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Author Topic: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM  (Read 100887 times)

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #315 on: February 28, 2012, 04:03:20 PM »
Killed power by popping out the batteries. Seems OK on re-power-up. Files wrote fine and transfered OK.  Hmmmmm.

Thats crazy man! I ran mine for DAYS in front of my TV and had ZERO problems. Hope thats what happens in the field too. I'm still running my 2 x M10's for each of my rigs in case something happens to my DR2D recording :)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline danny3

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #316 on: February 28, 2012, 05:35:51 PM »

"Killed power by popping out the batteries. Seems OK on re-power-up. Files wrote fine and transfered OK.  Hmmmmm."

I had this same experience early on after the deck hit the floor ( I am more aware of the headphone cable length now!) and was fretting all the way home. But all was well when I loaded the SD card into the computer.

Another more unfortunate experience prompts me to offer additional advice: whenever you remove the batteries (which seems to resolve some hangups) check/reset all your settings.

Edit to add: The first instance happened after the show. The second tragic one happened as the the second set was starting, and although the levels looked ok (as has been pointed out in this thread) they were not. I originally had the mic LEVEL set to LOW, but after re-power-up the unit must have changed to MED or HIGH (I didn't think to check later) and the DUAL function was not longer set (I originally had it set to -6dB which might have saved the recording.) 




« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 03:07:59 PM by danny3 »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #317 on: February 28, 2012, 05:36:59 PM »
I have hundreds of hours on two of these recorders and this was the first glitch.  I'll test it before I use it again, but I'm not overly concerned.  I was using a big 32GB card which had not be formated for a while with lots of other stuff on there, some files deleated to make enough space, so that may well have been the issue.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline danny3

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #318 on: February 28, 2012, 05:44:33 PM »
The first scare prompted me to buy a second unit also, and I am only a beginner, but I am very satisfied so far.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #319 on: February 28, 2012, 06:41:16 PM »
I have hundreds of hours on two of these recorders and this was the first glitch.  I'll test it before I use it again, but I'm not overly concerned.  I was using a big 32GB card which had not be formated for a while with lots of other stuff on there, some files deleated to make enough space, so that may well have been the issue.

Yeah, that sounds like the culprit!
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Online jbell

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #320 on: March 08, 2012, 07:01:24 PM »
What level is everyone running the line in at??  Is there a Unity setting??  Thanks
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 07:29:57 PM by jmbell »
Mics: DPA ST4011ER & 4018ER | Neumann kk 184 (matched)> Nbob/PFA
Preamps: DPA MMA 6000 | Audioroot Femto
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-10 II | Sony PCM A10

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|Record|  Runtime: 4:19.99  {|||] 75%

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #321 on: March 08, 2012, 07:19:56 PM »
95-100
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Online jbell

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #322 on: March 08, 2012, 07:31:24 PM »
Wow that high!!  I guess I'm use to the M10 set to 4 so 95 seems up there.  How about the Mic in??  Thanks for the help Gutbucket.

95-100
Mics: DPA ST4011ER & 4018ER | Neumann kk 184 (matched)> Nbob/PFA
Preamps: DPA MMA 6000 | Audioroot Femto
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-10 II | Sony PCM A10

-20        -12         -6        TDS   (32/48)     
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]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][} 
__________________________
|Record|  Runtime: 4:19.99  {|||] 75%

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #323 on: March 08, 2012, 09:07:39 PM »
Think of the line-in setting more as an attenuation from 100 down.  Brickwalling becomes possible at or below a low 90's setting.

A setting of ~67 on the mic-input (switched to the low-gain range) is equivalent to a line-in setting of 95 100.  Brickwalling becomes possible at or below the low 60's.

The DR2d cannot accept nearly as hot a signal as the M10, but when used within it's comfort range it sounds great.

Enjoy!

[edit, I think it's actually line-in 100 = mic-in 67]
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 10:00:16 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Online jbell

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #324 on: March 08, 2012, 09:32:04 PM »
Thanks man!!  I love the M10 the Dr 2d will be my Aud+SDB recorder/backup recorder.  I appreciate your help.

Think of the line-in setting more as an attenuation from 100 down.  Brickwalling becomes possible at or below a low 90's setting.

A setting of ~67 on the mic-input (switched to the low-gain range) is equivalent to a line-in setting of 95.  Brickwalling becomes possible at or below the low 60's.

The DR2d cannot accept nearly as hot a signal as the M10, but when used within it's comfort range it sounds great.

Enjoy!
Mics: DPA ST4011ER & 4018ER | Neumann kk 184 (matched)> Nbob/PFA
Preamps: DPA MMA 6000 | Audioroot Femto
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-10 II | Sony PCM A10

-20        -12         -6        TDS   (32/48)     
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][}   
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][} 
__________________________
|Record|  Runtime: 4:19.99  {|||] 75%

Offline jb63

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #325 on: March 08, 2012, 10:42:55 PM »
Think of the line-in setting more as an attenuation from 100 down.  Brickwalling becomes possible at or below a low 90's setting.

A setting of ~67 on the mic-input (switched to the low-gain range) is equivalent to a line-in setting of 95.  Brickwalling becomes possible at or below the low 60's.

The DR2d cannot accept nearly as hot a signal as the M10, but when used within it's comfort range it sounds great.

Enjoy!

OK, after reading all the pages I could on this, I just have try one of these.
I still think the R44 is going to be too big for me, but I'm not completely against it, just that 4 channels in your pocket!

Thanks for all the research & development!

once again, lost in all the noise

Offline bartolac

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #326 on: March 09, 2012, 01:53:53 AM »
Wondering about "brickwalling" on DR-2d for LEVEL settings below ~70 (when using internal mics). Comments here sound like it's a known/expected/useful feature, but I thought setting the LEVEL between 0 and 100 should just scale the recording between 0% and 100% (unless doing so causes overloading or falling into the noise). My experience is when I reduce the LEVEL below ~70, the waveform envelope for the rest of the recording is flattened (I assume this is "brickwalling"), not showing the natural variation that was seen earlier in the recording, when the LEVEL was above ~70. What am I missing? How should I think of this as a good thing?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 10:14:18 AM by bartolac »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #327 on: March 09, 2012, 09:57:28 AM »
All mentions I've made to brickwalling on the DR2d refer to signal sent to the mic-input and line-input jacks.  Brickwalling refers to the analog input stage overloading before the ADC does.  Since the metering is done at the ADC, the meters and clip light on the recorder will not indicate that overload.  That means a hot signal can overload the input and cause distortion, even though the level shown on the meters and clipping light indicator indicate what would appear to be good levels- if the signal level is increased further, distortion will increase, but the meter peak level will not.  The average level indicated on the meter will increase however, and you may notice the meters behaving differently by 'bouncing' or moving less than would be expected.  That behavior is a good hint that brickwalling may be occurring, but isn't obvious.

It is possible to use settings below a line input setting of ~93 or a mic input (low gain) setting of ~60 without overload, but only if your set it so that your recorded level peaks lower than full scale.    The lower you set the input gain (to accommodate a hotter signal), the lower the point at which overload will occur below full scale- the point at which you won't be able to tell when the brickwall distortion begins by looking at the meters or clip lights.  There is no benefit at all from using a lower input level and trying to avoid that 'invisible' overload point.   You'll only use less of the effective dynamic range which the recorder is capable of, it will still overload at the same point, and the meters will lie to you.


The short version is this- If the meters are peaking with an mic-input level of ~64 or a line-input level of ~95, then turning it down on the recorder won't help, even though it looks like it does from simply looking at he meters.  Instead you'll need to reduce the signal level before it reaches the recorder inputs.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #328 on: March 09, 2012, 10:09:08 AM »
Wondering about "brickwalling" on DR-2d for LEVEL settings below ~70 (when using internal mics). Comments here sound like it's a known/expected/useful feature, but I thought setting the LEVEL between 0 and 100 should just scale the recording between 0% and 100% (unless doing so causes overloading or falling into the noise). My experience is when I reduce the LEVEL below ~70, the waveform envelope for the rest of the recording is flattened (I assume this is "brickwalling"), not showing the natural variation that was seen in the recording before, when the LEVEL was above ~70. What am I missing? How should I think of this as a good thing?

I realized I didn't really address the part of your question I bolded above.

Ideally, level setting should work as you mention.  Brickwalling is a problem and not useful at all, but it's the expected behaviour or many inexpensive all-in-one recorders.   It is a form of overload where the analog input stage overloads before the digital conversion stage (ADC).  Why manufacturer's don't limit the gain range to prevent settings which cause it is what I'd like to know.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline bartolac

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Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #329 on: March 09, 2012, 10:39:16 AM »
Thank you for your informative replies, Gutbucket. I had suspected that there were two points where overloading could occur, but didn't suspect that the meters would only show the latter :-(

During sound checks, I had started with GAIN=HIGH and lowered LEVEL until it didn't peak. In tonight's recording (electric guitars in a coffee shop setting), I'll try the opposite - start with GAIN=LOW or MID and increase LEVEL for good meter indication (and hope for the best, since the meters are not completely reliable).

While that understanding explains some home tests I did, I'm not sure it explains my previous experience (same electric guitars in same coffee shop setting) that started my concern, where only lowering the LEVEL causes the flat waveform envelope. This JPG http://www.adrive.com/public/vUMdSd.html shows that happening after the second song (at 16:00), when I lowered LEVEL from 70 to 64 without changing the GAIN setting.

Nonetheless, with GAIN setting less than HIGH, the LEVEL setting will probably need to be higher than 70, so perhaps in tonight's recording I won't see the effect shown in the JPG.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 11:20:58 AM by bartolac »

 

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