see any advantage in doing so.
Look at the UPS tracking info (http://wwwapps.ups.com/etracking/tracking.cgi?tracknums_displayed=&TypeOfInquiryNumber=T&InquiryNumber1=1ZE6W3110455285227) for the package (click on "Shipping Progress"). As you can see, UPS cleared the item with German customs when it was still in the U.S. That made for an awesome quick delivery ;)
In total, I ended up paying around 200 EUR. The unity price for the DR-2d here in Germany seems to be around 280-290 EUR. So, even with all the fees I still saved 80 to 90 EUR ;)
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Interesting, thanks for sharing.
I just received my tinybox (value $249) and had to pay $95 in fees upon arrival.
When checking the B&H for equivalent gear, there's $114 in fees on a $249 item.
I guess the total incl fees to B&H comes out slightly higher than paying local customs, but it might be worth it for the sake of predictability and faster handling.
</threadjack>
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My first recording with the DR-2d is up on Dime (24 (http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=369529)/16 (http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=369528) bit). Didn't come out too shabby ;)
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Couple quick questions.
I know they have been covered in this thread, but there is a lot to go back through.
With the firmware upgrades, what is the average battery life now?
And which memory cards seem to work best with it?
Or, more importantly, are there any brands to definitely stay away from?
Still hoping for answers.
I've got a DR-2D coming in the mail.
Next concert is less than a month away. Hope to get it all figured out and ready to roll by then.
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Here's my first AUD/SBD matrix with the DR-2d. ...And You Will Know Us By the Trail of Dead from a few weeks ago. Came out quite good, considering the really bad sounding room...
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=148575.0
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Update: Apparently it was just delivered. I'm quite surprised by the shipping speed. It only took 3 days from NY to Germany ;)
How much you paid finally for it?;)
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I am looking into buying one soon!
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How do you all feel about the internals on the DR2D? Ive run them a few times and am relatively pleased with it, compared to my Church Audios that is... Yes I know, i need better mics but LMAO good luck with that... some day.
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Way better than the omnis in the original R-09.
I've only recorded my own guitar twanging and yodeling around the house with the externals and it does a pretty good job gaff taped onto the face of an acoustic. No idea about using them for typical taping, but get the recorder in a good enough spot and point it in the right direction and they might do pretty well.
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Will let you know later. I had to use the internals tonight.
Got busted on a stealth taping. (saw my mic cable)
Promised to not tape anymore, and they let me keep my stuff.
To play it safe, I stowed the mics away and just used the DR-2D's internals while in my jacket breast-pocket.
When I get a chance to check the sound, I'll post back.
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Better than the cheap mics I was using.
With the results I got, I'm glad security busted me.
Her is a sample of Avenged Sevenfold that I got last night.
http://www.tylisaari.com/misc/boots/sample/A7X11sample-amp.mp3
As I said, this was in my jean-jacket breast-pocket, Hence the reason it is somewhat muffled.
All I did was boost the volume, as I had my levels set way too low.
(looks like I had it down around 50)
It actually sounds better, than it did to my ears at the show.
During the show, I had trouble picking the lyrics out of the music, due to the mix.
The guitars were really up front in the mix.
I do note that the internal mics don't capture bass very well though.
The sound was actually very bass heavy at the show.
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You had the low cut set to off?
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Yeah. Low cut was off.
Gain set to low.
Had the same thing happen tonight. Good sound, but not much bass.
And this time I had it so flap on the jacket pocket was fixed so it wasn't covering the recorder.
So I think the internals just don't reproduce base very well.
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Hi there!
I´d like to ask about the dual mode with 2 sets of mics.
I already have the tascam but I´d like to start using ext mikes to record my and my friends classical solo and chamber music gigs. The question is about preamps I think(?) Is it possible to use two preamps with this machine? For example preamps like Dav bg1, and Grace lunatec?
I´m pretty bad at all kinds of specs so all the talking about balanced/unbalanced, professional level signal, dbFS, +6dbV, using attenuation cables etc. are a bit unclear to me :-[. I wonder if shutting PIP makes the mic in work like another line in connection? . All recommendations are welcome!
Thank you!
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Even with PIP off, the mic in is still more sensitive than the line in.
That said, if you don't add too much gain with your external preamps, you should probably be fine as it doesn't sound like you'll be recording anything ear-bleedingly loud.
My suggestion: Set the mic-in input to 70 (and line in to 100). Then get the levels you want by adjusting your preamp.
If even at the preamp's settings your levels are too high, you can take the Tascam's mic input as low as 67. If levels are still too high, you need to somehow attenuate the signal coming out of your preamp.
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If levels are still too high, you need to somehow attenuate the signal coming out of your preamp.
One way of doing this: http://www.thomann.de/gb/maudio_microtrack_10db_pad.htm
I've used this a few times now for very loud shows when the line-in was used to patch from the board. It works just fine.
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Thanks for the replies!
I mainly will record strings alone or with piano and even with some woodwinds sometimes. Even it´s not loud compared to amplified shows, it´s maybe a good idea to buy a pad. Big grand pianos can be quite a loud if spot miked, I think.
By the way: How would you rate the quality of DR-2ds mic in? Do you think it could be a solution to use phantom supply like this http://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_pp2b.htm or here popular Denecke PS-2 instead of another external preamp? Or would it suit better for amplified music?
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You probably won't need a pad at the reasonable mic to instrument distances you will probably want to use for what you are recording, but dependng on the sensitivity of the microphones, you may not add much gain if any on your external preamps. You'll need to use adapter cables though to connect the balanced XLR outputs of the preamps or phantom power supply to the unbalanced 3.5mm TRS stereo input jacks of the DR2d.
If your mics are quite sensitive, just the phantom supply can work. But the preamps you mention are regarded as good quality and can be set to add no additional gain, so if you have them, use them. Eitherway, follow the input level advice of Will_S above and also remember to set the mic input sensitivity to low in the recorder's menu. With only a phantom power supply, you can add mic-input gain on the recorder above the "do not go below level" of 67 if necessary without a problem. You can't add gain above 100 on the line-input though, and you shouldn't try to attenuate a hot line-input with settings any less than 95.
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So, a few questions:
1. How do you put on new Firmware?
2. What do you set the INPUT at? MIC or LINE ???
3. Do you do a "quick" or "full" format on the SDHC Cards ???
I tried the full format and after 25 mins I just turned it off and took out batteries and put it back in and did a quick format.
I think thats it for now
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WOWZA, thats 1.5 hours I'll never get back :P Happy folks :P I read all 19 pages ;D 8) Just have those 2 main questions answered :)
TIA,
Bean
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32 Gb cards don't work in the Dr-2d, btw
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32 Gb cards don't work in the Dr-2d, btw
How do you figure? The manual says it will take SDHC cards up to 32 GB, and several are listed on the tested media list:
http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/42/dr-2d_media_list_en_r4_20110615.pdf
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32 Gb cards don't work in the Dr-2d, btw
Several class 4 & 6 Kingston & class 10 Transcend 32GB SDHC cards work fine for me.
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HOW DO YOU INSTALL FIRMWARE ???
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HOW DO YOU INSTALL FIRMWARE ???
INSTRUCTIONS ARE IN THESE RELEASE NOTES:
http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/42/E_DR-2d_RN_vA.pdf
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Thanks. Yeah sorry bout that. I read every thread on ts.com about the damn dr2s and still couldnt find one person saying HOW they updated their firmware :) I even read the PDF Manual!
Thanks
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Thanks. Yeah sorry bout that. I read every thread on ts.com about the damn dr2s and still couldnt find one person saying HOW they updated their firmware :) I even read the PDF Manual!
Thanks
No problem. Good luck!
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SUCCESS. +T ;D
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How do you adjust the MIC-IN levels to 65 in the menu ??? I only have control of the LINE-IN levels, which I was told to keep around 95. I don't see ANYWHERE where it says change gain on MIC IN. My MIC INPUT is set to MIC-IN and my MIC IN is set to LOW. Also, how does one control the mic input levels when recording DUAL MODE, where I'll be recording 2 separate stereo tracks :)
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How do you adjust the MIC-IN levels to 65 in the menu ??? I only have control of the LINE-IN levels, which I was told to keep around 95. I don't see ANYWHERE where it says change gain on MIC IN. My MIC INPUT is set to MIC-IN and my MIC IN is set to LOW. Also, how does one control the mic input levels when recording DUAL MODE, where I'll be recording 2 separate stereo tracks :)
Are you saying that the +/- record level buttons on the side are only changing the line in input level? If so I think you must have the input set to line in. (Change this by MENU > INPUT SETTINGS > INPUT:MIC and GAIN:LOW [and unless you are running PIP mics directly with no battery box or preamp, POWER:OFF]).
If you have the input set to mic in, the +/- levels should adjust mic in levels (although they only work when you are recording or in record-pause). You really don't want to go below 67 on that (at least, not if you are hitting full scale. If you want peaks at say -6 for later matrixing, then you are probably safe as low as 65).
In dual mode (be sure to set it to dual, with mode LINE, not safe or mix - set this at the screen you get to by holding down the DUAL button for a few seconds), the +/- buttons should affect the mic in recording level and can be adjusted on the fly (and only work while in rec or rec-pause). The line in levels cannot be adjusted while recording, but when you enter dual mode (same screen you set it to line) there is a number (defaults as 100) that you can adjust (before you start recording) to your desired level although as I recall the line in can't offer much useful attenuation so you probably don't want to drop the levels too far below 100).
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Nope, its in MIC IN LOW setting and I can only adjust the LINE-IN levels. And YES I hit the DUAL button and it goes to the LINE-IN channels but that's the problem :P
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Nope, its in MIC IN LOW setting and I can only adjust the LINE-IN levels. And YES I hit the DUAL button and it goes to the LINE-IN channels but that's the problem :P
Right - like I said in the post above, you have to be in rec or rec pause (red light on or at least flashing - hit rec once to get into rec-pause and again to start actually recording) for the +/- level buttons to work. You can't set the mic in recording levels from a menu, only using the level control buttons while in record mode.
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Thanks alot man, all fixed now. I just don't know why they don't put the levels to the right of the MIC IN, like they did the LINE IN ??? :P :)
Happy Holidays bro!
Bean
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Hey guys, sorry if this has been covered. I've read through the posts but I'm still a bit confused. This looks like a neat little unit and I'm considering buying one to to dual recording.
Say I want to run two sets of mics (cards & omnis) into the mic-in and line-in, and record to 2 separate files...
* I would set the dual recording option to LINE to make this happen, right?
* Do I understand correctly that gain can only be set on rec-pause and not changed while recording?
* On the LINE setting, is the mic-in gain controlled separately or only as a calculated value based on line-in level?
Based on my reading it sounds like two CA-9100's or similar are required to have full control over level settings for dual recording...is that right?
Thanks!
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would you not be able to get away with just a BBox on the Mic Input and put the Pre into Line In?
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Say I want to run two sets of mics (cards & omnis) into the mic-in and line-in, and record to 2 separate files...
* I would set the dual recording option to LINE to make this happen, right?
Yes.
* Do I understand correctly that gain can only be set on rec-pause and not changed while recording?
No. The mic in recording level can be changed in rec-pause or on the fly. (But not via a menu setting before even pressing the record button).
* On the LINE setting, is the mic-in gain controlled separately or only as a calculated value based on line-in level?
If you mean dual/line mode, you have real-time control over the mic-in gain but cannot change the line input on the fly, rather you set it in advance via a menu setting that cannot be changed while recording.
Based on my reading it sounds like two CA-9100's or similar are required to have full control over level settings for dual recording...is that right?
Not entirely. You'd want a CA-9100 or similar upstream of the line input if you wanted to change levels on the fly. Mic-in you could just use a battery box (or directly into the powered mic input if not recording loud sounds) and control gain with the recorder.
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When using the DR2d line-input for SBD patches I've pluged an extra pair of Countryman B3s into the low-voltage powered mic input mostly because they were sitting there in the bag, why not.. gaff taped them wide spaced to the soundboard enclosure, back wall, etc. It powered those acceptably each time.
But my standard rig with the DR2d is two Curch CA-Ugly preamps, one into each input for the smallest 4channel low voltage preamped recording rig I know of.. as long as set gain is cool. I just set the gain beforehand and don't plan to adjust it. Know the rig, know the gig, aim to peak -12 to -18dB and how often do you really need to adjust gain after you've been doing this for a while? Nice little package for that. A single, tiny 4 channel amp would be even more trick though.
BTW, I only use it to start & stop recording, but you can adjust mic-input gain with the IR remote any time you like, even when the hold button is locked.
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Thanks guys, your replies are helpful. I went ahead and ordered a DR-2D. Good price - seems super cheap considering the features it has.
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Thanks guys, your replies are helpful. I went ahead and ordered a DR-2D. Good price - seems super cheap considering the features it has.
100% agreed! Cant beat it for a small handheld 4chan unit
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Need to pick up a new hand held before Wanee, would yall recommend this one. Will be coming out of a VMS5U into recorder. Was hoping for something a little cheaper than the M10. I will not be using it for anything other than line in. Thoughts.............?
Todd
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It depends on what you are after. I own the Sony D50 and from what I've heard from it, I'd choose it or the similar Sony M10 over the DR2d (also own that) for 2ch work.
If you want to do 4ch work, or at least have the option, the DR2d is a good choice for a small, cheap 4ch recorder (though granted, it has little competition at its size and price level for 4ch).
The DR2d can overload fairly easily though, so you will either need to keep the VMS5U set low or get a set of attenuator cables. I run the DR2d out of my Lunatec V3, which I keep cranked since I also run that digitally into the D50, so I use a set of attenuator cables between the V3 and DR2d.
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I think I'll go with M10. Thanks for the response.
Todd
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OK, I pulled the trigger and ordered a DR-2d. Needed a second deck as I'm starting to get requests to be at two shows at the same time. Also wanted to do some 4 channel work.
Has anyone here used one with AT853 and battery box?
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I did my first trial run with the DR-2d at a recent metal show. I used Dual Line mode to test the mode itself and also to test my SP-CMC-8 cards vs. CA-14 cards in the same environment. I ran CMC-8 > batt box > mic-in and CA-14 > CA-9100 > line-in. This allowed me to adjust the gain on line-in via the CA-9100. I ran the mic-in level at about 85 for this show.
The DR-2d worked great, no problems at all with dual recording. Very cool! I set the line-in gain to 98 beforehand. This was a loud metal show and even with the line-in gain at 98 I needed the CA-9100 cranked to nearly 100% to reach -6 db on the meters. (Does this make me a candidate for the CA-9200 with its higher gain ceiling?)
Unfortunately I lost the L channel on the CA-14 input about halfway through the set. Still not sure what happened...could be the patch cable from the CA-9100 to the DR-2d but I need to do some more testing.
In the end I actually like the sound of both the CA-14 and the CMC-8 mics at this show. Maybe I'll put up some samples for you guys to pick apart ;-)
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Bummer bout L chan dropping out. Id love to hear that comp! When my new LB comes, I will be trying my DR2D out for a show the 1st time. Its a local dead cover band who loves when I tape their shows :) I will be running mk41>Sax>Line-In & BSC2>LB>Mic-In
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FIRST POST.
Complete NEWB.
Extremely limited audio knowledge.
I just ordered the DR-2d.
Ive been kicking around the idea of recording shows for about 20 freaking years now. I guess I always thought that I'd need around $5000 just to get my feet wet. Apparently that is not the case any more. It should arive later this week and Im extremely stoked to get it. Im sure I'll be posting on this forum occasionally (or at least reading it) for suggestions and reviews.
I pretty much still need EVERYTHING (except a recorder) so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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FIRST POST.
Complete NEWB.
Extremely limited audio knowledge.
I just ordered the DR-2d.
Ive been kicking around the idea of recording shows for about 20 freaking years now. I guess I always thought that I'd need around $5000 just to get my feet wet. Apparently that is not the case any more. It should arive later this week and Im extremely stoked to get it. Im sure I'll be posting on this forum occasionally (or at least reading it) for suggestions and reviews.
I pretty much still need EVERYTHING (except a recorder) so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
typical response...
what's your budget?
what is your application... loud or quiet music?
what's your setup... open or stealth?
welcome to the world of tapers :)
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budget: unknown. Would like to find some decent mics for around $300 or less, if thats even possible
application: mostly loud, live shows with an audience. Everything from bluegrass to electronica
setup: open. I dont really have a desire to hide what Im doing, but I guess I would entertain the idea
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Mics under $300 there are two popular ways to go,
New mics from Church Audio like the CA-14, along with one of his preamps
Used mics, you can find Avantone CK-1, Busman BCS1, Rode NT5, and Studio Projects C4 mics in your price range. These mics require 48v phantom power and will need either a phantom power supply like the Deneke PS-2 or a Preamp such as the Naiant Tinybox 2. Check the yardsale section of this board to see what is available.
Both Church and Naiant are active on this board in the retail section.
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budget: unknown. Would like to find some decent mics for around $300 or less, if thats even possible
application: mostly loud, live shows with an audience. Everything from bluegrass to electronica
setup: open. I dont really have a desire to hide what Im doing, but I guess I would entertain the idea
I have a DR-2D as my backup/small recorder. I have a DR-100 also. I bought a pair of CA-14/9100 cardiods for my 12 year old son to use with the DR-2D. Very small rig for stealthing in your price point. He will be breaking it in for http://www.strictlybluegrass.com/warren/info.shtml . I'm sure it is fine for "non stealth" applications too.
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Glitch!
Deck is stuck in rec/pause after 1:40:08 gig. Used the remote to pause while walking out and disscovered in the car that neither the remote nor transport buttons on the unit work. All other buttons on the unit function OK. Can't power down the deck as that requires holding the 'stop' button. Drove home pusing buttons occasionally, holding the deck near the AC vent to cool it down, etc. Thinking I'll need to pop the batteries out to shut it down but worried about the file not writing correctly..
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Killed power by popping out the batteries. Seems OK on re-power-up. Files wrote fine and transfered OK. Hmmmmm.
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B & H Photo has the "white" ones on sale for $124.99 w/ free shipping. That's an amazing deal.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=tascam+dr2d&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
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Killed power by popping out the batteries. Seems OK on re-power-up. Files wrote fine and transfered OK. Hmmmmm.
Thats crazy man! I ran mine for DAYS in front of my TV and had ZERO problems. Hope thats what happens in the field too. I'm still running my 2 x M10's for each of my rigs in case something happens to my DR2D recording :)
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"Killed power by popping out the batteries. Seems OK on re-power-up. Files wrote fine and transfered OK. Hmmmmm."
I had this same experience early on after the deck hit the floor ( I am more aware of the headphone cable length now!) and was fretting all the way home. But all was well when I loaded the SD card into the computer.
Another more unfortunate experience prompts me to offer additional advice: whenever you remove the batteries (which seems to resolve some hangups) check/reset all your settings.
Edit to add: The first instance happened after the show. The second tragic one happened as the the second set was starting, and although the levels looked ok (as has been pointed out in this thread) they were not. I originally had the mic LEVEL set to LOW, but after re-power-up the unit must have changed to MED or HIGH (I didn't think to check later) and the DUAL function was not longer set (I originally had it set to -6dB which might have saved the recording.)
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I have hundreds of hours on two of these recorders and this was the first glitch. I'll test it before I use it again, but I'm not overly concerned. I was using a big 32GB card which had not be formated for a while with lots of other stuff on there, some files deleated to make enough space, so that may well have been the issue.
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The first scare prompted me to buy a second unit also, and I am only a beginner, but I am very satisfied so far.
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I have hundreds of hours on two of these recorders and this was the first glitch. I'll test it before I use it again, but I'm not overly concerned. I was using a big 32GB card which had not be formated for a while with lots of other stuff on there, some files deleated to make enough space, so that may well have been the issue.
Yeah, that sounds like the culprit!
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What level is everyone running the line in at?? Is there a Unity setting?? Thanks
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95-100
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Wow that high!! I guess I'm use to the M10 set to 4 so 95 seems up there. How about the Mic in?? Thanks for the help Gutbucket.
95-100
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Think of the line-in setting more as an attenuation from 100 down. Brickwalling becomes possible at or below a low 90's setting.
A setting of ~67 on the mic-input (switched to the low-gain range) is equivalent to a line-in setting of 95 100. Brickwalling becomes possible at or below the low 60's.
The DR2d cannot accept nearly as hot a signal as the M10, but when used within it's comfort range it sounds great.
Enjoy!
[edit, I think it's actually line-in 100 = mic-in 67]
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Thanks man!! I love the M10 the Dr 2d will be my Aud+SDB recorder/backup recorder. I appreciate your help.
Think of the line-in setting more as an attenuation from 100 down. Brickwalling becomes possible at or below a low 90's setting.
A setting of ~67 on the mic-input (switched to the low-gain range) is equivalent to a line-in setting of 95. Brickwalling becomes possible at or below the low 60's.
The DR2d cannot accept nearly as hot a signal as the M10, but when used within it's comfort range it sounds great.
Enjoy!
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Think of the line-in setting more as an attenuation from 100 down. Brickwalling becomes possible at or below a low 90's setting.
A setting of ~67 on the mic-input (switched to the low-gain range) is equivalent to a line-in setting of 95. Brickwalling becomes possible at or below the low 60's.
The DR2d cannot accept nearly as hot a signal as the M10, but when used within it's comfort range it sounds great.
Enjoy!
OK, after reading all the pages I could on this, I just have try one of these.
I still think the R44 is going to be too big for me, but I'm not completely against it, just that 4 channels in your pocket!
Thanks for all the research & development!
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Wondering about "brickwalling" on DR-2d for LEVEL settings below ~70 (when using internal mics). Comments here sound like it's a known/expected/useful feature, but I thought setting the LEVEL between 0 and 100 should just scale the recording between 0% and 100% (unless doing so causes overloading or falling into the noise). My experience is when I reduce the LEVEL below ~70, the waveform envelope for the rest of the recording is flattened (I assume this is "brickwalling"), not showing the natural variation that was seen earlier in the recording, when the LEVEL was above ~70. What am I missing? How should I think of this as a good thing?
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All mentions I've made to brickwalling on the DR2d refer to signal sent to the mic-input and line-input jacks. Brickwalling refers to the analog input stage overloading before the ADC does. Since the metering is done at the ADC, the meters and clip light on the recorder will not indicate that overload. That means a hot signal can overload the input and cause distortion, even though the level shown on the meters and clipping light indicator indicate what would appear to be good levels- if the signal level is increased further, distortion will increase, but the meter peak level will not. The average level indicated on the meter will increase however, and you may notice the meters behaving differently by 'bouncing' or moving less than would be expected. That behavior is a good hint that brickwalling may be occurring, but isn't obvious.
It is possible to use settings below a line input setting of ~93 or a mic input (low gain) setting of ~60 without overload, but only if your set it so that your recorded level peaks lower than full scale. The lower you set the input gain (to accommodate a hotter signal), the lower the point at which overload will occur below full scale- the point at which you won't be able to tell when the brickwall distortion begins by looking at the meters or clip lights. There is no benefit at all from using a lower input level and trying to avoid that 'invisible' overload point. You'll only use less of the effective dynamic range which the recorder is capable of, it will still overload at the same point, and the meters will lie to you.
The short version is this- If the meters are peaking with an mic-input level of ~64 or a line-input level of ~95, then turning it down on the recorder won't help, even though it looks like it does from simply looking at he meters. Instead you'll need to reduce the signal level before it reaches the recorder inputs.
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Wondering about "brickwalling" on DR-2d for LEVEL settings below ~70 (when using internal mics). Comments here sound like it's a known/expected/useful feature, but I thought setting the LEVEL between 0 and 100 should just scale the recording between 0% and 100% (unless doing so causes overloading or falling into the noise). My experience is when I reduce the LEVEL below ~70, the waveform envelope for the rest of the recording is flattened (I assume this is "brickwalling"), not showing the natural variation that was seen in the recording before, when the LEVEL was above ~70. What am I missing? How should I think of this as a good thing?
I realized I didn't really address the part of your question I bolded above.
Ideally, level setting should work as you mention. Brickwalling is a problem and not useful at all, but it's the expected behaviour or many inexpensive all-in-one recorders. It is a form of overload where the analog input stage overloads before the digital conversion stage (ADC). Why manufacturer's don't limit the gain range to prevent settings which cause it is what I'd like to know.
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Thank you for your informative replies, Gutbucket. I had suspected that there were two points where overloading could occur, but didn't suspect that the meters would only show the latter :-(
During sound checks, I had started with GAIN=HIGH and lowered LEVEL until it didn't peak. In tonight's recording (electric guitars in a coffee shop setting), I'll try the opposite - start with GAIN=LOW or MID and increase LEVEL for good meter indication (and hope for the best, since the meters are not completely reliable).
While that understanding explains some home tests I did, I'm not sure it explains my previous experience (same electric guitars in same coffee shop setting) that started my concern, where only lowering the LEVEL causes the flat waveform envelope. This JPG http://www.adrive.com/public/vUMdSd.html (http://www.adrive.com/public/vUMdSd.html) shows that happening after the second song (at 16:00), when I lowered LEVEL from 70 to 64 without changing the GAIN setting.
Nonetheless, with GAIN setting less than HIGH, the LEVEL setting will probably need to be higher than 70, so perhaps in tonight's recording I won't see the effect shown in the JPG.
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I would like to hear some thoughts on the 4 channel mix mode. I never mixed a recording myself in any software. I would probably do more harm than good. Setup with cards and omni's. Also in this scenario would you put cards in the front and omni's in the back or would you setup omni/card/omni/card or omni's in the front and cards in the back ??? Your thoughts on the mix mode and the mic configuration please. I can also go with 4 omni's if that is the recommendation ???
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bartolac, you're on the right path. The image you linked to looks like classic brickwall clipping to me. Start with mic gain set to low and you should be fine.
Driggles1, there are inumerable ways to use four channels. I always record two seperate stereo files for more control. Simply adjusting the level between files when mixing them afterwards isn't difficult and is a good way to learn what's going on to decide if what you're doing is worthwhile and make good decisions on what to do differently. Mixing them in the deck to a single file is far trickier to get right. It eliminates the need to mix later but is really a more advanced technique to master correctly.
As one general approach, I'd suggest starting by running two simultaneous but seperate stereo setups to allow good comparison between them, before messing with mixing things together. You can learn a lot that way and also 'hedge your bet' on what setup will work best for the situation. Then if you want to mess around with mixing them you can, and the results of trying those things can influence your ideas about modifing one or both setups to better complement the mix.
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I would like to hear some thoughts on the 4 channel mix mode. I never mixed a recording myself in any software. I would probably do more harm than good. Setup with cards and omni's. Also in this scenario would you put cards in the front and omni's in the back or would you setup omni/card/omni/card or omni's in the front and cards in the back ??? Your thoughts on the mix mode and the mic configuration please. I can also go with 4 omni's if that is the recommendation ???
You could start off with your cards XY, omnis split AB. When you post-mix, you can hear what each pair contibutes to the whole..
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You could start off with your cards XY, omnis split AB. When you post-mix, you can hear what each pair contibutes to the whole..
Or a near-spaced setup with the cardioids which has a better chance of actually sounding good on it's own. :o [ducks]..must be Friday.
'hook's idea is spot on though. I just don't care much for cards in X/Y alone, but in combination with spaced omnis they can be a very good choice for a number of reasons.
A few less commonly used setups I find useful and have been meaning to encourage others to explore are three spaced omnis (third one in the middle, mixed to both channels at an appropriate level.. leave the 4th channel unused or use it for a mono SBD patch), and for instrumental acts- four omnis evenly spaced across the front of the stage.
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Gutbucket for dual mode recording do you have to be plugged into to the line and mic in to adjust the levels on each separately?? I think I'm going to run the DR-2D tomorrow, but haven't had time to figure out how to run it in dual mode. I'm sure it is in the thread, but would you mind giving me a list of steps to starting dual mode recording?? I planning on running Aud into the line in and SBD mic in. You have been really helpful. Thanks in advance.
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And in a stealth situation would you recommend 2 card 2 omni 4 channel (2 files) or 4 omni's with 1 or 2 separate files created ? or if I run 4 omni's shouldn't be an issue with creating 1 mix file with the deck, or am I wasting my time thinking about that and should stick with 2 cards 2 omni 2 file setup ? If yes, than I guess that will be another topic when it comes to trying to mix it for the first time. I will be running a 2nd rig with my M10 so i'm not worried about experimenting on the 4 channel as I should have a fine 2 channel recording nevertheless (hopefully).
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Gutbucket for dual mode recording do you have to be plugged into to the line and mic in to adjust the levels on each separately?? I think I'm going to run the DR-2D tomorrow, but haven't had time to figure out how to run it in dual mode. I'm sure it is in the thread, but would you mind giving me a list of steps to starting dual mode recording?? I planning on running Aud into the line in and SBD mic in. You have been really helpful. Thanks in advance.
You can't set the line levels while recording, only the mic levels. You can toggle between monitoring the levels on the mic and line inputs, but the line input level must be set before recording.
From memory: press and hold the "Dual" button to bring up the dual recording menu. You will have the option of something like dual, mix, and line (I'm probably garbling that horribly). The dual function (if that is what it is called) allows you to record the mic input on one 2ch set, and then lets you record the 2nd 2ch set of channels at 6db to 12db lower than the mic input. So when you select this option, you need to choose a range of 6db to 12db for the lower recorded channels.
Anyway, you want to set the Dual option to "line". That will change the lower menu option to then dial in the level for the line signal from 0 to 100. Given the possibilities with overload already discussed, I'd just set that to 100.
Then when recording, you can set the levels on the mic input (or set them once and use your external preamp to set levels, if you use an external preamp). Line levels can be monitored like I said, but you'll need to raise or lower them if needed using the external source (soundboard or external mic preamp).
Edit: You can toggle between which input, line or mics, is monitored on the DR2d's levels by pressing the "Dual" button (press once, don't press and hold).
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From what I understand you can control the levels at line in via the preamp. Have your input as mic in (plug in power off) as long as you have a BB or pre, if not plug in power on, Dual mode set to Line, and levels set to 95, press record twice and set the unit level to 67. That's what I gather from reading all the pages in this thread.
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Thanks Todd you saved me a bunch of fumbling!! I was having trouble finding the dual menu.
Gutbucket for dual mode recording do you have to be plugged into to the line and mic in to adjust the levels on each separately?? I think I'm going to run the DR-2D tomorrow, but haven't had time to figure out how to run it in dual mode. I'm sure it is in the thread, but would you mind giving me a list of steps to starting dual mode recording?? I planning on running Aud into the line in and SBD mic in. You have been really helpful. Thanks in advance.
You can't set the line levels while recording, only the mic levels. You can toggle between monitoring the levels on the mic and line inputs, but the line input level must be set before recording.
From memory: press and hold the "Dual" button to bring up the dual recording menu. You will have the option of something like dual, mix, and line (I'm probably garbling that horribly). The dual function (if that is what it is called) allows you to record the mic input on one 2ch set, and then lets you record the 2nd 2ch set of channels at 6db to 12db lower than the mic input. So when you select this option, you need to choose a range of 6db to 12db for the lower recorded channels.
Anyway, you want to set the Dual option to "line". That will change the lower menu option to then dial in the level for the line signal from 0 to 100. Given the possibilities with overload already discussed, I'd just set that to 100.
Then when recording, you can set the levels on the mic input (or set them once and use your external preamp to set levels, if you use an external preamp). Line levels can be monitored like I said, but you'll need to raise or lower them if needed using the external source (soundboard or external mic preamp).
Edit: You can toggle between which input, line or mics, is monitored on the DR2d's levels by pressing the "Dual" button (press once, don't press and hold).
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Do I turn off the PIP in the main menu??
From what I understand you can control the levels at line in via the preamp. Have your input as mic in (plug in power off) as long as you have a BB or pre, if not plug in power on, Dual mode set to Line, and levels set to 95, press record twice and set the unit level to 67. That's what I gather from reading all the pages in this thread.
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You turn off PIP in the main menu correct?? Thanks
From what I understand you can control the levels at line in via the preamp. Have your input as mic in (plug in power off) as long as you have a BB or pre, if not plug in power on, Dual mode set to Line, and levels set to 95, press record twice and set the unit level to 67. That's what I gather from reading all the pages in this thread.
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jmbell: Yes In the INPUT menu is where you turn off Plug In Power.
Just jumping in here… I have run a soundboard patch (rca>1/8”) into the line input and my mics (fed through my mixer) into the mic input. As stated, hold the dual button until the screen comes up, select MODE, toggle to LINE; enter. Then select LEVEL, and (on the few occasions I have had a patch) I set the level at 100. I normally set the mic input level (on the left side) to 68, and then make any further adjustments on the mixer. Every time I have had to amplify the line (sbd) file a lot in post, so there is more I’d like to learn about that. I have some catching up to do in the DR-2d threads.
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You turn off PIP in the main menu correct?? Thanks
From what I understand you can control the levels at line in via the preamp. Have your input as mic in (plug in power off) as long as you have a BB or pre, if not plug in power on, Dual mode set to Line, and levels set to 95, press record twice and set the unit level to 67. That's what I gather from reading all the pages in this thread.
Yes. Power up device, press menu, select input settings, select power, change on/off.
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Success! Check out the results of last night's performance http://www.adrive.com/public/RAm6Vt.html (http://www.adrive.com/public/RAm6Vt.html). My guess for the first song was still too high (GAIN=MID, LEVEL=85), and the PEAK light was on almost continuously :-) but after that I set GAIN=LOW and LEVEL=85, then 80, and got the expected results.
This also shows me that the variability in the waveform envelope I'd seen in the first two songs from last month's performance http://www.adrive.com/public/vUMdSd.html (http://www.adrive.com/public/vUMdSd.html) was not the "natural" song variability I was seeking, but rather, the brickwalled output occasionally going beyond (with LEVEL=74, then 70) what later in the show (LEVEL=64) is a flat waveform envelope. I realize now that whole show from last month was brickwalling, whereas I thought the first two songs were not.
Thanks for your help.
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Success! Check out the results of last night's performance http://www.adrive.com/public/RAm6Vt.html (http://www.adrive.com/public/RAm6Vt.html). My guess for the first song was still too high (GAIN=MID, LEVEL=85), and the PEAK light was on almost continuously :-) but after that I set GAIN=LOW and LEVEL=85, then 80, and got the expected results.
This also shows me that the variability in the waveform envelope I'd seen in the first two songs from last month's performance http://www.adrive.com/public/vUMdSd.html (http://www.adrive.com/public/vUMdSd.html) was not the "natural" song variability I was seeking, but rather, the brickwalled output occasionally going beyond (with LEVEL=74, then 70) what later in the show (LEVEL=64) is a flat waveform envelope. I realize now that whole show from last month was brickwalling, whereas I thought the first two songs were not.
Thanks for your help.
nice to know. i've recorded 2 shows with mine so far. one was going line in with my open taping mics going through a beyerdynamic mv-100 pre-amp and that turned out fine. but, then i stealthed a show last week with my csb's going mic-in and had the brickwalling issue on mid gain at 60% even though my levels looked fine on the screen.
but, can someone explain to me how brickwalling happens at lower levels?
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can someone explain to me how brickwalling happens at lower levels
By "lower levels" I assume you mean lower recording levels, not lower sound levels (e.g., a quiet show).
From my new-found understanding, the menu's GAIN setting controls a first stage, and the rocker-switch LEVEL setting controls a second stage. So for a typical loud show you may find yourself setting GAIN=HIGH, and then reducing the LEVEL setting to prevent the PEAK light from blinking. But what's going on is you're overloading the first stage (controlled by the menu's GAIN setting), invoking its limiter feature to "brickwall" the first-stage output. Once that's happening, you are misled into thinking you got a good combination of settings. It seems that the first-stage limiter produces an output level that then requires a LEVEL setting at ~70 to avoid the PEAK light from coming on. So the guideline is to not use a LEVEL setting below ~70, if instead you can reduce the GAIN setting, because if you find a LEVEL less than ~70 is necessary (with GAIN higher than LOW), it might mean that you're overloading the input stage, and your recording will be brickwalled.
My take-home (using the internal mics - YMMV) is to start with GAIN=LOW, and LEVEL at a high setting (I started with 85 last night), and after the first song (or during the sound check), back down on the LEVEL as necessary. If you're stealthing, and can't get to the unit to reduce the LEVEL after the first song, set DUAL at -12dB and hope for the best, expecting to use that lower-gain recording for production if you guessed too high on the LEVEL setting. (At least, if you record 24bit/96kHz, and intend to publish 16bit/44.1kHz, you have numerical room to change the gain in post on the resulting DUAL recording without too much loss of fidelity.)
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Is anyone using 32gb cards with their DR-2d's? I'm thinking about getting one. Any recomendations or known good cards?
Thanks in advance.
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Is anyone using 32gb cards with their DR-2d's? I'm thinking about getting one. Any recomendations or known good cards?
Thanks in advance.
http://tascam.com/product/dr-2d/downloads/ (http://tascam.com/product/dr-2d/downloads/)
Check out the tested media list. It should be a nice spot to start.
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Is anyone using 32gb cards with their DR-2d's? I'm thinking about getting one. Any recomendations or known good cards?
Thanks in advance.
This has been covered several times previoudsly. I use Transcend class 10 and Kingston class 4 or 6 cards of 32GB capacity.
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I'm using an A-Data card for my DR2D, which is a 16gb SDHC Card ;)
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Sorry, should have searched first.
I didn't think Tascam would ever update their tested media list. Guess I underestimated them.
Anyway, thanks!
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First outing with this recorder on Sunday and everything went fairly well. 4022>vms5u(gain @30db)>xlr to mini>DR2d (line in @ 95). I was very close to the PA system and but no overload issues at all. More trials to come.
Todd
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Did my first 4 track matrix with my DR-2d last month. Will be up on archive soon. Here's a video from the gig using my audio. The mix was done by Greg Williamson at The Kill Room studio in Seattle.
Mics were KAM m3 sdc x/y cardioid caps, I used two channels of the MixWiz console for phantom and preamps, with the other two channels for L/R from the board.
http://vimeo.com/38416450 (http://vimeo.com/38416450)
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Great sound!
Onstage mics plus board is the way to at small rock shows like that.
Also, nice shot of your mics at ~4:27.
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I had the advantage of being asked by the event organizers to record, and my buddy was running FOH that night. The mics were his KAM m3 drum overheads. My Avantone CK-1 mics were a mile away recording another gig that night.
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Perhaps a question for a separate thread, but has anyone run a 4ch recording with 2 different sets of mics, then mixed the LF frequencies from one pair of mics and the HF from the other pair? Kind of thinking how a crossover in a loudspeaker works, using the better-sounding mics for each part of the audio spectrum.
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Perhaps a question for a separate thread, but has anyone run a 4ch recording with 2 different sets of mics, then mixed the LF frequencies from one pair of mics and the HF from the other pair? Kind of thinking how a crossover in a loudspeaker works, using the better-sounding mics for each part of the audio spectrum.
I've done something to this effect. I've owned a DR-2D for about a year now and love it. I ran my DPA 4061's split ~30" and AKG CK93's DINa for Phish last summer and mixed the sources with pretty good results (not quite what your talking about I think). The DPA's were good for the low end and "opening" up the recording, while the hypers were helpful in reducing audience chatter and overall clarity of the recording. It's definitely worth trying out some different mic combos, I think there's potential for some great sounding tapes.
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Perhaps a question for a separate thread, but has anyone run a 4ch recording with 2 different sets of mics, then mixed the LF frequencies from one pair of mics and the HF from the other pair? Kind of thinking how a crossover in a loudspeaker works, using the better-sounding mics for each part of the audio spectrum.
I've made a number of recordings with that possibility in mind, but have never gotten around to messing with the filtering.
But that's what WifiJeff does with his miniature DPA supercards + omnis. The response of the supercards rolls of their bottom end and I think he low passes the omnis. He places each supercard and omni in close proximity of each other to eliminate time arrival differences between the two corresponding mics of each side.
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Hmmm, anyone use microSD cards in SD adapters in the DR-2D? I have 32GB of microSD memory for my M10 that I would like to use if I were to switch recorders.
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Perhaps a question for a separate thread, but has anyone run a 4ch recording with 2 different sets of mics, then mixed the LF frequencies from one pair of mics and the HF from the other pair? Kind of thinking how a crossover in a loudspeaker works, using the better-sounding mics for each part of the audio spectrum.
I've done this once or twice. Really can't recall at this point what I thought of the results. I mixed cheaper omnis plus higher end cards (since I can't recall when I did this, I don't remember the mics used) for outdoor shows at Red Rocks.
Wanted the omnis (split) for the spaciousness and for the low end response, but knew the cards would have better mids and highs. I did HPF on the cards and LPF on the omnis and mixed them. Sorry, I can't remember any of the details on the crossover point I used, or how far down I lowered the "unwanted" frequencies.
Seems like it should work fine, with no worse phase issues than just mixing 4 mics straight up. I probably should try it more.
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Hmmm, anyone use microSD cards in SD adapters in the DR-2D? I have 32GB of microSD memory for my M10 that I would like to use if I were to switch recorders.
I don't see why it wouldn't work, just seems there can be room for error though compared to a single SDHC. However you will most likely have to format the card for the Tascam usage and same goes for going back to the M10.
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Anyone use their DR-2d with a Naiant preamp? I'm thinking of having Jon build me a Tinybox 2.0 with pads to compensate for the hot inputs of the DR-2d.
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Anyone use their DR-2d with a Naiant preamp? I'm thinking of having Jon build me a Tinybox 2.0 with pads to compensate for the hot inputs of the DR-2d.
Jmbell ran LB>DR-2d Saturday night.
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Anyone use their DR-2d with a Naiant preamp? I'm thinking of having Jon build me a Tinybox 2.0 with pads to compensate for the hot inputs of the DR-2d.
I've used my a few times with my Littlebox, and just ran it a couple nights ago with a borrowed tinybox v1.
It's worked fine -- nice combo. I've run external attenuator cables (pads) from the LB to the DR2d, and have run without, just with lower gain. I ran with the attenuators so I could boost up the gain of the LB more to get more saturation out of the output transformers, but the combo works fine without pads if you just keep the gain lower on the LB.
Similar with the TB. I ran the borrowed TB at medium gain (18db??) for Radiohead and got peaks of about -2dbFS on the DR2d with no distortion. They weren't super loud, but you could always run the TB at low gain.
Talk about it with Jon, but I wouldn't think you'd need pads on the TB. Just get custom gain settings that are lower than the standard -- maybe 6db - 12db - 24db
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I ran mine last Saturday MK4>KCY>Littlebox>DR-2d line in and SBD Mic in and didn't have a pad or attenuator cable on either input. The recording turn out great I did buy an Attenuator cable in case I get a hot SBD feed, but when running line in with the LB I keep my levels about 11:00. I would skip getting built in pads it will cost extra money and isn't needed. I'd get an attenuator cable and you'll be fine.
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Anyone use their DR-2d with a Naiant preamp? I'm thinking of having Jon build me a Tinybox 2.0 with pads to compensate for the hot inputs of the DR-2d.
I've used my a few times with my Littlebox, and just ran it a couple nights ago with a borrowed tinybox v1.
It's worked fine -- nice combo. I've run external attenuator cables (pads) from the LB to the DR2d, and have run without, just with lower gain. I ran with the attenuators so I could boost up the gain of the LB more to get more saturation out of the output transformers, but the combo works fine without pads if you just keep the gain lower on the LB.
Similar with the TB. I ran the borrowed TB at medium gain (18db??) for Radiohead and got peaks of about -2dbFS on the DR2d with no distortion. They weren't super loud, but you could always run the TB at low gain.
Talk about it with Jon, but I wouldn't think you'd need pads on the TB. Just get custom gain settings that are lower than the standard -- maybe 6db - 12db - 24db
I absolutely LOVE the saturation im getting when running my Custom LB>M10. That LB sounds really warm and gooey. Still havent ran mk41>custom LB, but want to really badly :)
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I used the DR-2d for the first time last night and fortunately had a warmup band to work with and was hoping for the best. Anyways I remember reading somewhere in this thread about the recorder stopping. Some speculated heating and others the SD card. I had the recorder resting on my leg face down while holding it in my hand so it wouldn't fall. I didn't apply any pressure, but the recorder shutoff 3 times in a 40 minute set and basically left me saying WTF. For the main attraction once i confirmed levels were correct on the dual recordings I locked the unit with the hold switch in the back. No issues over the 2 hours of recording. I did not lock the unit for the warmup band. I guess this is just a recommendation to anyone using one or thinking of buying one.
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Lock the hold and use the IR remote. Update your firmware to the latest if you have not yet.
Ran one as a SBD deck all last weekend and shifted it between a couple stages. With a big card and an Energizer external LIion battery all I needed to do was plug in and walk by with the remote occassionally between sets. Didn't think about power or cards all weekend.
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Lock the hold and use the IR remote. Update your firmware to the latest if you have not yet.
Ran one as a SBD deck all last weekend and shifted it between a couple stages. With a big card and an Energizer external LIion battery all I needed to do was plug in and walk by with the remote occassionally between sets. Didn't think about power or cards all weekend.
I didn't necessarily have an issue with power output, just that the device would shutdown prematurely without it being locked. Anyways a lesson learned and at least not on a critical recording. I will heed that advise for sure on always locking in case there is an issue with sensitivity to the button functions when not locked. ;D
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It shouldn't shut down easily without locking since doing so requires holding the 'stop' button for a while. I can't remember hearing reports of shutdown issues from other users so I don't think that's a known problem. The inital power appetite issues were solved with the firmware update, which was the root of my suggestion to check which firmware it is currently running. I'm not sure what else the update addressed (such as other bugs or possibly shutdown issues), but its always a good idea to run the latest update as a general rule.
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firmware is definitely up to date. it was the first thing I did when I received the DR-2d. The second thing I did was order Powerex and Imedion batteries. I'll have to do some home tests doing the same as i did @ the show. Hopefully I don't have a defective product.
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just bought one of these after four years using an edirol, excited to run some board/aud matrixes
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Just got mine, came pre-loaded with 1.03. Looks neat, looking forward to giving this a whirl in a few weeks.
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Right on, and welcome to the party!
We've filled 25 pages. Sunjan or Brian- can you lock this thread.
Just made a new thread to continue the discussion here. (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=154697.new#new)