Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM  (Read 100892 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Drgiggles1

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 157
  • Gender: Male
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #330 on: March 09, 2012, 10:51:30 AM »
I would like to hear some thoughts on the 4 channel mix mode. I never mixed a recording myself in any software. I would probably do more harm than good. Setup with cards and omni's. Also in this scenario would you put cards in the front and omni's in the back or would you setup omni/card/omni/card or omni's in the front and cards in the back ??? Your thoughts on the mix mode and the mic configuration please. I can also go with 4 omni's if that is the recommendation ???
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 10:55:45 AM by Drgiggles1 »
Mics: CA-14 (o,c,o)
Remote Power: CA-9100 pre-amp, CA-UBB battery box
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2d
Cable/s: custom 6" GAKables Mini Starquad
Batteries: Maha 9.6V Imedion, Maha Powerex 2700 mAh
Chargers: Maha MH-C9000, MAHA MH-C490F 9 Volt

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15750
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #331 on: March 09, 2012, 12:13:15 PM »
bartolac, you're on the right path.  The image you linked to looks like classic brickwall clipping to me.  Start with mic gain set to low and you should be fine.

Driggles1, there are inumerable ways to use four channels.  I always record two seperate stereo files for more control.  Simply adjusting the level between files when mixing them afterwards isn't difficult and is a good way to learn what's going on to decide if what you're doing is worthwhile and make good decisions on what to do differently.  Mixing them in the deck to a single file is far trickier to get right.  It eliminates the need to mix later but is really a more advanced technique to master correctly.

As one general approach, I'd suggest starting by running two simultaneous but seperate stereo setups to allow good comparison between them, before messing with mixing things together.  You can learn a lot that way and also 'hedge your bet' on what setup will work best for the situation.  Then if you want to mess around with mixing them you can, and the results of trying those things can influence your ideas about modifing one or both setups to better complement the mix.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline capnhook

  • All your llamas are belong to us....
  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (20)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 4857
  • All your llamas are belong to us....
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #332 on: March 09, 2012, 02:10:15 PM »
I would like to hear some thoughts on the 4 channel mix mode. I never mixed a recording myself in any software. I would probably do more harm than good. Setup with cards and omni's. Also in this scenario would you put cards in the front and omni's in the back or would you setup omni/card/omni/card or omni's in the front and cards in the back ??? Your thoughts on the mix mode and the mic configuration please. I can also go with 4 omni's if that is the recommendation ???

You could start off with your cards XY, omnis split AB.  When you post-mix, you can hear what each pair contibutes to the whole..
Proud member of the reality-based community

BSCS-L->JB-mod [NAK CM-300 (CP-3) and/or (CP-1)]->LSD2->CA CAFS-Omni->Sony ECM-907**Apogee MiniMe Rev. C->CA Ugly II->**Edirol OCM R-44->Tascam DR-22WL->Sony TCD-D8


"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
and being beautiful and making the world a beautiful place through your actions.
Every little bit is registered.  Every little bit.  So be as beautiful as you can as often as you can"

"It'll never be over, 'till we learn."
 
"My dream is to get a bus and get the band and just go coast to coast. Just about everything else except music, is anti-musical.  That's it.  Music's the thing." - Jeb Puryear

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15750
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #333 on: March 09, 2012, 04:14:25 PM »
You could start off with your cards XY, omnis split AB.  When you post-mix, you can hear what each pair contibutes to the whole..

Or a near-spaced setup with the cardioids which has a better chance of actually sounding good on it's own.  :o  [ducks]..must be Friday.
'hook's idea is spot on though.  I just don't care much for cards in X/Y alone, but in combination with spaced omnis they can be a very good choice for a number of reasons.

A few less commonly used setups I find useful and have been meaning to encourage others to explore are three spaced omnis (third one in the middle, mixed to both channels at an appropriate level.. leave the 4th channel unused or use it for a mono SBD patch), and for instrumental acts- four omnis evenly spaced across the front of the stage.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline jbell

  • TDS
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4572
  • Gender: Male
  • Spreadicated
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #334 on: March 09, 2012, 06:09:58 PM »
Gutbucket for dual mode recording do you have to be plugged into to the line and mic in to adjust the levels on each separately??  I think I'm going to run the DR-2D tomorrow, but haven't had time to figure out how to run it in dual mode.  I'm sure it is in the thread, but would you mind giving me a list of steps to starting dual mode recording??  I planning on running Aud into the line in and SBD mic in.  You have been really helpful.  Thanks in advance.
Mics: DPA ST4011ER & 4018ER | Neumann kk 184 (matched)> Nbob/PFA
Preamps: DPA MMA 6000 | Audioroot Femto
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-10 II | Sony PCM A10

-20        -12         -6        TDS   (32/48)     
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][}   
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][} 
__________________________
|Record|  Runtime: 4:19.99  {|||] 75%

Offline Drgiggles1

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 157
  • Gender: Male
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #335 on: March 09, 2012, 06:17:19 PM »
And in a stealth situation would you  recommend 2 card 2 omni 4 channel (2 files) or 4 omni's with 1 or 2 separate files created ? or if I run 4 omni's shouldn't be an issue with creating 1 mix file with the deck, or am I wasting my time thinking about that and should stick with 2 cards 2 omni 2 file setup ? If yes, than I guess that will be another topic when it comes to trying to mix it for the first time. I will be running a 2nd rig with my M10 so i'm not worried about experimenting on the 4 channel as I should have a fine 2 channel recording nevertheless (hopefully).
Mics: CA-14 (o,c,o)
Remote Power: CA-9100 pre-amp, CA-UBB battery box
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2d
Cable/s: custom 6" GAKables Mini Starquad
Batteries: Maha 9.6V Imedion, Maha Powerex 2700 mAh
Chargers: Maha MH-C9000, MAHA MH-C490F 9 Volt

Offline Todd R

  • Over/Under on next gear purchase: 2 months
  • Trade Count: (29)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4901
  • Gender: Male
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #336 on: March 09, 2012, 06:29:36 PM »
Gutbucket for dual mode recording do you have to be plugged into to the line and mic in to adjust the levels on each separately??  I think I'm going to run the DR-2D tomorrow, but haven't had time to figure out how to run it in dual mode.  I'm sure it is in the thread, but would you mind giving me a list of steps to starting dual mode recording??  I planning on running Aud into the line in and SBD mic in.  You have been really helpful.  Thanks in advance.

You can't set the line levels while recording, only the mic levels.  You can toggle between monitoring the levels on the mic and line inputs, but the line input level must be set before recording.

From memory:  press and hold the "Dual" button to bring up the dual recording menu.  You will have the option of something like dual, mix, and line (I'm probably garbling that horribly).  The dual function (if that is what it is called) allows you to record the mic input on one 2ch set, and then lets you record the 2nd 2ch set of channels at 6db to 12db lower than the mic input.  So when you select this option, you need to choose a range of 6db to 12db for the lower recorded channels.

Anyway, you want to set the Dual option to "line".  That will change the lower menu option to then dial in the level for the line signal from 0 to 100.  Given the possibilities with overload already discussed, I'd just set that to 100.

Then when recording, you can set the levels on the mic input (or set them once and use your external preamp to set levels, if you use an external preamp).  Line levels can be monitored like I said, but you'll need to raise or lower them if needed using the external source (soundboard or external mic preamp).

Edit:  You can toggle between which input, line or mics, is monitored on the DR2d's levels by pressing the "Dual" button (press once, don't press and hold).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 06:33:09 PM by Todd R »
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline Drgiggles1

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 157
  • Gender: Male
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #337 on: March 09, 2012, 06:55:39 PM »
From what I understand you can control the levels at line in via the preamp. Have your input as mic in (plug in power off) as long as you have a BB or pre, if not plug in power on, Dual mode set to  Line, and levels set to 95, press record twice and set the unit level to 67. That's what I gather from reading all the pages in this thread.
Mics: CA-14 (o,c,o)
Remote Power: CA-9100 pre-amp, CA-UBB battery box
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2d
Cable/s: custom 6" GAKables Mini Starquad
Batteries: Maha 9.6V Imedion, Maha Powerex 2700 mAh
Chargers: Maha MH-C9000, MAHA MH-C490F 9 Volt

Offline jbell

  • TDS
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4572
  • Gender: Male
  • Spreadicated
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #338 on: March 09, 2012, 06:58:12 PM »
Thanks Todd you saved me a bunch of fumbling!!  I was having trouble finding the dual menu.

Gutbucket for dual mode recording do you have to be plugged into to the line and mic in to adjust the levels on each separately??  I think I'm going to run the DR-2D tomorrow, but haven't had time to figure out how to run it in dual mode.  I'm sure it is in the thread, but would you mind giving me a list of steps to starting dual mode recording??  I planning on running Aud into the line in and SBD mic in.  You have been really helpful.  Thanks in advance.

You can't set the line levels while recording, only the mic levels.  You can toggle between monitoring the levels on the mic and line inputs, but the line input level must be set before recording.

From memory:  press and hold the "Dual" button to bring up the dual recording menu.  You will have the option of something like dual, mix, and line (I'm probably garbling that horribly).  The dual function (if that is what it is called) allows you to record the mic input on one 2ch set, and then lets you record the 2nd 2ch set of channels at 6db to 12db lower than the mic input.  So when you select this option, you need to choose a range of 6db to 12db for the lower recorded channels.

Anyway, you want to set the Dual option to "line".  That will change the lower menu option to then dial in the level for the line signal from 0 to 100.  Given the possibilities with overload already discussed, I'd just set that to 100.

Then when recording, you can set the levels on the mic input (or set them once and use your external preamp to set levels, if you use an external preamp).  Line levels can be monitored like I said, but you'll need to raise or lower them if needed using the external source (soundboard or external mic preamp).

Edit:  You can toggle between which input, line or mics, is monitored on the DR2d's levels by pressing the "Dual" button (press once, don't press and hold).
Mics: DPA ST4011ER & 4018ER | Neumann kk 184 (matched)> Nbob/PFA
Preamps: DPA MMA 6000 | Audioroot Femto
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-10 II | Sony PCM A10

-20        -12         -6        TDS   (32/48)     
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][}   
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][} 
__________________________
|Record|  Runtime: 4:19.99  {|||] 75%

Offline jbell

  • TDS
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4572
  • Gender: Male
  • Spreadicated
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #339 on: March 09, 2012, 07:00:37 PM »
Do I turn off the PIP in the main menu??

From what I understand you can control the levels at line in via the preamp. Have your input as mic in (plug in power off) as long as you have a BB or pre, if not plug in power on, Dual mode set to  Line, and levels set to 95, press record twice and set the unit level to 67. That's what I gather from reading all the pages in this thread.
Mics: DPA ST4011ER & 4018ER | Neumann kk 184 (matched)> Nbob/PFA
Preamps: DPA MMA 6000 | Audioroot Femto
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-10 II | Sony PCM A10

-20        -12         -6        TDS   (32/48)     
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][}   
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][} 
__________________________
|Record|  Runtime: 4:19.99  {|||] 75%

Offline jbell

  • TDS
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4572
  • Gender: Male
  • Spreadicated
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #340 on: March 09, 2012, 07:13:11 PM »
You turn off PIP in the main menu correct?? Thanks

From what I understand you can control the levels at line in via the preamp. Have your input as mic in (plug in power off) as long as you have a BB or pre, if not plug in power on, Dual mode set to  Line, and levels set to 95, press record twice and set the unit level to 67. That's what I gather from reading all the pages in this thread.
Mics: DPA ST4011ER & 4018ER | Neumann kk 184 (matched)> Nbob/PFA
Preamps: DPA MMA 6000 | Audioroot Femto
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-10 II | Sony PCM A10

-20        -12         -6        TDS   (32/48)     
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][}   
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][} 
__________________________
|Record|  Runtime: 4:19.99  {|||] 75%

Offline danny3

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 223
  • Gender: Male
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #341 on: March 09, 2012, 07:18:32 PM »
jmbell: Yes In the INPUT menu is where you turn off Plug In Power.
Just jumping in here… I have run a soundboard patch (rca>1/8”) into the line input and my mics (fed through my mixer) into the mic input. As stated, hold the dual button until the screen comes up, select MODE, toggle to LINE; enter. Then select LEVEL, and (on the few occasions I have had a patch) I set the level at 100. I normally set the mic input level (on the left side) to 68, and then make any further adjustments on the mixer.  Every time I have had to amplify the line (sbd) file a lot in post, so there is more I’d like to learn about that. I have some catching up to do in the DR-2d threads.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 04:58:58 PM by danny3 »

Offline Drgiggles1

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 157
  • Gender: Male
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #342 on: March 09, 2012, 10:04:54 PM »
You turn off PIP in the main menu correct?? Thanks

From what I understand you can control the levels at line in via the preamp. Have your input as mic in (plug in power off) as long as you have a BB or pre, if not plug in power on, Dual mode set to  Line, and levels set to 95, press record twice and set the unit level to 67. That's what I gather from reading all the pages in this thread.
Yes. Power up device, press menu, select input settings, select power, change on/off.
Mics: CA-14 (o,c,o)
Remote Power: CA-9100 pre-amp, CA-UBB battery box
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2d
Cable/s: custom 6" GAKables Mini Starquad
Batteries: Maha 9.6V Imedion, Maha Powerex 2700 mAh
Chargers: Maha MH-C9000, MAHA MH-C490F 9 Volt

Offline bartolac

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #343 on: March 10, 2012, 11:30:54 AM »
Success! Check out the results of last night's performance http://www.adrive.com/public/RAm6Vt.html. My guess for the first song was still too high (GAIN=MID, LEVEL=85), and the PEAK light was on almost continuously :-) but after that I set GAIN=LOW and LEVEL=85, then 80, and got the expected results.

This also shows me that the variability in the waveform envelope I'd seen in the first two songs from last month's performance  http://www.adrive.com/public/vUMdSd.html was not the "natural" song variability I was seeking, but rather, the brickwalled output occasionally going beyond (with LEVEL=74, then 70) what later in the show (LEVEL=64) is a flat waveform envelope. I realize now that whole show from last month was brickwalling, whereas I thought the first two songs were not.

Thanks for your help.

Offline Ghostwheel

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Gender: Male
Re: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM
« Reply #344 on: March 10, 2012, 12:19:21 PM »
Success! Check out the results of last night's performance http://www.adrive.com/public/RAm6Vt.html. My guess for the first song was still too high (GAIN=MID, LEVEL=85), and the PEAK light was on almost continuously :-) but after that I set GAIN=LOW and LEVEL=85, then 80, and got the expected results.

This also shows me that the variability in the waveform envelope I'd seen in the first two songs from last month's performance  http://www.adrive.com/public/vUMdSd.html was not the "natural" song variability I was seeking, but rather, the brickwalled output occasionally going beyond (with LEVEL=74, then 70) what later in the show (LEVEL=64) is a flat waveform envelope. I realize now that whole show from last month was brickwalling, whereas I thought the first two songs were not.

Thanks for your help.


nice to know. i've recorded 2 shows with mine so far. one was going line in with my open taping mics going through a beyerdynamic mv-100 pre-amp and that turned out fine. but, then i stealthed a show last week with my csb's going mic-in and had the brickwalling issue on mid gain at 60% even though my levels looked fine on the screen.

but, can someone explain to me how brickwalling happens at lower levels?
Audio: Core Sound Binaurals>BatBoxW/Filter On>Tascam-DR2D(stealth rig) - M-Audio Pulsar 2's>Fostex FR2LE(open rig), Video: CanonHV30

http://db.etree.org/ghostwheelproductions
http://www.youtube.com/user/GhostwheelProduction
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChZVwkJhVmOIL4jABXK0cDg(temporary channel until my 15 minute plus video ban ends on my main channel in 2017)

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.072 seconds with 41 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF