Author Topic: Making a balanced mic unbalanced will hurt sound quality? (Read 5745 times)

fuck you · « **on:** February 22, 2004, 11:26:58 AM »

If I took a mic pro mic like Audio Technica that is balanced, uses XLR plugs, and wired it so I can use 1/4 plugs is there an expected loss in sound quality?

Darrren

leegeddy · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2004, 11:37:21 AM »

Quote from: darren01 on February 22, 2004, 11:26:58 AM

If I took a mic pro mic like Audio Technica that is balanced, uses XLR plugs, and wired it so I can use 1/4 plugs is there an expected loss in sound quality?

Darrren

yes. you'll not obtain the full potential of the mic.

marc

jpschust · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2004, 11:37:45 AM »

not if you do it correctly... balanced > unbalanced is pretty darn common, but its gotta be soldered correctly. if the work is clean you shouldnt have any impact on the sound.

leegeddy · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2004, 11:50:04 AM »

Quote from: jpschust on February 22, 2004, 11:37:45 AM

not if you do it correctly... balanced > unbalanced is pretty darn common, but its gotta be soldered correctly. if the work is clean you shouldnt have any impact on the sound.

perhaps i'm missing the point of the original question. unbalancing a condensor mic is basically grounding the (-) output of a balanced mic. you're going to loose dynamic range if you do that. i would think that's a loss in sound quality.

marc

Jason B · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2004, 11:51:23 AM »

Quote from: leegeddy on February 22, 2004, 11:37:21 AM

yes. you'll not obtain the full potential of the mic.

marc

Sorry, but this makes no sense. Unbalancing a microphone cable may introduce interferance in the signal. It has nothing to do with the potential of the mic.

-JB

leegeddy · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2004, 11:52:54 AM »

Quote from: Jason B on February 22, 2004, 11:51:23 AM

Quote from: leegeddy on February 22, 2004, 11:37:21 AM
yes. you'll not obtain the full potential of the mic.

marc

Sorry, but this makes no sense. Unbalancing a microphone cable may introduce interferance in the signal. It has nothing to do with the potential of the mic.

-JB

jb, see my reply above.

marc

jpschust · « **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2004, 12:14:10 PM »

Quote from: Jason B on February 22, 2004, 11:51:23 AM

Quote from: leegeddy on February 22, 2004, 11:37:21 AM
yes. you'll not obtain the full potential of the mic.

marc

Sorry, but this makes no sense. Unbalancing a microphone cable may introduce interferance in the signal. It has nothing to do with the potential of the mic.

-JB

exactly what i was thinking, you expressed it better.

leegeddy · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2004, 12:22:35 PM »

http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/profiles/AT853a.html

guys; feel free to look at the difference in specs for "battery power" vs. "phantom power".

marc

jpschust · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2004, 12:34:54 PM »

yah but that's not the question here- you can run phantom through a 1/4" jack if you really want to (it caries power just the same as an xlr connector)...the question was about loss in sound quality

leegeddy · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2004, 12:40:57 PM »

>> you can run phantom through a 1/4" jack if you really want to

through an UNBALANCED 1/4" (tip/sleeve)? are you sure about that?

marc

jpschust · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2004, 12:42:16 PM »

im not absolutely sure, but im PRETTY sure, I've never bothered to try it (doesn't hold much pracitcal value to me), but I think you can. my guess, knowing darren's clientel, is that they aren't using phantom power no matter what the connector- most of his stuff is going to lower end stealthers...

leegeddy · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2004, 12:49:24 PM »

>>im not absolutely sure, but im PRETTY sure,

you can't. Phantom power is across 3 terminals. Phantom voltage is across Pin 2 respect to ground and Pin 3 respect to ground.

>>my guess, knowing darren's clientel, is that they aren't using phantom power no matter what the connector- most of his stuff is going to lower end stealthers...

probably so. but, my answer to his original question was that a condenser mic's full potential will not be reached by using unbalanced connection which leads to the question of how a condensor mic is going to be powered. specs for the AT853a (which can be powered by either a battery or phantom) clearly shows the difference in dynamic range and SPL handling.

marc

jpschust · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2004, 12:53:01 PM »

i stand corrected on the phantom power issue. like i said- never would have any practical application for me at least

fuck you · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2004, 04:08:03 PM »

Quote from: leegeddy on February 22, 2004, 12:40:57 PM

>> you can run phantom through a 1/4" jack if you really want to

through an UNBALANCED 1/4" (tip/sleeve)? are you sure about that?

marc

Hello,

I was asking if I were to cut an XLR off an Audio Technica cardioid mic and connected the + to tip and - and ground to ground if it would impact the potential of the mic.

I believe the mic is an AT 831. www.zzounds.com has them cheap.

fuck you · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2004, 04:10:04 PM »

Quote from: jpschust on February 22, 2004, 12:42:16 PM

im not absolutely sure, but im PRETTY sure, I've never bothered to try it (doesn't hold much pracitcal value to me), but I think you can. my guess, knowing darren's clientel, is that they aren't using phantom power no matter what the connector- most of his stuff is going to lower end stealthers...

I am not planning to sell them. I just saw the low prices at zzounds.com for the 831(?) and thought I could put them on a 1/8 stereo plug with - going to ground.

The mics would then be plugged into a battery box with two 9 volt batterys powering them.

Darren

leegeddy · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2004, 04:31:56 PM »

Quote from: darren01 on February 22, 2004, 04:08:03 PM

Quote from: leegeddy on February 22, 2004, 12:40:57 PM
>> you can run phantom through a 1/4" jack if you really want to

through an UNBALANCED 1/4" (tip/sleeve)? are you sure about that?

marc

Hello,

I was asking if I were to cut an XLR off an Audio Technica cardioid mic and connected the + to tip and - and ground to ground if it would impact the potential of the mic.

I believe the mic is an AT 831. www.zzounds.com has them cheap.

darren, you could get much better performance by using phantom power with those AT831 caps. you'll need the AT8533 bodies or the Samson brand sold by SP.

but, to answer your question...... what you're describing is exactly what SP does with AT caps. they just do it as a stereo configuration. (2 caps > stereo mini)

marc

fuck you · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2004, 06:56:34 PM »

Quote

darren, you could get much better performance by using phantom power with those AT831 caps. you'll need the AT8533 bodies or the Samson brand sold by SP.

Is this phantom power unit going to be small enough to sneak into the big arena shows?

Quote

but, to answer your question...... what you're describing is exactly what SP does with AT caps. they just do it as a stereo configuration. (2 caps > stereo mini)

I figured that they may do it that way.

nickgregory · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2004, 08:06:35 PM »

Quote from: darren01 on February 22, 2004, 06:56:34 PM

Quote
Is this phantom power unit going to be small enough to sneak into the big arena shows?

People do it all the time...either the PS-2 (I think it is) the stand alone phantom box, or the combo Preamp/Phantom boxes, Sonosax, MP-2 or PSP2

fuck you · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2004, 11:54:39 PM »

Quote

People do it all the time...either the PS-2 (I think it is) the stand alone phantom box, or the combo Preamp/Phantom boxes, Sonosax, MP-2 or PSP2

You got a link to that phantom box specs?

nickgregory · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2004, 12:10:52 AM »

http://www.denecke.com/prod04.htm

fuck you · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2004, 01:11:37 AM »

Quote from: nickgregory on February 23, 2004, 12:10:52 AM

http://www.denecke.com/prod04.htm

Thanks for the link.

+T to you.

However, if I would build a battery box with two or more 9 volts wouldn't it work the same way?

Or is the phantom power transformed into AC?

Darren

I know how to take an opamp chip to make it double a batterys voltage (never did it, however).

leegeddy · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2004, 01:22:27 AM »

Quote from: darren01 on February 23, 2004, 01:11:37 AM

Quote from: nickgregory on February 23, 2004, 12:10:52 AM
http://www.denecke.com/prod04.htm

Thanks for the link.

+T to you.

However, if I would build a battery box with two or more 9 volts wouldn't it work the same way?

Or is the phantom power transformed into AC?

Darren

I know how to take an opamp chip to make it double a batterys voltage (never did it, however).

darren;

battery power and phantom power are not the same. phantom power is not AC.

marc

BCostigan · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2004, 07:29:25 AM »

Here's a great page on phantom power:

http://www.walkaboutclearwater.org/sound101/phantom.html

dklein · « **Reply #23 on:** February 26, 2004, 04:05:35 AM »

Quote

darren;

battery power and phantom power are not the same. phantom power is not AC.

marc

Quote

just for further clarity, neither is battery power, or bias current or whatever you want to call it. The only thing that's AC is your music as it gets converted into electrical signals!