Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Post-Processing, Computer / Streaming / Internet Devices & Related Activity => Topic started by: aaronji on December 19, 2007, 07:56:58 AM
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A little background: I had contemplated getting into taping for some time, but never seemed to have the time/money. Then, about two months ago, I decided to take the plunge, in time for a Rush show in Rotterdam. Needing to move quickly, and with limited budget, I got a Zoom H2, with the idea that I could use the internals. Since then (and greatly aided by this board), I decided I would need some fancier stuff, and, to that end, have gotten a Marantz PMD620 and my Church cards/omnis/9100 pre-amp should be here any day...
At any rate, I have recorded four shows with the Zoom and it's internal mics: Rush, Brad Mehldau Trio (Budapest), Joshua Redman Trio (Budapest) and Great Lake Swimmers (Amsterdam). The Rush show came out OK (pretty boomy) and the Great Lake Swimmers is a disaster (really noisy/pushy crowd), but the two jazz shows are pretty decent. Both were aided by nice venues, good seats, and tame crowds.
But I am at a loss as to how to do the post on them. I have searched the forums here, and most of the stuff I have seen addresses problems more akin to the Rush and Great Lake Swimmers shows. The Mehldau and Redman shows are a bit lacking in the lower registers and sound a bit hollow throughout; the Redman show also has the occasional sax 'squonk'. One potential source of the problem is that my levels were too low. I have read here that can particularly impact the low end. I was hoping someone might have some advice on how to improve them? Here is a sample from the Redman show (sorry about the MP3, but attachment size is limited)...
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
EDIT TO ADD: Also, the snare can be a bit overpowering. And sorry about the lengthy post!
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Low levels can be fixed by "normalizing" which raises the levels to a pre-set dB amount. I like to be at ~95 - 98% of clipping level (0 db). 95 is safer. This will solve the low level problem. Audio editors will also allow raising the lower registers (bass boost). Remember that "less is more" when doing this. You will not be able to make them perfect. They will always sound like they were made live from a less that optimal spot because they were. And that is part of the charm. Welcome aboard. Practice won't make you perfect but you will get a lot better.
Cheers 8)
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Low levels can be fixed by "normalizing" which raises the levels to a pre-set dB amount. I like to be at ~95 - 98% of clipping level (0 db). 95 is safer. This will solve the low level problem. Audio editors will also allow raising the lower registers (bass boost). Remember that "less is more" when doing this. You will not be able to make them perfect. They will always sound like they were made live from a less that optimal spot because they were. And that is part of the charm. Welcome aboard. Practice won't make you perfect but you will get a lot better.
Cheers 8)
A +T for your input!
And here is a follow-up question: in this recording, the applause sometimes reaches a substantially higher level than the music. From what I have read, I have a few options for dealing with this (compression, limiting, using an envelope). Does it matter if I just compress (or limit) the heck out of the applause while taking care not to compress (or limit) the music itself? Will this result in a funny sounding transition from music to applause and back?
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And here is a follow-up question: in this recording, the applause sometimes reaches a substantially higher level than the music. From what I have read, I have a few options for dealing with this (compression, limiting, using an envelope). Does it matter if I just compress (or limit) the heck out of the applause while taking care not to compress (or limit) the music itself? Will this result in a funny sounding transition from music to applause and back?
You could probably copy the file to another set of tracks, compress the heck out of the second version, and then cross fade between the two versions to create a file with smooth transitions. Unfortunately, I almost never use fades so I don't know how to tell you to do this.
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Does it matter if I just compress (or limit) the heck out of the applause while taking care not to compress (or limit) the music itself? Will this result in a funny sounding transition from music to applause and back?
I would think it may be very difficult to make the transitions smooth. Rather than try to adjust each applause break, I would use a limiter. Set it so that the applause is brought down to just above the music's highest peak. So the applause will be slightly higher than the music, but you were in the audience after all. And you won't lose any dynamic range within the music itself.
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I find the envelope exactly what to use. I made 2 preset envelopes, one goes from 100% to 20% then back to 100%, the other goes 100-80-100. Some applause wavs are not symmetrical, there is more and louder at the first part, so I am actually thinking of making one that goes 100-20-50-100 and try it. Cool Edit Pro does this and saves your original, your modified file and your envelopes. Make sure you spline your curves, as there will otherwise be an abrupt change in the volume.
I just recorded a classical quartet, did this and it sounds great. The wav files at the applause look "unnatural" but it sounds really nice, the applause is almost at, but not quite at the level of the loudest music.
good luck
ildu
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Thanks for all the advice. Pretty funny, I started this thread a while ago and there was no action on it for a long time. Heck, since then I have gotten all new gear (CA STC-11 (cardioids and omnis), ST-9100 and PMD620). Sort of keeping myself occupied with the new gear and the recordings that I have made with it. But I really liked the performance that inspired the original post and pulled it out of the depths of my hard drive on Sunday night to give it another look. Made a pretty workable version using a limiter. I think I will give the envelope idea a try too.
+T's all around for the help!